Talk:List of highest-grossing media franchises/Archive 2

Removal of all entries with figures invented by multiplying prices
Pursuant to the closely-related discussions (see here and here) on fabricated figures at List of highest-grossing video game franchises, I have removed every entry that has invented numbers, in whole or in part, by multiplying a price. Most of the estimates here are not stated in any source but rather invented via WP:SYNTH. The entries may be re-added with the fabricated numbers removed, if proper sources exist for them. This page is an especially egregious case given the repeated citations of its bogus numbers in the media; we must be extra careful of WP:Citogenesis if and when sources for the figures are found. Phediuk (talk) 01:36, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I will try to clean up as much as I can and add back franchises that were once removed(and well-sourced)Timur9008 (talk) 05:47, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I'll also help out, only bringing back content that does not involve price multiplication. Maestro2016 (talk) 04:04, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * you should add Ultraman back ($7.4 billion merch figure form 4Kids website) Timur9008 (talk) 06:33, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅. Maestro2016 (talk) 05:10, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * regarding Yu-Gi-Oh!. Can this source be used instead? Timur9008 (talk) 07:31, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅. Maestro2016 (talk) 05:47, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Is there a backup source for the Gi Joe figure( the $2.6 billion merch figure from 1996) because its inansesible. Timur9008 (talk) 16:30, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Archive.org is a good site for old archives of dead links. I've found an archived link for GI Joe. Maestro2016 (talk) 02:18, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * You should check the source because it doesn't say the $2.6 billion figure, because the article used to be behind a paywall. Timur9008 (talk) 12:02, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * You're right. The full article is no longer accessible because of the archived paywall. How did you originally access it, when you first added it years ago? Maestro2016 (talk) 16:09, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Never mind. I've found an alternative source for GI Joe. Maestro2016 (talk) 16:56, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Article status
Now that the discussion over at Articles for deletion/List of highest-grossing video game franchises seems to be leaning heavily towards deletion, it seems almost certain that article will be deleted. Which raises concerns over this article, as some of the issues raised over that article may also apply to this article. So what should be done about this article? Maestro2016 (talk) 13:25, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Tough to say really. These numbers have to go somewhere. If not this article, then every brand/media franchise page should have a financial section for the performance of each brand. But that's just my opinion. I would like to hear other editor's opinions on this though. Timur9008 (talk) 16:15, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * That's not a bad idea, moving the data to each individual franchise article (assuming the worst-case scenario that this article gets nuked, by any chance). I would also like to hear what thinks, as I think s/he was probably the third main contributor to this article (after me and you). Forgot who else made major contributions to this article. Maestro2016 (talk) 14:38, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

I will try to help if I can, I think if we put it in draft, and work on it (we probably need to discuss how). ,, these users I have ping have also done a lot recently to this page. I got a couple of things I wanted to do this year but I could put them back to save this pageFan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 15:29, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * may also help Timur9008 (talk) 17:42, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

missing franchises
Jumanji is missing for the list. The films alone should put it  on the list (grossing  Around $2.1B) Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 12:14, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Bakugan is also missing.Timur9008 (talk) 14:31, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

And Finding Nemo ($2B on just the films). Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 12:43, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅. Maestro2016 (talk) 15:28, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Other film series that made around $2B that not on the list are Kung fu fu panda ($1.8B) Plaent of the apes ($2.2B) and The Conjuring Universe ($1.9B) all three of those are  box office only Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 17:21, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅. Maestro2016 (talk) 12:03, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Just found more captain America $2.5B,incredibles $2B, Jason Bourne $2B Men in Black $2B and how to train your dragons $2B again all of these are box office and North America home media sales. Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 16:42, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅. I think we might have to raise the threshold to $2 billion again. Maestro2016 (talk) 21:42, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Super Mario is at least 36 Billion, not 34..
1. Why was this source removed in the first place? The $7 billion revenue figure issued by Nintendo. Timur9008 (talk) 12:50, 9 June 2020 (UTC) https://web.archive.org/web/20021020215227/biz.yahoo.com/bw/020826/260010_1.html


 * That was from 2002. It was replaced with a relatively more recent 2011 source. Maestro2016 (talk) 20:52, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

2. Why in a recent edit has Mario somehow lost 20 billion? IGN and other sources have Mario as 36 billion. This list also had Mario at 36 Billion. But in the last 4 months (the last time I read this page) he has moved down from 36 to 16 billion. I doubt 20 billion can be a miscalculation? Super Mario as a franchise has made 30 billion alone in video games.

