Talk:List of extreme points of U.S. states and territories

&mdash; J I P | Talk 07:56, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

California
Is it just me or is the Western most point of California actually on the western edge of Sugarloaf Island near Ferndale, CA? This instead of the listed Cape Mendocino. Can someone check up on this?

This article could possibly be turned into a chart, with each state's information in rows and the extreme points (and the states) in columns.

Since people who are interested in such arcana are likelier to be found here than just about anywhere, I would like to bring up the little-known truth of California's northernmost point. No, it's not a northernmost line, the 42nd Parallel which everyone assumes to be the northernmost extreme of the Golden State (or, if you're Oregonian, the Litterbug State). If you look closely at a Google representation, the geography that I bring into question here, lies at a position in the vicinity of the Applegate Reservoir, towards the SW corner of Oregon's Jackson County; you can discern a region of the stateline that by some dimly remembered Act of the respective legislatures forms a small scalene triangle, where you would expect a nice straight Boundary Line faithful to the 42nd Parallel that God intended. The northernmost point of California is, I estimate, a full THIRD of a minute of Latitude to the north of the 42nd and it sits very inconveniently up on a mountain, that I'm sure anyone could climb and live to tell the tale, but it is a good 300+ meters UP there. Why????Was this the result of a legislative April Fool's joke? Actually I dimly remember a Huell Howser episode devoted to this, so someone could ask him. Schoolchildren around the globe are waiting for some hero amongst us to elucidate the Lat&Long of this mysterious geographical marvel. — Preceding [[User:Woilorio|Woilorio (talk) 22:44, 5 February 2012 (UTC)]] comment added by Woilorio (talk • contribs) 02:00, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

The unique status of Alaska, state in three hemispheres
This page is interesting trivia, but inaccurate in at least one respect, and inconsistent with other correct Wikipedia pages.

The most easterly point in Alaska, and in the United States, is on Semisopochnoi Island, which lies in the geographic Eastern hemisphere (179.6E). The most westerly point in Alaska, and in the United States, is on Amatignak Island, which is just in the Western hemisphere (approx. 179W), not Attu Island, which is in the Eastern hemisphere.

The separate Wikipedia entries for Semisopochnoi and Amatignac, have it correct.

David Selley


 * Longitude is entirely arbitrary; there is no physical reason for the 180th meridian to be where it is. It's an accident of the time "Britannia ruled the seas."  It makes more sense to ask, "What point is farthest west from the geographical center of the country?"  Where's the westernmost point of Wrangel Island?  Co149 (talk) 06:45, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with this. Location is a matter of perspective. Nobody (in their right mind) in Alaska or the rest of the United States would travel eastward across North America, the Atlantic Ocean, Europe, and Asia just to reach the western end of the Aleutian Islands, despite what the longitude number suggests. The Aleutian Islands are always considered to be west of the rest of the state of Alaska, and it makes the most logical sense to consider Attu Island to be the westernmost point in the state. — Michael Wilson (BS Geography, University of Alaska Fairbanks, 1995; MS Applied Geography, University of North Texas, 2009). Mike5816 (talk) 00:02, 27 March 2011 (UTC)


 * With the exception of my wife, no one would question that I am in my right mind, but I have long regarded Alaska as the easternmost state. Yes, longitude is arbitrary, an accident of history, but by the measurement system we have, it is not ridiculous to regard Attu as "east" of most of the US, including most of Alaska.


 * I gladly acknowledge that it is also reasonable to measure from a "center" point to determine "easterness" and "westerness". But it also cannot be denied that this solution has its limitations, most notably when defining the easternmost point of something that encompasses all 360° of longitude (e.g., Antarctica or the Arctic Ocean or the mid-ocean ridge system).  How does someone in their "right mind" resolve these issues, if not with Greenwich? HuskyHuskie (talk) 03:25, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Name of article
It occurred to me that most articles have United States spelled out, but Talk:U.S._state would seem to indicate "U.S. states" is OK. Шизомби 02:18, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Points over water?
I notice some of the points listed are over water. Would the article be more useful if the extreme land points were also listed? I mention this because people in Minnesota don't generally regard that state as bordering Michigan. Instead, the perception is that it borders Lake Superior. Unless we fish or work on the Great Lakes, we don't always perceive U.S. territorial waters of the Great Lakes as being divided into state territorial waters.

