Talk:List of fossil primates of South America

Taxonomy
Looks like the table is outdated with the current platyrrhine family structure. I plan to update it to fit with the current understanding of the families, even if that is a change from how Fossilworks lists things. - UtherSRG (talk) 23:27, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
 * As Mr.Fink said on talk:Insulacebus, "Fossilworks is a garbage scow, not a buffet". So the table here is full of outdated or just incorrect taxonomies. I was going to start from the top and examine each line, correcting as I go, but that very quickly became problematic. So instead, I'm going to outline the taxonomy as presented in the table here, as best I can, then add comments on what changes to make, probably post a revised taxonomy that aligns with the family/genus/species articles, then finally update the table. Wish me luck! :) - UtherSRG (talk) 11:29, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Current table taxonomy

 * Family "incertae sedis"
 * Genus Perupithecus
 * Perupithecus ucayaliensis
 * Genus Canaanimico - according to the article, this may belong to Homunculidae/Soriacebinae, but that's uncertain. See notes for Homunculinae below.
 * Canaanimico amazonensis
 * Genus Branisella - according to the article, this belongs in Cebidae/Branisellinae, but this may be uncertain
 * Branisella boliviana
 * Genus Szalatavus - synonymous with Branisella
 * Szalatavus attricuspis
 * Genus Chilecebus - according to the article, this belongs in Cebidae
 * Chilecebus carrascoensis
 * Genus Mohanamico - according to the article, this belongs in Pitheciidae/Pitheciinae, but could be Cebidae
 * Mohanamico hershkovitzi


 * Family Pitheciidae
 * Subfamily Pitheciinae
 * Genus Mazzonicebus
 * Mazzonicebus almendrae
 * Genus Soriacebus - Cebidae per Rosenberger
 * Soriacebus adrianae
 * Soriacebus ameghinorum
 * Genus Proteropithecia - Cebidae per Rosenberger
 * Proteropithecia neuquenensis
 * Genus Cebupithecia
 * Cebupithecia sarmientoi
 * Genus Nuciruptor
 * Nuciruptor rubricae
 * Subfamily Callicebinae - all three of these are correct, though listed as Callicebinae/Xenotrichini
 * Genus Paralouatta
 * Paralouatta marianae
 * Paralouatta varonai
 * Genus Antillothrix
 * Antillothrix bernensis
 * Genus Xenothrix
 * Xenothrix mcgregori
 * Subfamily Aotinae - this subfamily has been elevated to a family
 * Genus Aotus
 * Aotus dindensis
 * Genus Tremacebus - article indicates Atelidae, but later phylogeny says Cebidae
 * Tremacebus harringtoni
 * Subfamily Homunculinae - This subfamily (and subfamily Homunculidae) seem to no longer be used.
 * Genus Homunculus - Article says Pitheciidae/Pitheciinae
 * Homunculus patagonicus
 * Genus Carlocebus - Cebidae
 * Carlocebus carmenensis
 * Carlocebus intermedius
 * Genus Miocallicebus - Article states Pitheciidae/Callicebinae
 * Miocallicebus villaviejai


 * Family Aotidae
 * Tribe Aotini - This seems to be a holdover from an older taxonomy
 * Genus Insulacebus - sister to Aotus
 * Insulacebus toussentiana


 * Family Cebidae
 * Subfamily Cebinae
 * Genus Panamacebus - according to the article, just Cebidae
 * Panamacebus transitus
 * Genus Dolichocebus - Rosenberger says just Cebidae
 * Dolichocebus gaimanensis
 * Genus Killikaike - now just a synonym of Homunculus
 * Killikaike blakei
 * Genus Saimiri - Cebidae/Saimirinae
 * Saimiri annectens
 * Saimiri fieldsi
 * Genus Patasola - article states Callitrichidae, Rosenberger says Cebidae
 * Patasola magdalenae
 * Genus Acrecebus - correct per article
 * Acrecebus fraileyi
 * Subfamily Callitrichinae - has been elevated to a family
 * Genus Lagonimico - article taxobox has Pitheciidae/Callicebinae, but article only mentions Callitrichinae. Rosenberger says Cebidae
 * Lagonimico conclucatus
 * Genus Micodon - correct per article
 * Micodon kyotensis - article says kiotensis


 * Family Atelidae
 * Subfamily Alouattinae
 * Genus Stirtonia - Atelidae/Atelinae per article & Rosenberger
 * Stirtonia tatacoensis
 * Stirtonia victoriae
 * Genus Solimoea - article taxobox says Atelidae/Atelinae, but article discusses how it is probably Atelidae/Alouattinae
 * Solimoea acrensis
 * Genus Cartelles - article agrees
 * Cartelles coimbrafilhoi
 * Genus Caipora - article states Atelidae/Atelinae
 * Caipora bambuiorum
 * Genus Protopithecus - article states Atelidae/Atelinae
 * Protopithecus bonaeriensis
 * Protopithecus brasiliensis
 * Genus Alouatta
 * Alouatta mauroi

Thoughts
We should update so that the table reflects what is in the articles, but we should also update the articles that are out of date. Rosenberger 2002 is also outdated, but it is more recent than some of the current table data. Where nothing better is known, we should at least update to Rosenberger. I'll let this all sit here a bit, and may ping on some of the editors of these articles. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:05, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Actually, it looks like Silvestro et al., 2017 Table S4 and Figure S7 have the most up to date listing, although we'd still need to massage their three family system (Cebidae, Atelidae, Pitheciidae) into our five family system (add Aotidae and Callitrichidae) - but that's trivial. We can chuck out Rosenberger.

