Talk:List of fictional butlers

Naming
Should they be by first name or last name? I notice both - and that Alf Stokes from You Rang M'Lord is under both, but I don't know which should be deleted. 86.136.92.103 (talk) 19:39, 14 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I propose we go by first name/title as it is known in the works, for three reasons. First, many entries seem to only have one name to go on, very often their first name anyway.


 * Second, since fictional butlers seem to be known more often than not by their first names, it would be more user-friendly to go by the name used in the story, but also including instances of titles and such - i.e. we alphabetize by the full name of each butler, e.g. 'The Butler' as opposed to 'Butler, The', or 'Mr. Butlertron' as opposed to 'Butlertron, Mr.' Being more user-friendly should also (hopefully) reduce the likelihood of a user mistakenly thinking a particular butler isn't on the list and making a duplicate in the wrong place (e.g. the average user and/or fan probably wouldn't try to find or add Sebastian Michaelis, whose surname is rarely mentioned in the anime, under M).


 * Third, the list seems to largely be following this method already, moreso than the latter, so keeping this system means less work for whoever helps tidy it up. Mousenight (talk) 22:47, 16 June 2019 (UTC)


 * I came to this page and noticed that some characters who are more well known by their last names than their first names were difficult to find. Many fictional butlers are known by their last names. This was the norm in days past and still is in certain genres. I've organized characters by last name who, to my knowledge, are best known by those names, and added sort keys so that everything sorts properly. Miles26 (talk) 03:40, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Merge proposal
I'm not up on the distinctions (if any?) between valets and butlers, but it seems the "Famous fictional valets" section from Valet is mostly already included in List of fictional butlers. Can someone clarify? - Bellhalla 16:49, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The list of non-butlers was originally in the main butler article, but it was moved to the valet article. A valet is a personal attendant, while a butler is the chief servant of the house.  Though they're often confused, they're not the same job. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.170.224.208 (talk • contribs).
 * Voting against the merge as well. Not the same job. Quill 09:24, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * As far as merging "Famous butlers" into "Butlers' goes, I'm in favor of it. As of this date, "Famous" has 22 entries vs. 27 for "Butlers". It would be easy to combine the lists and weed out duplicates. But I agree that "Valets" should be a separate list. ChrisWinter 16:50, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No, butlers and valets are different professions. Merging them is misleading. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.170.224.208 (talk • contribs).


 * I laughed out loud when I saw that there was a list of famous fictional bulters and a list of fictional butlers. How does one know where to look? I vote to merge famous fiction butlers into fictional butlers.

Maybe then create a list of fictional valets as its own entry. Certainly I vote against the proposal to merge famous fictional valets into fictional bulters. (And include all the valets from Gosford Park?) 220.253.38.254 02:58, 8 October 2006 (UTC) [And that was me, RoseWill 03:00, 8 October 2006 (UTC)]

Ahh, whoops. I missed checking the talkpage. Overeager! I'll unmerge valet. :) --Quiddity 02:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that a merger makes sense. The list of fictional butlers is a lot larger. More importantly, even though a valet is not the same thing as a butler, a lot of fictional characters are mentioned in both lists: Mervyn Bunter, Alfred Pennyworth, Hobson, Passepartout, Mr. Belvedere, Desmond, Jeeves, and so on. Just look through the names. In fiction, the difference between valets and a butlers isn't as clear as it is in the real world. --82.171.70.54 (talk) 12:37, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

(non-admin closure)
 * Comment. Valets and butlers are distinct. Keep them separate. Xxanthippe (talk) 21:27, 30 October 2011 (UTC).
 * In fiction, it's more difficult to keep them apart. Maybe a solution would be to put them in the same table, but add a column that indicates whether the person is a butler and/or valet? This would prevent users from adding, for example, Alfred Pennyworth to the butler table. They won't think 'oh, he's missing, I'll add him', but they will see that apparently he's a valet not a butler. --82.171.70.54 (talk) 19:12, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Changes
Added Ianto Jones to the list, because he's in "Category: fictional butlers" but not this list. Also, I noticed that the way things were alphabetically ordered was a but iffy. Some names get their places on the list based on the first name, while others get it based on their last name. I put Ianto in based on his first name, is that wrong?

Convert to table ?
Maybe a table format would work? -- User:Docu


 * I agree. Also, the actor(s) names should probably be mentioned. I was looking for the movie where Anthony Hopkins plays a butler, which turns out to be The Remains of the Day. In the list it only says: Stevens - in Remains of the Day. --82.171.70.54 (talk) 02:44, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Three years later, was looking for the movie with Anthony Hopkins again. This time I found the movie faster, because of my own comment here. --82.171.70.54 (talk) 22:29, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I have converted the bullet list to a table format. Also removed some errors and added some (voice) actor names. --82.171.70.54 (talk) 23:37, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Rosie?
does anyone besides me consider 'rosie the robot maid' innapropriate to this list? if it's kept, the list expands to all fictional servants, and just for an example, mellors, lord chatterley's gamekeeper (and lady chatterley's lover)has to be included. Aleal (talk) 21:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC) User:Toyokuni3 20:59, 30 June 2008

Fictional Servants
As noted by the above comment in June, periodically, this list gets muddled, with the additions of maids and such. Apparently the person who started the list included this description, "A list of fictional butlers, maids, handymen, and related characters," but titled the actual article "List of fictional butlers." That's completely contradictory and makes no sense. So at this point, there are two options. One, stick to butlers (or reasonable facsimiles) and if necessary create a "List of fictional maids." Two, move this to "List of fictional servants," with divisions based on occupation (butler, maid, housekeeper, cook, gardener, chauffeur, footman, etc.) and if necessary an "Other" list for those who are unclassifiable. In such an organization, "List of fictional valets" could be merged without confusion or destroying the distinction between the two, and thus also help get rid of any duplication between the two lists (the list curently on Valet includes Alfred Pennyworth and even identifies him as a butler, plus Hobson from Arthur). Frankly, that strikes me as making the most sense (though with the potential hazard in that broader lists can become harder to maintain). What do others think? -- Aleal (talk) 21:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

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