Talk:List of foreign Serie A players

A. Zavarov, A. Mikhailichenko and S. Aleinikov were Soviets when they played in Italy. They should not be listed under their new countries.

Same thing applies to Yugoslavia, too.


 * If you were born in Bosnia and you played for Yugoslavia you were representing your native country, 'cause at at the time Bosnia didn't exist and for represent her you were obliged to play for Yugoslavia. In other words, people that represented Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Soviet Union or Italy (when San Marino didn't have his own national team), are considered representers of their native actual-countries (this is "expecially true" if you were born in a Federal republic) . --necronudist 08:27, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

There are many Kurdish players played (and still playing) for Turkish national team. Currently there is no an independent Kurdish state. According to your mentality, after a Kurdish state formed, some of those players you mentioned in the list should change. Yugoslavia or Soviet Union were not purily Serbian or Russian state respectively. I strongly beleive that when a Bosnian born player represent Yugoslavia, it does not mean that he represents Serbia. Yugoslavia was not a Serbian state. So Yugoslav Football Team was also not a Serbian Football Team. Yugoslavian National Footbal team represented everyone who lived in Yugoslavia, does not matter Serbian, Croat, Albanian, Bosnian or etc. Yugoslavian or Soviet National Football teams were not a political organisations but national football teams. Football and politics are different. you wrote "this is "expecially true" if you were born in a Federal republic". please explain what did you really mean?


 * There are many Kurdish players played (and still playing) for Turkish national team. Currently there is no an independent Kurdish state.  According to your mentality, after a Kurdish state formed, some of those players you mentioned in the list should change. Turkey isn't a Federal republic. If some day in the 5th millennium Florida separates from USA and became a sovereign state, then all the Florida-born USA national players will be listed as Florida players. 'Cause they represented Florida in a time when they can't, exactly like San Marinense players represented Italy before 1990 'cause San Marino doesn't have its own national team. It's a criterium. Debatable, but a criterium.
 * I strongly beleive that when a Bosnian born player represent Yugoslavia, it does not mean that he represents Serbia. Yugoslavia was not a Serbian state. So Yugoslav Football Team was also not a Serbian Football Team. This is obvious, and I didn't say the contrary. Serbian players represented Serbia inside the Yugoslavia national team. They couldn't make up a Serbian national team, 'cause Serbia was like Florida, was a state into the sovereign republic of (S)FR Yugoslavia.
 * Yugoslavian National Footbal team represented everyone who lived in Yugoslavia, does not matter Serbian, Croat, Albanian, Bosnian or etc. Yugoslavian or Soviet National Football teams were not a political organisations but national football teams.  Football and politics are different. Obvious again. And I'm trying to do that. But you/we're talking about states, and states are political entities.
 * you wrote "this is "expecially true" if you were born in a Federal republic". please explain what did you really mean? I meant that if you were born in (e.g.) Italy (like me...) you're Italian and stop, 'cause Italy isn't an union (federation) of states. But if you were born in a Federal republic you're born in that subnational entity, who's a "piece of the puzzle", and when the Federation (the puzzle) collapse it only remains your original country (the pieces), who's not subordinated to anyone. Bosnia didn't born by the disintegration of Yugoslavia, it was Yugoslavia that born to the union of Bosnia and other countries.
 * However, this discussion can take a century, and we'll always think our way. Take this like a criterium and stop. I understand your poin of view, but I used another criterium who seemed to me more logical. --necronudist 15:02, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry to intervene to your debate, but it is not logical to compare Floridans and Kurds. Please be sensible. Surely Florida and Kurdistan are different. Floridans or those who live in Florida have not different nationality or ethnic origin etc. But Kurds have their own language, culture, history etc than Turks. I think when Zavarov played for USSR, it means he represented USSR. And should not change this fact (even though he is now Ukrainian). He was Soviet at the time, and he should be remembered as Soviet player, just because he played for USSR. This is a fact that Soviet players played in Italy so you should have mentioned this in your list. And I do not understand why you did not list some players as Soviet, or Yugoslav? What is wrong being Soviet? If Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, you should put the facts as they are, not according to your point of view or your criteria. Regards.


 * So, I should have made a list without criteria. To avoid POV. Well... :-) Or maybe I shouldn't follow my criteria but "facts". Uh, very funny. I can't follow any criteria, I must follow facts. In other words: I did wrong 'cause I didn't do what you would. However, edit the list, if you want. Obviously I'll keep reverting. --necronudist 07:12, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Dear Necronudist, sorry to write following, but you are very childish, and stubborn. And stop being sarcastic, act like an adult (if you are). First of all, I do not intend to change your list whatsoever. just want you to know that some of the players mentioned in your list are wrong. (sorry maybe wrong, maybe not). Maybe i am wrong but please be mature. Basically i am saying when those footballers were playing in Italy, they were Soviet or Yugoslavian. This is a fact, isn't it? How can you be sure some of the "former yugoslavian" players are Croat or Bosnian etc. However, if you put their current nationality in the ist, well, you may change Lefter Küçükandonyadis' nationality as Greek as well. He has a greek descent, and played for Turkey, and curently lives in Greece as a Greek national. I did not intend to offend you, but if i did, i apologize.


 * Lefter was born in Turkey and played for Turkish national team (are that facts?). So, for me he's Turk. I can't do genealogical researches for all the players on the list. I repeat: I understand your point of view but I used other criteria. Stop. --necronudist 14:34, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

yes sir yes!...... your kind of dickheads make Wikipedia just a chatroom where nerds exchange their views...  so long kid........

by the way Hameur Bouazza is Algerian national and plays for Watford. He played in the Premiere League for Watford in 2006-07 season. you forget to mentioned him in your other anti-facts list.

Pre 1929
Very impressive work and exrtremely helpful. I wonder if it would be possible to expand the list to include pre-1929 players as well, considering that some of the best players of this period were foreigners (top scorers like Hirzer, Schönfeld, Powolny, etc). Of course in this case they wouldn't be Serie A players, so maybe a separate list would be more precise. Any thoughts? --Karloff lugosi (en) 20:07, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I was thinking about it, but sources are extremely hard to find, and however they're incomplete and not very reliable. --necronudist 20:29, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree on the issue of completeness, but wouldn't it be worthwhile to compile a list that at least includes those players for which reliable information exists? --Karloff lugosi (en) 18:01, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, it will be very hard expecially because one of the criteria is to have played at least one Italian Championship game for the respective club and for almost all of the pre-1929 foreign players is not known how many match they played and IF they played any. However, if you help me I can open a Sandbox, but remember that I'm currently working on the Ligue 1 list. --necronudist 18:20, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

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Riza Lushta
Hi fellow wikipedians.

I strongly believe that Riza Lushta should be moved from Albania section (where actually is placed) to Kosovo section. At the time he was alived, of course, Kosovo still not exists. Anyway, according to the "actual-country-rule" he should be listed there as: 1) he was born in actual Kosovo, 2) he spent youth career in (now) Kosovian Team 4) He did NOT represented Yugoslavia NFT 3) the Mitrovica (Kosovan city) Stadium is named after him.

any counter argument? Riktetta (talk) 10:11, 7 October 2021 (UTC).

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