"It's estimated that as of 2018, the Mario franchise has grossed over $30 Billion in revenue. That's almost as much as Call of Duty, Halo, The Legend of Zelda, Minecraft, Fortnite have generated combined.15 Nov 2019"'

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/11/15/mario-sales-competition-infographic

Using an earlier edit as a source - Titlemax 36 Billion

https://www.titlemax.com/discovery-center/money-finance/the-25-highest-grossing-media-franchises-of-all-time/

Work and money also put it much higher with 37 billion.

https://www.workandmoney.com/s/most-successful-media-franchises-b3aca9a9436b48a5

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.216.96 (talk) 15:43, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

3. Can someone make Super Mario at least 36 billion? Not 34? All sources above say at least 36 (some say it's 37) let's make this list the most accurate we can. 20:13, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

$2 billion
Just wondering if anyone wants to rise the threshold to $2B (as mentioned above) I decided to make the discussion it’s own topic thoughts Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 22:38, 27 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I think this list definitely needs to have the threshold raised. It currently has over 160 franchises. We may need to raise the threshold to at least $2B, or maybe even $3B. Maestro2016 (talk) 03:56, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I personally think the article should remain as it is. with the threshold being $1 billion. But I would like to hear what other editors think.  The point of this list Is to be one of the biggest on Wikipedia.Articles with the most references Timur9008 (talk) 11:12, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

I think there a reason for both $1B gives us information that interest for $2B if we do not do it now we need to at some point the question is when we at 200 entries 300 Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 16:28, 28 January 2021 (UTC)


 * It's worth having a look at Article size for guidelines on where to draw the line. I would draw the line at $2B minimum, or alternatively split into two articles if it gets too large. Maestro2016 (talk) 19:51, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree with the "splitting into two articles if it gets too large" Timur9008 (talk) 22:06, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

The spilt page says “Over 100K Almost certainly should be divided” we currently at  280K based on this I think we should rises rise the threshold to $2B I think I page spilt is a bad idea and would not help us (probably makes things worse as we will have 2 pages to keep a eye one. Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 21:07, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

No I believe the article is fine where it stands. These companies earned the billion it deserves to be on the list. I even think there should be a new page discussing franchises that has 100 or 500-999 million dollars in revenue. Tropetroop29 (talk) 00:45, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Definitely not if we go down $100M or $500M would be way too low if I may point out a similar discussion on the List of best-selling video game franchises back on October 2020 see here as a result it move from 5M to 20M I think we should followed suit Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 18:02, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

I done a rise to see whst it could look like if we want a futher discussion please do also I want to get ahead of ourselves for next time and discuss a limit wherever size of pages or number of entries Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 11:22, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't think it was a good idea to erase the 1 billion. But since it's done it should be split up to another page.

Maybe it can be from 750 million to under 2 billion. Tropetroop29 (talk) 18:59, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
 * this was just too see what it would look like it

The problem I see if we do a List of highest-grossing media franchises page 2 what happened when that gets too big a page 3 page 4 when will we end it? Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 19:15, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Lego dvd correction
The lego movie franchise unfortunately included all lego films and not just the films of the lego movie franchise the right figures are as follow This gives the total of $192.2M Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 09:32, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The Lego Movie $110.9M
 * The lego batman movie $45.3M
 * The Lego Ninjago Movie $16.9M
 * The Lego Movie 2 the second part $19.6M

HB
Dose anyone have any numbers on the Hanna-Barbera franchises all I could find is
 * The Flintstones
 * box office and small sample of dvd sales
 * Box office:$419.7M
 * Home media:$589K
 * Total:$421.2M
 * See https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Flintstones#tab=summary