To be consistent, should U.S. territorial waters off of the east coast, west coast, and Gulf of Mexico be divided into state territorial waters, and the extreme points with the water territory be included? 206.53.197.24 (talk) 15:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Fact is the borders of the Great Lakes states extend out into the lakes, and the borders are clearly defined. You can easily see these borders on Google Maps and Live Search Maps. I don't believe territorial waters extending into the oceans and gulfs are as clearly defined. Phizzy (talk) 16:12, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * So, the points over water should remain. However, I don't always see the state borders over waters in other maps, such as printed maps. Wouldn't people visiting this page like to know what are the extreme points on land as well as those on water? They might want to know how far east in a state they can hike, but not swim.  206.53.197.24 (talk) 17:04, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Yea, they don't always show on maps, which leads to the confusion. I do know, however, the state borders show up (over water) on the official Michigan Department of Transportation map. It probably would be a good idea to have both an extreme point over land and over water in those instances where there are both. In your Minnesota example, the two points are pretty close anyway, though: http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCC&cp=48.004912~-89.49214&style=r&lvl=14&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1 Phizzy (talk) 20:49, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I once had a co-worker who used to live in Chicago. When I mentioned the Illinois-Michigan border, he denied that Illinois and Michigan shared a border.  From his point of view, Illinois bordered Lake Michigan. From  my point of view, a small part of the lake was in the NE corner of Illinois.  206.53.193.48 (talk) 12:44, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, your point of view is correct. Many people might believe that Michigan only borders the states of Wisconsin, Indiana, and Ohio, but it borders Minnesota and Illinois as well. Phizzy  17:58, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * BTW, when I posted here earlier, I was 206.53.197.24. Maybe it would be less confusing if logged in even for quick edits. 206.53.193.48 (talk) 20:24, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree that, while Illinois and Michigan clearly share a legal boundary, to state the the "easternmost point of 'Illinois'" is some spot in the middle of Lake Michigan (and with Indiana due south, to boot) is just counterintuitive, and not very helpful, to most people. Per the discussion above, I've gone ahead and distinguished between Illinois' easternmost point over water and easternmost point of land (I wonder if that farmer knows he tills an extreme point?) HuskyHuskie (talk) 03:14, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Proposed merge
I have tagged both Extreme points of Massachusetts and Extreme Points of Texas for suggestion to be merged here. They are sub-titles related to this article. It does not make any sense to have this article, that failed to be deleted, to stand and someone continue adding other states, and possibly possessions (and D.C.), that are sure to await nomination for deletion.
 * I like the information and set up on the article for Texas and it would seem a good idea to try to find conformity and consensus with the best one and to facilitate other created solo related articles to be moved here. Someone might take an interest in building a real nice article.
 * I do not think I connected all the talk pages if someone would look at that. Otr500 (talk) 07:27, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I see the discussion pages are connected. Otr500 (talk) 07:29, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with the merge, but I do think that they should be "merged", not just blanked and redirected. Griffinofwales (talk) 19:11, 15 July 2010 (UTC)


 * You will have to enlighten me. A blank and redirect would not be a merge correct? I just think that several small related articles, especially with relevant information, could be merged (all pertinent information included) to created a better single article. Otr500 (talk) 22:38, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Correct. Would the table look crowded if we added the extra information? Griffinofwales (talk) 17:01, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it would become quite crowded. We would also need to find the pertinent information for the other 48 states.Lbparker40 (talk) 14:02, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Latitude/Longitude for each point
I would like to see the latitude and longitude coordinates for each of the point be added. The Alaska line is a good example of this. I would be willing to add these in if someone could find a good source for them, even if it is just on a state by state basis. This would provide Minimum Bounding Rectangles for each of the states. --RossO (talk) 19:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Does Google Earth count as a "good source"? If you can find the extreme points of each state on Google Earth, it will tell you the coordinates. —Reelcheeper (talk) 16:49, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Massachusetts
Why does the article list Nauset Light in Eastham as the easternmost point? I'm looking at the DeLorme Massachusetts atlas, and it shows Nauset Light at 69°57′ W while parts of Nauset Beach in Orleans and Chatham are east of 69°56′ W. I can't believe recent erosion at Nauset has been so bad as to move the beach a full minute of longitude. BeIsKr (talk) 07:08, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Pennsylvania
Saying that the southernmost point of Pennsylvania is the southern border with WV and VA is an oversimplification. The legal boundary is NOT a simple line of latitude. To quote the Wikipedia article on the Mason-Dixon line: "The Maryland–Pennsylvania boundary is an east–west line with an approximate mean latitude of 39°43′20″ N (Datum WGS 84). In reality, the east–west Mason–Dixon line is not a true line in the geometric sense, but is instead a series of many adjoining line segments, following a path between latitude 39°43′15″ N and 39°43′23″ N." The legal boundary is defined by the milestones set in place by Mason and Dixon in the 18th Century. Google Maps, f'rinstance, presents this rather accurately, and if you zoom in on the border you will see that it zig-zags slightly in some places. I'm just a geek about such things.... PurpleChez 5/31/14 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.118.65.34 (talk) 19:19, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Improve sorting
I suggest that the coord, where given, be the first item in each cell. I believe this would automatically make two of the columns sort geographically; the other two could be made to sort properly by using sort (or perhaps by just reordering the parameters in coord; I don't think this would work, but if it does, it would be preferable). YBG (talk) 05:37, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

boundary wobbles
The western boundary with Canada is defined not by the 49° line but by the markers placed by a joint survey, which wobble along that line. From the International Boundary Commission website, I infer that the northernmost point of Washington is Monument 35, 49.0026°N, -122.21447°W; that of Idaho is Monument 213, 49.00089°N, -116.23619°W; that of Montana is Monument 266 49.00114°N, -114.36095°W; that of North Dakota is the segment between Monuments 810 49.00057°N, -97.70169°W and 811 49.00057°N, -97.67984°W. —Tamfang (talk) 21:55, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Are the segments between monuments taken as great circles? If so, ND-north is the midpoint between 810 and 811. —Tamfang (talk) 23:35, 7 April 2023 (UTC)