Talk:List of golfers with most European Tour wins

Ernie Els - number of victories
I think we need to reassess how many European Tour wins Els has. In the news report on his South African Open win on the European Tour website it states that this was Els 23rd win, but our list has it as his 21st. However there are only 20 wins listed in his profile on www.europeantour.com. This list omits mention of any of Els World Matchplay Championships victories, so if we count his victories in 2002, 2003 and 2004 we get to 23.
 * However at the wikipedia article on Ernie Els only 2 of these are listed as being classed as European Tour victories, in 2003 and 2004. We do not have a source that verifies when the World Matchplay Championship was sanctioned by the European Tour.

Muddying the water further is Els victory at the 2004 WGC-American Express Championship is counted as a European Tour win on the European Tour website, but is not included in our count of European Tour wins. Would someone like to double check this, as I think we need to adjust Els total to include the WGC event, and possibly some more World Matchplay victories. Catchpole 19:05, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The Wentworth World Matchplay has always been "sanctioned" by the European Tour - as an unofficial money event. I am not sure that the European Tour has ever made clear decisions about what "European Tour win" actually means, or made an announcement wrt to recognition of U.S. majors before they became official money events. As our list stands, I believe it is a correct record of wins in European Tour events which were official money events when played, which is not quite the same basis as is used for the matching PGA Tour list. I think we should stick to this until we have prove that the European Tour has retrospectively designated the U.S. majors and/or the Wentworth Match Play as official wins. But on the other hand, I think it should make that designation, at least in respect of the majors. I will review the notes on the article to make sure it is clear how it is currently prepared. If anyone is aware of any unambiguous statements on retrospective designation from the tour, please provide the source and update the article as appropriate. Osomec 14:16, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * This article clearly states that the 2004 World Match Play was the first official ET event. The win doesn't show up on Els' European Tour Wins list, which it should, or his Other Wins list, as his previous 5 wins do. The 2004 ET schedule lists the event but the winner's spot is blank. In previous years the event is marked with a "*" indicating it was an unofficial event (like the RYder Cup and Seve Trophy).Tewapack (talk) 22:42, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Graham Marsh
I added Graham Marsh to the main list as according to the European Tour Official Guide to 2009 (available to download here), the minimum number of events required for Tour membership was seven until 1986. So Marsh was a full member who did feature on the Order of Merit through playing seven events a year in the early 80s, then he should be included on the list as he meets the criteria listed. Catchpole (talk) 20:27, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Official European Tour Records!
1 Seve Ballesteros 50 2 Bernhard Langer 42 3 Tiger Woods 36 4 Colin Montgomerie 31 5 Nick Faldo 30 6 Ian Woosnam 29 7 Ernie Els 24 8 José Maria Olazábal 23 9 Sam Torrance 21 10T Mark James 18 10T Sandy Lyle 18 10T Lee Westwood 18 13 Mark McNulty 16 14 Miguel Angel Jiménez 15 15T Retief Goosen 14 15T Padraig Harrington 14 15T Greg Norman 14 18 Vijay Singh 13 19 Darren Clarke 12 20 Howard Clark 11 21T Bernard Gallacher 10 21T Graham Marsh 10 23T Brian Barnes 9 23T Thomas Björn 9 23T Robert Karlsson 9 23T Manuel Piñero 9 27T Gordon Brand Jnr 8 27T Michael Campbell 8 27T Paul Casey 8 27T Tony Jacklin 8 27T Eduardo Romero 8 27T Des Smyth 8 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk) 20:04, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Nicklaus
Why isn't Jack Nicklaus on this list, with 18 wins (i.e., his 18 majors)? I don't understand why Tiger is on this list but Nicklaus is not. I think Tiger should be on here, but I think Nicklaus should be, too. MrArticleOne (talk) 03:23, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * He's not on the list from the official ET Media Guide, Tiger is. If he was on the list, it would only be his majors since the founding of the ET in 1972 (9 wins not 18).Tewapack (talk) 03:51, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Davexvi (talk) 13:47, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I was wondering the same thing. The article says, "The three U.S. based majors were not designated as European Tour events until 1997, so victories in them before that date were initially excluded. ... Sometime prior to 2009, the European Tour made such a retrospective designation with respect to the three U.S. majors, as reflected in their 2009 media guide." So since Nicklaus won 9 majors in 1972 and later years, those should all count as "European Tour wins", and he should be on this list (even if he didn't win any other European Tour-sanctioned events). And, in fact, the European Tour web site lists him with 9 official victories. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 16:56, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Treatment of majors
I know comparatively little about golf, so please bear with me if I have misunderstood something:

As I understand this article, Majors are considered a part of the European Tour (and, presumably, the PGA Tour) irrespective of where they are played---and counted as such in the players statistics (here and officially).

While this is understandable from one POV, it is misleading from another. I would suggest that the count is limited to the number of Majors actually won on European soil (or, alternatively, that both numbers be given), which, strictly IMO, is the more interesting number. This in particular bearing in mind that the overall number of Majors are listed in other articles too.

The same reasoning applies, vice versa, to any PGA Tour article listing majors in a similar manner.

(I realize, obviously, that "part of the European Tour" and "played on European soil" are not logically equivalent.) 188.100.204.185 (talk) 19:22, 15 March 2010 (UTC)


 * It's not just the majors where this is an issue. World Golf Championships are in a similar category. In addition many other European Tour events take place outside Europe (often Co-sanctioned events - i.e. part of 2 or more tours): see 2014 European Tour, so actually there are not that many European tour events that take place in Europe any more. Similar issues relate to the PGA Tour which has events in Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico and recently in Malaysia. Nigej (talk) 07:33, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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Nicklaus - 9 not 10
On 9 March 2016‎ someone increased Nicklaus's total from 9 to 10 saying "The official European PGA Tour site lists Jack Nicklaus as having 10 tour victories rather than 9". As I write this he is missing from http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/news/newsid=176339.html which goes down to 10. He had 9 majors from 1972 onwards and nothing else that I can find, so 9 seems to be correct. Nigej (talk) 14:01, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
 * 9 is correct. The 10th listed on his European Tour wins page is the 1970 Open Championship, before the tour officially began. pʰeːnuːmuː  →‎  pʰiːnyːmyː  → ‎ ɸinimi  → ‎ fiɲimi  16:43, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I have changed back to 9. Nigej (talk) 19:16, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Move the H to under the table?
Would think the explanation of the H would be best right under the table (unless that impacts templates that use the table?) JeopardyTempest (talk) 15:35, 21 July 2018 (UTC)