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_animated_films#Highest-grossing_animated_films_by_year
 * Yogi bear
 * Box office: $209.5M
 * Home media: $23M
 * See https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Yogi-Bear#tab=video

and there also likes of top cat, The Jetsons, Wacky Races, etrc Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 01:12, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 7 February 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move  (t &#183; c)  buidhe  23:40, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

List of highest-grossing media franchises → List of highest-grossing multimedia franchises – Media franchise was moved to Multimedia franchise by Editor-1. This page should be moved as well. Timur9008 (talk) 14:39, 7 February 2021 (UTC) —Relisting.  SITH   (talk)   17:08, 14 February 2021 (UTC)


 * If the page gets renamed to multimedia franchises, then what would happen to franchises that have only appeared in a single medium? Maestro2016 (talk) 15:30, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
 * That's actually a good question. I suppose they get removed from the list. Then the threshold should be $1 billion. Timur9008 (talk) 17:42, 7 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I think it would be better to include both multi-media and single-media franchises, to be honest, even if it means keeping a $2B threshold. Maestro2016 (talk) 17:46, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

I with Maestro2016 we need to include both multi-media and single-media franchises Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 18:26, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Tamagotchi
So, I was looking at this article, and I found it strange that Tamagotchi isn't listed here. Frustratingly, though, while I can find how many units have been shipped (82 million as of 2017), I can't find a source that states how much revenue that translates to. Can anyone help me with this? Pacack (talk) 19:56, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Update; I added Tamagotchi and some figures, but I fully believe them to be out of date and would appreciate review. Many thanks. Pacack (talk) 23:36, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Digimon Section
I edited the Digimon section to correctly reflect our course. While the overall revenue of the franchise is $6.35 billion, this is not all in video game sales. However, I am unable to find a source that breaks this number down into revenue from sales of the digital pet, video games, anime, films, manga, trading card game, and merchandise. I would appreciate any help. Pacack (talk) 21:11, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Update; I significantly expanded upon the Digimon section, but much of the data is outdated, and some links are broken. If anyone would be willing to help me clean it up, I would appreciate it a lot. Pacack (talk) 23:37, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

What happened to to the jump comics section?
Jump Comics used to be on this list actually in the top ten is there a reason that it was removed? Just curious — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.135.165.98 (talk) 21:45, 6 March 2021 (UTC)


 * See below

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises#Removal_of_all_entries_with_figures_invented_by_multiplying_prices Timur9008 (talk) 11:00, 7 march 2021 (UTC)

OK thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.135.175.202 (talk) 23:34, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Magazine sales for Manga series should be removed
Magazine sales shouldn't count to a particular franchise gross as a magazine feature several series and attributing to one doesn't make sense and attributing it to all also doesn't make sense instead there should be a new entry for Weekly shounen Jump same as Weekly shounen Magazine that is already added though a problem will remain which is that we have to manually calculate the gross by multiplying because as far as i know no direct source about the magazine gross is available Adab1za (talk) 10:51, 2 June 2021 (UTC)


 * If you are talking about the Weekly Shonen Jump Magazine sales/copies, it is the same with the circulation of the mangas. Which means, in every distribution of the publishing company to any stores are already counted as sales. Therefore in every Weekly Shonen Jump featuring One Piece Chapters,the sales of the magazine will also correspond to One Piece Magazine circulation. Remember, the One Piece Official Magazines is not even included there. About the estimation sales, the explanation is already mentioned there in the page of Weekly Shonen Jump. If you read about the article mentioning "7.5 Billion copies of Weekly Shonen Jump Magazine estimate until 2018", it is mentioned there that Luffy is the most featured Character in Weekly Shonen Jump Magazine Issues Cover, which means there is also an every chapter of One Piece there. Not even included the issues in which Luffy is not in the cover which One Piece Chapter has on it. I hope you now understand.

