Talk:List of famous baritones

Luther Vandross is VERY much a tenor

How is Dr Dre a baritone?

Famous pop singers and their range
Someone deleted the whole section of pop singers citing WP:OR policy so I decided to restore it for further research on my user page: Doxent 16:24, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The list of famous baritones in popular music is completely ridiculous. I'm not familiar with quite a few of the many of the names, but here are a few I take complete exception with:

Tony Bennett - a tenor, I have heard him sing clear Bb4s and he generally has a high tessitura. He sings in a crooning style usually associated with baritones, but he is (or was in his prime) a tenor. Chris Cornell - a very high rock tenor with a dark tone of voice. Tom Jones - a tenor (listen to the B4 that he sustains for about ten seconds at the end of 'Thunderball'. The guy likely could have been a classical tenor if he had persued it). Paul McCartney - he is a tenor, he is not 'sometimes' a baritone. This is ridiculous. I've scarcely heard him sing below C3, and his low range is generally rather husky and not strong. He is very obviously a tenor. Bruce Springsteen - a tenor, when he sings in a lower register it's generally on quieter accoustic songs for which projection is not nessassary. But the man's voice is so far removed from classical music that it's silly to use these terms to describe his voice.

This list needs serious revision because it is terribly misleading and incorrect. Timmerbo 25 October 2006

Original Research vv. Ranges
According to the NOR rule:

"An edit counts as original research if it does any of the following:


 * It introduces a theory or method of solution;
 * It introduces original ideas;
 * It defines new terms;
 * It provides or presumes new definitions of pre-existing terms;
 * It introduces an argument, without citing a reputable source for that argument, that purports to refute or support another idea, theory, argument, or position;
 * It introduces an analysis or synthesis of established facts, ideas, opinions, or arguments in a way that builds a particular case favored by the editor, without attributing that analysis or synthesis to a reputable source;
 * It introduces or uses neologisms, without attributing the neologism to a reputable source."

Discerning one's vocal range doesn't meet any of these criteria. To a proper musician this is a matter of simple observation. Since the guideline "does not prohibit editors with specialist knowledge from adding their knowledge to Wikipedia," to claim "original research" is out of line.

CleffedUp 09:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * You are selectively reading the rule.


 * When one of our editors (in this case, you) listens to a musical piece with an analytical, trained ear, and determines what one or more musical notes in it is; one is originally analysing a piece. Original research can take a number of forms, depending on the discipline it pertains to ...it typically ... involves direct ... observation of the researched subject, e.g. ...in the field. Original analysis is original research.


 * The problem is, Wikipedia is not the place for original research, this is an official policy. Citing sources and avoiding original research are inextricably linked: the only way to demonstrate that you are not doing original research is to cite reliable sources which provide information that is directly related to the topic of the article, and to adhere to what those sources say. The source must be from a reliable journal, publication or website. Please note, Blogs do not count to this end. No original research is one of "three content-governing policies" on Wikipedia. They are 'rules', or 'laws' on what you can and cannot put in an article. The other two are Neutral point of view and Verifiability.


 * You have broken (perhaps accidentally) one or more of these policies. If you choose to continue adding such content or placing such content back in to Wikipedia when it has been taken out of that particular article; it would most probably be considered bad faith editing on your part. Bad faith editing is an act for which it is quite possible to be banned for, especially if you add bad faith edits after being warned for it 3 times - some users consider it very similar to, or even identical to vandalism.


 * Sincerely,


 * --I&#39;ll bring the food 18:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Im an entertainer and i know what i can sing and i cant sing anything convincingly that is above baratone range. Tom jones Englebert humperdink, paul mc cartney Rod stewart Toney bennet frank sinartra elvis presely, charlie rich Elton john are all tenors. Just because of the resistra they sing in .Its higher than a baratone .On the other hand Roger whittiker ,charlie pride ,johnny cash ( i can hit all his low notes and im a baritone remember) Dean martin ,Roger miller are all Baratones.Maybe cash is low baritone .Anyway we cant compare singing syle to classical opera because it comes from a different place.But if you are talking about the notes they sing then what i say goes.I know what im talking about i do it for a living. Now make up and be friends .who cares anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.131.79 (talk) 07:01, 15 September 2009 (UTC)