Talk:List of ethnic enclaves in North American cities

Untitled
Isn't there a Russian enclave in LA too?


 * There really isn't a clearly delimited, mostly Russian enclave in LA in the same manor as some of the other listed ethic neighborhoods in the List. There is a small concentration of mostly Jewish Russians and the businesses catering to them mixed in with the regular businesses (with a large number targeting a gay clientele) in the West Hollywood, California area.

This list will grow very long even if we stick to specifically named areas. Should we sort by ethnicity, not list them alphabetically? Rmhermen 13:19, Mar 3, 2004 (UTC)

This is not really a list of enclaves, it is a list of parts of cities where most people are from one ethnic group. There is a serious difference. Mark Richards 20:25, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
 * This is true, but the phrase ethnic enclave does kind of have some currency in the American media. Any ideas about what to replace it with? jengod 21:13, May 17, 2004 (UTC)

"Ethnic communities", perhaps?


 * I like that. Anyone opposed to a move? Mark Richards 05:00, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Ethnic enclaves is a term currently in use, even in acedemic circles. There is no need to move this page. Rmhermen 13:27, May 27, 2004 (UTC)


 * Well, it may have some usage, but in academic circles it usually refers to ethnic communities that are completely surrounded and often unable to easily move in and out of the enclaves. I think the title is misleading. Mark Richards 16:05, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

Well, if you don't visualize Checkpoints Charlie and armed guards, some of these do fill those requirements. Little old ladies in Koreatown may do everything they need to do in Koreatown and really *never* leave. This is an interesting article that puts the Amero-Canadian use of the term in context: Ethnic Enclaves in the Urbanism of America; also: SuburbanReport/SubReport.pdf pdf: The New Ethnic Enclaves in America’s Suburbs. Here's an interesting multimedia presentation from the Canadian govt: Diversity and Community: Ethnic Enclaves and Segregation I'm going to put a note on the page dissecting enclaves for those not familiar with the North American use of the term. jengod 17:51, May 27, 2004 (UTC)

P.S. I don't think it should be moved either. jengod 18:09, May 27, 2004 (UTC)


 * Well, with the new explanation of the use of the term (I was not aware of that usage, except as a comparison to 'real' enclaves) I don't have a problem with it. Thanks, Mark Richards 19:22, 27 May 2004 (UTC)


 * Quite frankly, I think the introduction downplays the historical aspect of some of these neighborhoods too much. At least for the early Asian ethnic neighborhoods here in the LA area (Chinatown and Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, California date from before 1900), the neighborhoods were very much the results of the combination of discrimination, prohibitions against land ownership, and deed restrictions. For the modern suburban ethnic neighborhoods (such as the Chinatown of Monterey Park, California) they represent a voluntary association with people of similiar cultures, but that was only after the changes in Civil Rights of the 1960's, plus the great influx of Asians after the severe restrictions on emmigration to the US was eased.


 * Also, since the word "enclave" has a different connotation for the general public from the way that academics may use the term, this article probably should be "ethnic neighborhoods" or "ethnic communities". gK [[User talk:GK|&iquest;?]] 14:57, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * GK, please feel free to rewrite or amend the intro to include info on the historic nature of some of these neighborhoods. Also, I prefer enclave, I believe that's how it's described, but my second choice would be neighborhood as community does not necessarily imply a certain place. jengod 20:04, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)


 * I was going to sneak in a one-sentance ammendment, but I couldn't make it work, so I will probably try to completely replace the opening paragraph with a longer explanation.


 * One reason that I thought about using community is that it could be used to expand the list into a more broader topic than just urban enclaves that would include places like Solvang, California. After some reflection, it is probably best to keep this list restricted to urban neighborhoods, although a list of ethnic communities and regions (to cover the Amish, etc.) might be a useful addition to the Wikipedia. gK [[User talk:GK|&iquest;?]] 04:22, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Rural ethnic enclaves
We are missing the ethnic enclaves in rural towns of the Great Plains. One can tell the ethnicity by the flags on the water towers. Most of these towns were established in the late 19th c, and have retained their ethnic enclave status, islands of community in a sea of grass, they probably outnumber urban enclaves in numbers, but not population. --Stbalbach 04:36, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Unnamed "enclaves"
There are some places that are not labelled "Little xxx" or "xxxtown" but have significant ethnic population or business presence. Those include the Hacienda Heights-Diamond Bar area and Cerritos-Artesia area in Los Angeles County, California. Both have significant Chinese and Korean presence. There are also material Chinese presence in Irvine, California. A couple of Japanese strip malls are located in Costa Mesa, California.


 * Also, in San Diego, California, there is a predominantly Asian area on Convoy Street in Kearny Mesa. The majority of businesses here are Korean, but there is also Japanese, Chinese, Thai and Vietnamese presences here. Since there is no name for this section of town, I simply placed it in between Chinatowns and Japantowns (to keep the list alphabetic, and since there is no distinction such as purely Korean). - signed by anon IP

Bias
There seems to be some sort of bias against seattle, many of these little(insert ethnic city)are in seattle but mostly I see nyc l.a. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.121.187.137 (talk) 23:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Florida
I'm not sure what the criteria are for "ethnic enclaves," but I wanted to suggest Ybor City, Tampa (Cuban, former industrial cigar-making district worked largely by Cuban immigrants), Tarpon Springs, Florida (Greek), and Vietnamtown/Little Vietnam, Orlando, FL (very concentrated Vietnamese community, including some Vietnamese parking signs, along SR 50/Colonial Blvd.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.0.1.182 (talk) 13:44, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

List needs trimming and retitling
I've removed many items from different sections which are not "named ethnic enclaves"; ethnic enclaves they may be, but they're not named as such, i.e. Little Italy, Chinatown, Little Germany etc. Also many of these are actual cities/towns, not just enclaves within them, and it's not clear that they're ethnic in character but only named e.g. the many Germantowns. Also some do not seem to be in cities, hence "List of named ethnic enclaves in North America", period; more cleanup is needed and, as with the Germantowns, I don't know if they're actually ethnic or not, so participation from people in those states/provinces is needed. Obviously also Native American/First Nations reservations and reserves within cities should not be included. Between vagueness and clutter, more cleanup is needed.Skookum1 (talk) 17:48, 17 October 2010 (UTC)


 * The article is better than it was in 2010. The list is about enclaves, communities and concentrations of certain ethnic groups in places. Germantowns tend to be more historic than current. And some Native American/First Nations areas in cities are relevant. I noticed two additions Jewtown, Georgia and Jewtown, Pennsylvania (now called "West Penn", not far from largely Bavarian Catholic settled St. Marys, Pennsylvania) were removed: the first one was settled by two Jewish people, but it has no sources to back up the claim it was ever a Jewish community, same with Jewtown, PA which is possible, still no sources for any mentions. I may heard of an Orthodox Jewish section of Whittier, California here in Southern CA, except it is not verifiable to be put in the article. Adinneli (talk) 17:18, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Name - move?

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page not moved. harej 02:18, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

List of named ethnic enclaves in North American cities → List of ethnic enclaves in North America &mdash; The meaning of "named ethnic enclaves" in the current title says to me things that are ethnically-descripted; Little Warsaw, Chinatown, Little Yokohama etc. But the list at present (other than what I've recently deleted) is anywhere that has an ethnic profile; even limiting this to cities only, it's quite a ridiculous concept; the whole of New York City is a grouping of ethnic enclaves, much the same is true about Chicago or Boston or Montreal or Toronto, and even in the more jumbled Canadian and California cities somewhere it's hard to draw the line as to which area is which. There are also notable small towns that are decidedly ethnic in composition, e.g. the many Norwegian and Swedish concentration places in Minnesota, North Dakota, Iowa, Saskatchewan/Manitoba, Little Denmark in New Brunswick, and the Dutch/German concentrations in BC's Lower Mainland and neighbouring Whatcom County in the US. So what is this list supposed to be about? Ethnic neighbourhoods in CITIES, or just ethnic concentrations? And a high population doesn't mean an "enclave", which suggests ghettoization and visible street/commercial ethnic identity; so does Edmonton's preponderant Ukrainian population make it an "enclave" (i.e. is the whole city an enclave?) or does this apply to neighbourhoods only? For now I've been takign "named ethnic enclaves" to mean "places taht are named after their ethnic omposition" but given the vast jumble of what's on here, I'm no longer sure (in which case my recent dedits should be restored, but then the list MUST be renamed).Skookum1 (talk) 17:33, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Suggested shortened/simplified and more general title: List of ethnic enclaves in North America.Skookum1 (talk) 17:41, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I am ok with the proposal except a couple of things.
 * I think we shoudl use a clearer word than enclave. My guess is a lot of our readers are going to have to bust out the dictionary to find out what an enclave is.
 * I am not sure how much that will expand the list. Depending on the scope it could cause the list to get pretty big so we need to make the scope clear. (ie. just because a City has a lot of people from Ireland doesn't make it an enclave)
 * Do we count all the Indian reservations
 * what about the US protectorates and territories like Guam and Puerto rico. --Kumioko (talk) 20:02, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * "enclave" is a perfectly cromulent word. It's not particularly obscure, any moreso than "ethnic".  Powers T 12:41, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed, but it does imply a discrete boundary and/or specifically-delineated area, not just an ethnic concentration. There's also a hint of exclusion/inclusion in its overtones.  List of named ethnic neighbourhoods in North American cities (or, if you wish, using American spelling "neighborhood") might be safer in technical terms "but"....and @Kumioko in the same way it's idiomatic that Native Americans/Aboriginal peoples are not "visible minorities", Indian Reservations (Reserves in Canada) are technically separate from the municipalities encompassing them (or which in some cases they may contain...).  Suffice to say that a See Also to List of Indian Rservations in the United States and List of Indian Reserves in Canada would work just fine.  Other than coming up with a definition of who/what is included, the word "enclave" is a bit on the hyperbolic side in most cases.  It's not like they're surrounded by walls or anything....Skookum1 (talk) 01:09, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * An ethnic enclave need not be surrounded by walls. It's a common use of the word "enclave", extrapolated from the original use of a territory surrounded by a different sovereign entity.  Powers T 12:47, 28 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment this list seems wrong. Glancing at it, entire cities are listed, when only a district within them is an enclave. Perhaps all the cities should be removed, and only neighboorhoods should remain (ie. Little Tokyo, Chinatown, etc are ethnically named ethnic enclaves within cities) 76.66.199.238 (talk) 05:34, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I assume "named" is in the title to limit the scope to avoid adding that little area down on 5th street between Elm and Main that everyone knows is populated by Poles but doesn't have a real "name". Powers T 12:41, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment though I proposed a name change, I tend to agree with you; but if we keep "named" in the title then there's tons of "weeds" to be gotten rid of. And does it remain limited to cities (including I suppose towns, villages etc - in Alaska a "city" is even 200 people...legally that is)?  And what about places which are known for their ethnic identity, like Birch Hills, Saskatchewan (Norwegians), Gimli, Manitoba (Icelanders) and Little Denmark, New Brunswick?  The latter is "named", Gimli is sort-of-named, Birch Hills clearly isn't.  But what about the various "Germantowns"?  Are these actually ethnic German?  And as whole towns, are they enclaves?Skookum1 (talk) 01:23, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Not moved - so what's a "named ethnic enclave"?
Great, not moved. Would somebody please care to clarify the title, then....does it mean that places have to have a name, any name, or is it named as an ethnic enclave, i.e. because of the ethnicity, label etc? This page either needs renaming, or very serious pruning....Skookum1 (talk) 06:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Other additions and inclusions
I made a few of them over a hour, and hopefully fits in the criteria of an useful edit. Wherever there is an ethnic social community organization, a sizable population-percentage community, and/or enclaves/ neighborhoods/sections, I believe they should be added to the directory to make it more useful. Thanks for reading and any questions or suggestions are welcomed. 71.102.30.215 (talk) 22:52, 26 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Two similarly named places in Penn. (Fox Township, Elk County, Pennsylvania (Irishtown and Kersey) and Fox Township, Sullivan County, Pennsylvania (Jersey and Shunk) named for Irish and Scottish settlers in the state's Appalachia region) are examples of ethnic enclaves or concentrations, but they would be considered British or "American" (by ethnicity) as well. The Fox in Elk County (3,600 residents) about 90 miles north of Pittsburgh (considered more rural) has a large number of German/Swiss/Bavarian Catholics, while the Fox in Sullivan County has 10% Asian (the only considerable racial minority out of 500 residents) but is 120 miles north of Philadelphia and further away from a major city. Adinneli (talk) 19:51, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Table
Could we turn this massive list into a table so people could sort the information by either location or ethnicity? Samhuddy (talk) 16:15, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 2

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Moved. Per discussion, new title better reflects the article's content. -- Hadal (talk) 21:17, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

List of named ethnic enclaves in North American cities → List of ethnic enclaves in North American cities – I first proposed getting rid of the term "named" in this title over three years ago; the suggestion was turned down as "not moved". But I fail to see why a whole slew of things since added, in addition to those already here there years ago, that were not "named ethnic enclave", continue to be added to the list. That term would seem to have been intended for areas called Chinatown, Little Italy, Koreatown and so on, not just for places like Ballard (in Seattle, a Scandinavian area, though not exclusively) or College Heights or wherever that doesn't specify the ethnicity in the name. The name of the list should reflect what's on it, and currently it doesn't. The term "enclave" is problematic but in the expression "ethnic enclave" it doesn't have the geopolitical or exclusionary context of the word by itself, so I can live with it; the term "neighbourhood" may be preferable as in List of ethnic neighbourhoods in North American cities and that is a second option for a renaming. Some that are on here are just commercial concentrations where the resident population isn't actually as concentrated as the ethnic element so "ethnic enclave" and "ethnic neighbourhood" really is "concentrations of ethnically-defined commerce" but that's too cumbersome as a title. So not wanted to confuse the matter too much, and also observing that compiling such lists is really a form of WP:Original research, for now I think it's important that the "named ethnic enclave" should be replaced by "ethnic enclave" only, unless some better term is in the offing. Sure, places like Brockton and Compton and Harlem and Inglewood have names but that wasn't the original intent of this list; "ethnically-named enclaves" was the original intent, it's since become incredibly muddied as to content. For now the title is incredibly misleading and incorrect and should be changed...to something.Skookum1 (talk) 21:00, 31 December 2013 (UTC) Skookum1 (talk) 21:00, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
 * comment also to note that there are cases where an entire town is notably ethnic; and that this list should be for "within cities" and not for cities as a whole, e.g. Chicago being known for being Irish and Polish, for example.  And there are some cases where "ethnic enclaves in" are in towns, not cities, as with many small historical Chinatowns and Franco-New England communities.  That this list exists at all is OR, but if there's to be consistency, then it should have a parameters about that consistency.  Whatever the heck it is.  Otherwise "List of cities with large FOO [ethnicity] populations" broken up into sublists is all that can really be citable; not that lists need citations..... right now it's a hobblegobble, like the African-American communities subsection, and nearly anywhere could conceivably be on it, e.g. Trail BC for being notably Italian, or any number of towns and cities on the Canadian Prairies being notably Ukrainian (but also German and English at the same time).  When is an enclave an enclave?  Should this list even exist at all?Skookum1 (talk) 23:40, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
 * comment: List should stay as namerd and be trimmed down to named locations (Chinatowns, Little Italies, etc.) Rmhermen (talk) 03:42, 1 January 2014 (UTC)


 * That's what I would think, but given that "named" part has either been misinterpreted or ignored, should we be policing it with a chainsaw in future?Skookum1 (talk) 04:46, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Support: Named isn't doing anything for the title p  b  p  15:11, 24 January 2014 (UTC)


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Reasons for ethnic and cultural enclaves
Historically, racial and ethnic segregation determined where minorities and groups live, but today the phenomenon known as "Residential area of choice" shows some people decide to live among a similar cultural group they are members of, or sometimes their decision to live in a place if there are clubs and social rec activities among their kind.

Now, I want to discuss 5 things I seek in a city or town: 1. I have mild autism, 2. a Liberal Democrat, 3. a maiseiophile (likes pregnant women), 4. in my age group (ages 18-39) and 5. a vegetarian. Where should I move to where I'm the most comfortable, where my lifestyle and culture fits right in, and I'm not the minority to "stand out"? These places are known as "aspie centers" where people with autism and Asperger's are thought to be numerous (high-tech industrial-economic centers), communities where most registered voters are Democrats or gravitate to social-progressive cultural liberalism, large fertility clinics (IVF and sperm/ovum bank methods) and many single or open-relationship women when pregnant, college towns or universities with many young adults reside nearby, and some may be home to religious groups like some sects of Hindus and Buddhists, Jainists, Mormons/Latter-Day Saints (OK, not really vegetarians and more conservative Republican, abstains from tobacco and alcohol, and practice large-size families with many children), and Seventh-Day Adventists form plurality or majority populations - they practice vegetarianism. Here are the places I would want to relocate to and reside in.

In California-
 * 1. Sacramento (with Univ of Cal Davis).
 * 2. Marin county-Sonoma/Napa valleys.
 * 3. Univ of Cal. Berkeley-Oakland (Alameda/Contra Costa)
 * 4. San Jose-Santa Clara (includes Santa Cruz).
 * 5. West L.A.-South Bay Los Angeles county.
 * 6. Riverside-San Bernardino (Loma Linda and Corona).

Elsewhere- I could add New York City (specifically Manhattan), San Francisco-San Mateo CA, San Diego CA and Orange County CA as a whole, but it's rather expensive nowadays or gentrification changed the socio-economic profile of these areas. 12.218.47.124 (talk) 20:33, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 7. Miami-Dade, Florida (plus Miami Beach or South Beach).
 * 8. Bridgwater-Paterson, New Jersey.
 * and 9. Massapequa-Long Island, New York.


 * Diversity tends to be most centered in urban/metro areas, due to more kinds of people relocate to a certain place for economic reasons. New York City is probably the most diverse major city in North America: it is now 15% Dominican, 12% Chinese and 10% Indian, along with being 1/4 Black (African-American and Afro-Caribbean), has up to a million Puerto Ricans (US citizens on arrival from their territory Puerto Rico) and a history of Irish, German, Jewish (of many nationalities), Italian and Polish neighborhoods. I read about Dayton, Ohio's Oregon District has a large Black and Latino American presence, as well gay/LGBT bars due to air force base personnel from the nearby Wright-Patterson AFB. 2605:E000:100D:C32F:FC2C:3C87:9E6D:7D17 (talk) 01:59, 8 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Good God, talk about identifying with the wrong things. Aspergers is not an identity, it is a condition. And before you sound off at me, I have it too. But it's not a bloody identity! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.52.209.206 (talk) 20:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Keep United Kingdom, esp England in the article
English and British Americans are an ethnicity, nationality and culture, just like "Americans" who only identify with the USA as their main ancestry. Upper-income members are also known as WASPs, the term can have negative or deragatory meanings, but it simply means White Anglo-Saxon Protestants. They tend to be the top 100 wealthiest communities or zip codes in the country, examples being Malibu-Santa Monica-west side L.A., Orange County CA (the coasts and "south county"), and northern San Diego with nearby areas in San Diego ("north") county. 12.218.47.124 (talk) 15:25, 3 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The UK section, as usual when Scots and Welsh are lumped into it, ignores them. The list is thoroughly anglocentric... there are a number of particularly Scottish areas in North America, but the British label, as usual buries and hides them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.52.209.206 (talk) 19:49, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

San Gabriel Valley claim
Unable to verify claim of "largest Chinese enclave outside of China".

This claim was added in 22 November 2017 revision (by an IP user) without any citation. The citation was added in a sequence of 13 April 2019 edits by 67.49.85.100.

I did not find the claim supported by the text content of the source. I listened to the video, and did not hear it, but I may have missed it. If the claim is actually present, a quote should be added to the citation. If not present, then maybe the claim should be changed to a similar claim that is supported, perhaps largest Chinese enclave in U.S. or North America ... or just keep looking. Fabrickator (talk) 21:54, 14 March 2022 (UTC)