Data from S4 (with Silvestro -> Wikipedia familes/subfamilies/etc):
 * Incertae sedis: Branisella, Canaanimico, Chilecebus, Lagonimico, Mohanamico, Szalatavus, Perupithecus
 * Atelidae/Alouattinae: Cartelles, Paralouatta, Solimoea, Stirtonia
 * Atelidae/Atelinae: Caipora
 * Cebidae/Cebinae: Acrecebus (stem Cebus), Dolichocebus, Killikaike, Saimiri (or Laventiana) annectens & Saimiri (or Neosaimiri) fieldsi (both stem Saimiri, so move to Saimirinae), Panamacebus & Patasola listed after Saimiri so also move to Saimirinae?
 * Cebidae/Callitrichinae -> Callitrichidae: Micodon
 * Pitheciidae/Aotinae -> Aotidae: Aotus, Tremacebus
 * Pitheciidae/Homunculinae -> Pitheciidae/Pitheciinae/?Homunculini: Carlocebus, Homunculus, Miocallicebus
 * Pitheciidae/Pitheciinae: Mazzonicebus, Soriacebus, Proteropithecia, Cebupithecia, Nuciruptor
 * Pitheciidae: Antillothrix, Xenothrix, Insulacebus

Data from S7 (with Wikipedia taxonomy only):
 * Incertae sedis: Branisella, Canaanimico, Lagonimico, Szalatavus, Perupithecus
 * Atelidae/Alouattinae: Cartelles, Paralouatta, Stirtonia
 * Atelidae/Atelinae: Caipora, Solimoea
 * Atelidae: Chilecebus, Mohanamico
 * Aotidae: Aotus, Tremacebus
 * Callitrichidae: Micodon
 * Cebidae/Cebinae: Acrecebus, Killikaike
 * Cebidae/Saimirinae: Laventiana, Neosaimiri, Patasola, Dolichocebus
 * Cebidae: Panamacebus
 * Pitheciidae/Pitheciinae: Proteropithecia, Cebupithecia, Soriacebus, Nuciruptor, Mazzonicebus
 * Pitheciidae (sister to Pitheciinae, or include in Pitheciinae?): Insulacebus, Xenothrix, Antillothrix
 * Pitheciidae/Callicebinae: Miocallicebus (nestled within Callicebus), Carlocebus, Homunculus

However, S7 shows some potential changes to our understandings of the relationships of the NWM familes, with the following family relationships: (Pitheciidae, (Atelidae, (Cebidae, (Callitrichidae, Aotidae))))

Of the "incertae sedis"" taxa, we can see this:
 * Branisella is sister to the non-Pitheciidae side of the tree.
 * The other four genera have this relationship: (Perupithecus, (Szalatavus, (Lagonimico, (Canaanmico, NWM tree above))))

Whew! That was a lot to summarize. Yay me! :D - UtherSRG (talk) 16:36, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Proposed changes
Here are my proposed changes, both to this article and to the individual articles. I propose this with caution as it is based only on my read of Silvestro et al., 2017 above. I welcome input, critiques, and support, and will put notes on the talk pages of all the articles I propose touching.


 * Canaanimico - add a note that this is likely the closest sister to all of the extant NWMs. Add support to the "incertae sedis" placement.
 * Branisella - add a note that it is likely the sister of all the non-pitheciids. Add support for the "incertae sedis" placement.
 * Chilecebus - change parent to Atelidae and note that it is sister to all atelids
 * Mohanamico - change parent to Atelidae, as next closest known atelid
 * Paralouatta - change parent to Alouattinae
 * Solimoea - add note of support for Atelidae/Atelinae placement
 * Aotus dindensis - change parent to Aotidae
 * Tremacebus - change parent to Aotidae
 * Micodon - sister to Leontopithecus so change parent to Callitrichidae
 * Acrecebus - note sister to Cebus
 * Killikaike - resurrect the article as not a synonym to Homunculus, change parent to Cebinae
 * Saimiri annectens & Saimiri fieldsi note support to retain genera Laventiana and Neosaimiri respectively.
 * Patasola - change parent to Saimirinae
 * Dolichocebus - change parent to Saimirinae
 * Panamacebus - change parent to Cebidae, note that it is sister to rest of the family
 * Insulacebus, Xenothrix, Antillothrix - Four options:
 * change parent to Pitheciinae and note these three combined are sister to the rest of Pitheciinae
 * change parent to Pitheciidae and note these three combined are sister to Pitheciinae
 * change parent to Xenotrichini under Pitheciinae
 * change parent to Xenotrichinae under Pitheciidae
 * Miocallicebus - parent is correct, but note placement nestled within Callicebus - and notes on that genus article, too.
 * Homunculus - split off Killikaike as above, what remains at Homunculus gets parented to Callicebinae

I haven't decided on the Saimiri sp changes, nor the Xenothrix clade changes. I'll wait on suggestions for those. - UtherSRG (talk) 19:36, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Done?
Ok, I think I've updated everything. I left the Saimiri species in that genus. In the listing, I put the Xenotrichini genera at Pitheciinae, but put the tribe in that subfamily for the taxoboxes. I'm sure there is some cleanup to be done, but maybe I got it all? - UtherSRG (talk) 14:23, 15 September 2022 (UTC)