Talk:List of former toponyms in Drama Prefecture

one biased and nationalist source was used
refer to the talk page of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Slavic_toponyms_for_Greek_places there was an extended discusion about the subject. Seleukosa (talk) 19:16, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Again, no evidence of the alleged bias or nationalism has been shown, and do you dispute that the Slavic names of these places aren't what is said of them? Or do you dispute the opening paragraph? Or do you dispute the population figures? Or are you ignoring the fact that this area was inhabited and named by people other than Greeks prior to the population exchange? Carlossuarez46 (talk) 00:25, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Based on the biazed book of Simovski. You can't possible claim what ever you like simply because you believe so! Simovski is a known nationalist and his names condraticts Lithoksou list. By the fact that we have 2 sources tottally condraticting each other it should have been enough. Otherwise we have POV pushing. Seleukosa (talk) 10:52, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Very interesting information and whoever made the effort to collect it and to put it in the Wikipedia. It is very useful for some people to remember that the land they live on was not their's for quite sometime. No one wants it back, but some respect is very much due to the people who were expelled from there. The exodus of Greeks from what was new Turkey in 1923 is a bitter and very sad fact, just as it is true that many non-Greek locals were expelled from their homes and replaced by the incoming Greek refugies. In modern days this is called "genocide" and in ex-Yugoslavia such displacements of mass population still have problems to be recognised. Greece at the time got off with such social engeneering lightly.

No bitter feelings, but the truth must be remembered.

One big mistake in the whole material: there are no "Muslims" as ethnos.This is just religion and it can not be considered as nationality. The "Muslims" in the region are either Bulgarians (Bulgarian Pomaks to be precise), which should be considered as such if they speak Bulgarian as their mother thong, or Turks, Cherkez and other, generaly Turkish muslims.

It also not correct to call the other part of the names and of the population "Slavic". Slavs populate large territory from Central Europe to the Pacific Ocian and since no Russians or Slovaks can be found in the region, the use of this thermin might be diplomatic, but in generally is missleading.

The traditional population related to the Slavs in the region are the Bulgarians. So, are the names in the region. Claims that they also can be Macedonian are futile and groundless.

If we leave aside the argument what actually is called "Macedonia" in the old days and today, the logical explanation my statement is simple: the first mentioning of "Macedonian language" ever was in 1903. The "Macedonian nation" was created artificially in 1944 by the Commintern in Moscow. Those villages had their Bulgarian names long before those facts took place, hence the people who named them and lived there were not aware of being "Macedonian", but surely were Bulgarians. Very simple prove for it can be find in the Ottoman Taxation Registers and in the Census of the Ottoman empire done in 1903. Ottomans might be accused of many wrong-doings in the region but they were very metticulous when it came to stathistics connected with taxes.

One last remark: in the region also lived a small group of Vlachs, who were neither "Slavic" nor "Muslim". Some names of villages are of Vlach origin. And let us not call them "Romanians", because when they populated the region, they had no clue that their relatives North of the Danube would decide one day to become acestors of the ancient Romans and to call their country "New Roma" (RomaNea) and would decide to switch writing from Cyrilic to Latin.

Nikolai

Expanding the table
Hello, thanks for the great job. Thanks to this table and the English version of the book of Simovski we, on the Bulgarian Wikipedia, have been able to create about 50 articles about uninhabited villages in Greece for which we have a lot of data from Bulgarian sources like Vasil Kanchov, the statistic of the Bosnian Serb Stefan Verkovich and the book Ethnographie des Vilayets d'Adrianople, de Monastir et de Salonique. We have plenty of data. One suggestion for expanding the current article, is to add the number of Greek refugees, settled in the villages in 1928. Here you can find the Greek and former names of settlements, changed in the period 1919 - 1971. The number of refugees, settled in each settlement in 1928 can be found here. The later source also lists the old and new names, as well as, the number of families and refugees for each settlement. Note that not every village received refugees and that sometimes the names differ a little bit. For example the Greek name of the village of Radibosh is spelled in two ways Αετορράχη and Αετοράχη. Some times the three sources have different versions of the name and we end up with three different versions of the names. In case somebody enters the data for the refugees and/or the alternative names, I could enter more data from historical sources about the population before the Balkan Wars. Regards --Chech Explorer (talk) 09:42, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Please use the name parameter in long lists of coordinates
To increase the usefulness of the data in this article the coordinates should be given a proper name each, i.e.: °N, °W. Note that the type parameter set to city with the population number in braces is necessary. Thanks. --Dschwen 19:04, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Official Greek list
There is now an official Greek list Pandektis: Name Changes of Settlements in Greece, copiled by the Institute for Neohellenic Research}}  Andreas  (T) 12:56, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Alphbet/spelling of the Slavic names
As it is now, some names use the Macedonian alphabet and some use the Bulgarian alphabet. Given the vicinity of the Drama Prefecture to Bulgaria and the fact that the dialects spoken in this area are closer to standard Bulgarian than to standard Macedonia (in fact they belong to the Transitional dialects), it would make sense to use the Bulgarian alphabet here. Andreas (T) 21:05, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * This edit is inconsistent: If the Macedonian alphabet is used, дж should be spelled џ. Generally, the use of Cyrillic spelling of these place names is Original research as long as there is no source showing that the spelling in question was actually used by the local population or the authorities. One might perhaps use Simovski's spelling throughout, but this should be indicated. On the other hand, both Cyrillic spellings could be provided if there is no consensus. Andreas  (T) 18:18, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

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