Selenne (talk) 13:12, 2 June 2021 (UTC)Yujoong talk

It still doesn't make sense, The magazine have different series other than One Piece, so why attribute its full price to OP ? and if we include every series in there then again also doesn't make sense, KochiKame ran in WSJ for 40 years without a single break, should we also add all those 40 years worth of magazine sales into Kochikame ? in my opinion also no since all magazine sales do is inflating the numbers, your point about it being circulation of the manga is wrong since Manga volume only feature one series so it make sense to add them to the series gross. adding One piece official magazine is perfectly fine if you have a source for that but WSJ sales is absolutely not, My final suggestion is to add a note including the number of magazine that featured OP chapters but if you are not convinced then i think we should as a wiki admin/mod for that. Adab1za (talk) 13:28, 2 June 2021 (UTC)


 * You need also to remember that Weekly Shonen Jump Magazine advancely publish every chapters of every manga way before the official release of the volume of a manga. Do you think that author Oda and the One piece Franchise together with the other Manga Franchise will not gain anything from it? There must be copyright of it. That is the reason why the Weekly Shonen Jump Magazine sales/copies which include One Piece chapter on it will also include in the One Piece Magazine Circulation. I think you are the one who do not understand about the Weekly Shonen Jump Magazine. As i have said also, if you want to complain about the estimation sales, complain on the Weekly Shonen Jump Talk Page. Do not complain here in this page because this is an another wikipedia page and also, the source referencing on another Wikipedia page "Weekly Shonen Jump" as of now is reliable. As of now, leave as it is. Wait for the Wiki admin to officially change it.

Selenne (talk)(talk) 13:12, 2 June 2021 (UTC)Yujoong talk

I know exactly how wsj works, they publish the magazine weekly featuring 15-20 series(and some times one shots) in every issues, talking these copies and attributing them ALL for OP is just wrong and doesn't make sense, and no i am removing it especially since it also applies to "user made estimation" that are currently in the archive and admin agreed that it should be removed, you are the one who should leave it as it is until the admin say otherwise, this page used to have Magazine sales for every manga series until the admin removed them and someone changed and added them to OP so they should be removed. Adab1za (talk) 15:09, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Disney Fairies
Should Disney Fairies include Peter Pan Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 22:41, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

License Global's 2020 retail report
Can someone update some of this stuff? Timur9008 (talk) 14:03, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

https://secure.viewer.zmags.com/publication/1de60963#/1de60963/32

Wernham Hogg
Does anyone have any numbers for The Office Here what I could find
 * film worldwide box office $5.2M
 * Office us domestic home media sales $418M
 * sterm $500M
 * Total $923.2M

Of course this is just a fraction of the franchises just wondering if anyone knows anymore
 * 92.236.253.249 (talk) 10:22, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * This article has been around for years. If there were numbers for The Office, it would have been added already.Timur9008 (talk) 15:13, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Ghostbusters
Does any have any Ghostbusters update here what I found merchandise $1B (as of 2007) Box office: $739.7M Domestic home media sales: $61.6M Total: $1.8B 82.132.215.142 (talk) 17:50, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Ghostbusters was added before with the same source you provided but there is no update sadly. Timur9008 (talk) 21:14, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Merge Iron Man into MCU?
I dont see why not, the overwhelming majority of sales is tied into the MCU, whereas Spider-Man is a lot more distinct, in parts due to Sony holding the movie rights. jonas (talk) 14:17, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea. Curious what others think.Timur9008 (talk) 19:20, 12 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Not entirely sure. On the one hand, Iron-Man does have other media outside of the MCU. But on the other hand, there's not much revenue known for Iron-Man outside of the MCU. The only thing listed that isn't MCU-related is The Invincible Iron Man ($5M from DVD sales). Maestro2016 (talk) 19:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

No Iron man is it own franchise that started over 40 years before MCU we should treat it as it own franchises 92.236.253.249 (talk) 16:38, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

What happened to Naruto & Bleach sections?
why were they deleted?
 * See below. Timur9008 (talk) 14:18, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises/Archive_2#Removal_of_all_entries_with_figures_invented_by_multiplying_prices

I see,but naruto already has the manga sales + merch sales info from bandai and streaming revenue from Tokyo tv. I think it could be easily re-added.I'll try to look it up. if someone wants to help please do so!WillsEdtior777 (talk) 11:30, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Country of Origin
I think that an interesting addition would be to have a new column to list the countries of origin for the listed franchises. Thoughts?

No we got information as it is 92.236.253.249 (talk) 22:25, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree with this. There is already enough information as it is.Timur9008 (talk) 18:37, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Mario $7 billion figure(as of 2002)
Not sure where to put this. (mentioned here paywall). Also, I'm not sure where IGN got the $30 billion figure for Mario from. Was wondering can we use this source instead of the IGN one. And yes i know the $7 billion figure was brought up before but still. Timur9008 (talk) 22:40, 16 November 2021 (UTC)


 * That's from 2002, so it's outdated. The IGN source is from 2018, so is more up-to-date. The article already makes it clear that most of the figures are estimates anyway. Maestro2016 (talk) 20:34, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

One Piece?
Pretty much every source I can find lists One Piece as 20 billion+. Wikipedia is the only one I can find with it at 10 billion. Can someone explain this discrepancy? 68.132.173.37 (talk) 20:36, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

These most likely sourced it from this page while it was containing misleading information, See magazine sales in the talk page above you. If you find a source that mentioned a reliable source you can place it here and we'll fix it or edit it in if you can.WillsEdtior777 (talk) 23:45, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Manga magazine sales should not be included
It is not related to a singular ip. and its being counted for some ip's and others not. it also heavily changes the IP value. It makes the number much higher then it really is therefore inaccurate. the circulation should only be added to the "Weekly shonen magazine" itself. not to the manga published in it.

according to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weekly_Sh%C5%8Dnen_Jump in the manga series section. Kochikame is a 15.4+ Billion usd IP based on magazine circulation alone.

edit: Apparently an admin already removed them but someone re-added them. which is the reason for only some ip's having them. will be deleting Manga magazine sales from IP's that have them.

Also,People should look into this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_magazines_by_circulation. I think highest grossing media Franchises will be filled with magazines if so. so we shouldn't really count a magazine as a "media franchise" anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WillsEdtior777 (talk • contribs) 04:18, 2 December 2021 (UTC) WillsEdtior777 (talk) 14:43, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, i'm not sure why it was added since it's not a media franchise.Timur9008 (talk) 11:37, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Yeah i don't know why it was added either,I'll delete it and put a note. if someone can provide reasonable reason we can get it back.WillsEdtior777 (talk) 13:20, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

A source of sales for some titles
Noticed this wasn't calculated to some IP's https://corp.toei-anim.co.jp/en/ir/library/result.html

Toei's data in english goes to 2012. Includes licensing and "top film" both overseas and domestic.some of the ip's include Dragon ball,One Piece,Slam dunk,Sailor moon and others.WillsEdtior777 (talk) 05:17, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Running scripts error
Not sure if this is just me but from reference 569 to reference 658 this error pops up.( says "The time allocated for running scripts has expired.") Is there a way to fix this? Timur9008 (talk) 11:29, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Not seeing it myself. -- ferret (talk) 18:35, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Seems it was fixed rather quickly. Timur9008 (talk) 16:34, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Pokémon jet sales
It should be “Pokémon jet aircraft livery sales” as jet aircraft sales sounds like they’re selling an actual aircraft. -Toast (talk) 02:26, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

King Kong

 * King Kong should be added
 * Box office $1.7B
 * home media: $221.5 million
 * Pachinko: $105 million
 * 92.236.253.249 (talk) 11:17, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

About the Detective conan entry on highest-grossing media article
Which one do you think needs a better source exactly? I thought they were all in line with other entries

Manga sales. same as others

Merchandise sales, sourced by Charabiz

Box office. sourced in the wikipedia article other anime box office also link to WillsEdtior777 (talk) 18:44, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 * It said in your edit you used an unreliable source. I'm guessing this ? Timur9008 (talk) 21:09, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Yes that's for merchandise, the source is not the site itself but the pictures on it, which are Charabiz data for the years mentioned. It's reliable/confirmed information. WillsEdtior777 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 19:32, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Feel free to read it then. Not sure sure why it said it's a depricated/unreliable source. Timur9008 21:46, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Yeah its weird it got tagged as that. Its used in multiple articles already and nothing changed since then. I'll re add it. WillsEdtior777 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 22:55, 15 March 2022 (UTC)   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.253.249 (talk)

Difference in Pachinko revenue between articles
Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_(franchise) and Fist_of_the_North_Star vs this article Pachinko

Any explanation for the difference here? the difference is upward to 4+ billion. thanks WillsEdtior777 (talk) 16:35, 18 March 2022 (UTC)


 * I think is to ask here. Timur9008 (talk) 16:36, 19 March 2022 (UTC)


 * There was a content dispute over a year ago (see Talk:List of highest-grossing media franchises/Archive 2). An older version of this article used revenue numbers from the Pachinko article, where the numbers were derived from multiplying the pachinko machine unit sales by an average pachinko machine sales price of $5,000 (reported by Variety). This became a point of contention, with concerns that this was WP:SYNTH, which led to these numbers being removed from this article. As an alternative, I made separate tables at Fist of the North Star and Neon Genesis Evangelion (franchise) deriving pachinko revenue numbers from annual reports. While this method leads to incomplete figures for both franchises, it avoids the SYNTH issue that was previously a point of contention. Maestro2016 (talk) 16:04, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Understood, thank you.WillsEdtior777 (talk)

Disney
Should Walt Disney be listed as a Creator on POTC as he created the original theme park rides the films are based on. We listed Gabrielle-Suzanne de Villeneuve as a creator on Beauty and the Beast 92.236.253.249 (talk) 19:44, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Also
 * Hans Christian Andersen should be under Frozen,
 * Lewis Carroll for Alice
 * William Shakespeare for Lion King

92.236.253.249 (talk) 15:36, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Dragon ball - 30 Billion IP
The cited source is a book made in 2004. Assuming the source is correct, shouldn't we place revenue post 2004 on top of the 30 billion? WillsEdtior777 (talk) 01:06, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
 * If you check the earlier revisions of this page you will see that the book source was used before. I don't think we should use this source though but that's just my opinion. (It's doubtful that the author of the book knew the actual figure, especially such a huge number).Timur9008 (talk) 06:55, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I honestly don't know how accurate that book is. It seems it was made by Japanese people but i don't know how related they're to the industry or Shueisha.
 * Also we're putting it at 30 billion when everything combined is not close to that yet. WillsEdtior777 (talk) 05:49, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * An older version of the article included manga magazine sales, i.e. Shonen Jump issues serializing Dragon Ball, which came up to an estimated $7B. But the manga magazine sales estimate was removed due to sourcing/synth issues. If the manga magazine sales were included, the combined total for Dragon Ball would've been fairly close to $30B. So $30B looks like a plausible estimate. Maestro2016 (talk) 17:18, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Tom and Jerry
I'm trying to find some information on this but i'm not having any luck. from its cultural worldwide impact I heavily suspect it's already past 2B. But there doesn't seem to be readily modern avaliable data about its Merchandise or video sales. WillsEdtior777 (talk) 15:33, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Here what I Found
 * Domestic Home media:$19,990,505
 * Box office:$136,106,453
 * 92.236.253.249 (talk) 92.236.253.249 (talk) 16:05, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah the theatrical two movies box office is the only ones who could be found along with some home media sales for recent movies. the majority of films were released straight to home media with no data on their sales however.
 * I really think its 10B+ with merchandise. Though it doesn't seem we'll have the data ever. I'll keep searching.
 * Thanks. WillsEdtior777 (talk) 06:48, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
 * There is no data on Tom and Jerry. I've searched for 3 years but with no luck. If there was data available it would have been added already given this article is almost 6 years old. Timur9008 (talk) 11:17, 2 April 2022 (UTC)


 * I haven't been able to find anymore data for Tom & Jerry either, unfortunately. Maestro2016 (talk) 17:28, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

JoJo
JoJo don't have 9.8 billion? Carambolax (talk) 11:47, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

"ABBA - Mamma Mia" might not fit into this article.
It might, but it seems odd to place here. A song isn't a franchise. Wouldn't it be better placed in an article like 'highest grossing songs of all time'? Holdonspirit (talk) 13:14, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Doubt
Why revenue generated from theme parks are not added? WikiWizard6500 (talk) 08:57, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * There is no information on that last I checked. Timur9008 (talk) 12:12, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

One Piece
Which is the right position of One Piece? RealSonny (talk) 20:00, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The one we currently have. Although the article does need cleanup. Timur9008 (talk) 21:56, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Top gear
Dose Top Gear gross enough for this list I can find that it makes £50M per year around$61.7M
 * 92.236.253.249 (talk) 13:27, 10 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Late reply but the threshold is $2 billion so it would need to be over that to be mentioned. Timur9008 (talk) 20:07, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Sources cleanup/Jagged 85 cleanup
I propose its time we clean the sources on this page and remove the false ones(Statista etc), now since Maestro2016 was banned. I am going to post the sources we should keep and check the rest.(I will try to keep this updated and ping all possible editors)

Keep references: 392, 393, The Licensing Letter sources, 357, 170, 202, 175, 193, 250, 418, 530, 575, 580, 590, 600, 614, 654, 288, 76, 384, 627, 220 Timur9008 (talk) 16:39, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

More concrete inclusion criteria
What exactly is the definition of "media franchise" for the purposes of this list? There appear to be fluid borders between so-called franchises across this list. For example, MCU, Avengers, and Spider-Man are all separate entries. Are we certain that no dollar has been "double-counted" between these three entries? Without well-defined inclusion criteria, one could imagine many more (or many fewer) "sub-franchises" that would pad out this list and rack up even more top placements in this list.

My other big question is why certain entries get lumped together for this list. Two that jump out at me are Middle Earth and Super Sentai. For Middle Earth, it's based on one single property but the profits go in so many different directions (film rights, book rights, Amazon TV show rights, limited series TV show rights, etc.) based on medium that it's hard to even really call it one "franchise" in the same way that Pokemon's profits all get centralized in one company. For Super Sentai, I think the Japanese and American versions are practically so different that it doesn't make sense to lump them together. Power Rangers licenses some footage from Super Sentai and repackages it into a completely different show. And the references for that entry are unable to distinguish between them (and mostly just link to their respective series articles, hoping that the citations exist there in perpetuity. This is a violation of WP:V. The references should be hosted here, not depend on the existence of prose/refs in another article).

So yeah, what's the deal here? I think the top of the list needs to be way more explicit about what is and isn't a single coherent "media franchise", or else we run the risk of diluting the usability and authority of the list. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:02, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I've also ran into major problems trying to verify some of the sources, many of them buried away on other WP pages, or in Japanese trade journals that are difficult for an English speaker to find or navigate, or invented by combining figures from disparate sources in an unclear fashion to arrive at a new figure not stated in any of them. The page also assumes, without good reason, that it is not double-counting any revenue figures, and tends to treat conjecture and/or unofficial spitball figures as the same thing as earnings reports. I believe the labyrinthine sourcing style is by design, given that Jagged/Maestro was caught over and over again doing stuff like this to cover up their misleading use of sources. In January 2021, I removed many dubious/false figures from this page, but Jagged/Maestro would add most of it back. I don't have an easy solution here; perhaps we should limit the figures to franchises that official sources treat as such and which have publicly revealed revenue figures for the franchise in total. Phediuk (talk) 21:18, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Can't we just revert to the January 2021 revision of yours? I think that would be the best solution. But keep the sources I've mentioned above. Timur9008 (talk) 01:00, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Based on the thoroughly shoddy sourcing, a small bit of TNT might be a better plan. Start a new draft with just the headers and only add an entry when you've verified every source. Looking through the list, there's far too many links away from the list to pass verification. I think the draft is also a good opportunity to hash out a concrete definition for franchise, so we can leave behind the ones that don't qualify and save a bit of effort. Axem Titanium (talk) 03:41, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Curious what others think. