Talk:List of environmental laws by country

Spin-off article
This article spins off and reorganizes a substantial portion of the article on Environmental law. As I understand it from that article's talk page, the intention was to create a portal for articles on particular environmental laws, by country. In its current (previous) state, this was too much and disruptive for the parent article. Thus, this spin-off. I recognize there are a lot of redlinks here. Not sure how best to handle that. Suggestions welcome! Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 02:02, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Gaps, future development
There are obviously some major gaps in this list in its current state. Egypt is the only African country included to date. No countries from Central or South America, or the Caribbean are included. The listings for some countries (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK) are more well developed than others, and at some point could be spun off to country-specific articles. A sea of redlinks; much to be done, perhaps one country at a time! Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 10:55, 26 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Note: Additional environmental laws may be found in the 'Environmental law in ...' categories for particular countries, e.g. Category:Environmental law in Australia. Regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 11:35, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I believe that I've completed going through the various categories referenced above; additional article-links added. Regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 11:13, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Move to WikiProject Environment workspace?
Due to the large no. of redlinks, it has been proposed that this page is being moved to a WikiProject Environment workspace. WP tags [were] removed, accordingly, to make way for such a move. Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 20:01, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * WP tags replaced while the move discussion proceeds (see below). DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 22:05, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Requested move
List of environmental laws by country → List of environmental laws by country WikiProject Environment/List of environmental laws by country – Per Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Environment. Seems a sensible idea to me. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 20:20, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Should this become a project work page within WikiProject Environment, such as WikiProject Environment/List of environmental laws by country? Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 21:17, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree. a subpage of the WikiProject is a better place for it. I have amended my request. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 21:46, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * But it should be a forward slash. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 21:47, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't understand why it should be a project article rather than a regular article. Please elaborate. OhanaUnitedTalk page 22:12, 30 November 2012 (UTC


 * We are here to create an encyclopedia for readers. A page mostly of redlinks is of next to no use to readers but of immense value to editors. It should therefore be a part of the project pages rather than being an article. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 22:19, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose. There is nothing wrong with both - a wikiproject and a mainspace list. They serve separate purposes. Apteva (talk) 22:16, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * See my comment above. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 22:19, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Both is needless duplication. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 22:19, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Neutral. I can see arguments both ways on this. In support of the proposed move, there are many redlinks and quite of bit of continuing cleanup that is needed on this list article. In opposition to the proposed move, I can see value in continuing this as a bona fide article. The basic work that went in to developing it, if I understand it correctly, came out of a Campus Ambassador Program project to strengthen coverage of Environmental law on Wikipedia. I respect that work & don't wish to see it having to be done over again. While open to the consensus of interested editors on this, my own orientation on this would be to maintain it in article space & continue to try to build it up. Thanks & kind regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 22:44, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The list will take literally years to work through to turn into articles (but I would like to be proved wrong) so in the meantime there is a collection of redlinks that is of no use to readers. Also, individual [Environmental law in Foo] articles are of far greater importance. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 23:18, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Good point, Alan... I agree. Kind regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 01:12, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I thoroughly agree with that - a list of redlinks is of no use to readers. Apteva (talk) 02:22, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Support. After listening to Alan's rationale, I wholeheartedly agree. OhanaUnitedTalk page 17:25, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * What purpose will this serve the WikiProject? I'm not convinced that just being a list of redlinks is so terrible; some of those laws should be developed (cf. WP:REDLINK). There are certainly some so arcane or legalistic as to actually be useless to readers, but then, that's why I ask how this list will be valuable to the WikiProject? I'm inclined to oppose at this point. --BDD (talk) 19:47, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * They serve as a to-do list for editors. The important ones can be picked out for creation. So if they are of no use to editors what use would they be to readers (especially the arcane ones)? -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 19:58, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I think my concern is that the list can easily serve the same purpose in article form. A sub-list of the ripest targets for creation could be maintained by the WikiProject in its space or on the article's talk page. If your argument is that this is more useful to WPE editors than general readers, I don't really disagree. But as long as it serves some purpose to general readers—and I think it does—I don't like the idea of moving it out of mainspace. --BDD (talk) 20:18, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with BDD that the article does serve a useful function, redlinks notwithstanding. Over the last weeks working on it, it has gotten markedly better in my humble opinion than in its original form, including identifying and adding in related article-links not in the earlier version. In its present form, there are several country-specific lists that I can see potentially spinning off. Some of the countries, with the names of the laws all in a foreign language, I find less useful - but still of some value. With them, I would hope that, over time, appropriate English-language names could be substituted. But I agree with Alan that this would not be an overnight proposition. My leaning has gone back and forth through this discussion, but I still lean towards keeping it in its present form for now. Regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 22:19, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * x2 The way I see it is that the utility of an article to readers diminishes exponentially from: an article (with prose) → an article with an embedded list → an article with an embedded list consisting of redlinks → a list consisting mainly of redlinks. This means that the utility of this list to readers is vanishingly small. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 22:28, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

FYI, the vision among the original creators of this material was for the Environmental law article to serve as a 'portal' for all Wikipedia articles on that topic, including country-specific laws. Would an 'Index' or 'Outline' of environmental laws by country serve such a function better than a 'List'? Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 22:26, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * This is common problem with WP: newbies come along, add some stuff and then leave. Regular editors then have to waste thier time and clean up the mess. Note that I have now put a {globalise} tag on it. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 22:48, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't recommend putting it under "Outline", as it is an unresolved dispute and could risk being deleted at any moment. OhanaUnitedTalk page 23:00, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Don't tempt by talking about deletion... -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 23:06, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * In WP parlance in is not an index, or an outline, or a portal. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 23:06, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

It seems that there is no consensus at this time on the proposed action (rename and move). I would suggest that the proposal be closed with a No consensus finding at this time. Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 10:52, 10 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll notify the law WikiProject to get their input. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 22:05, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

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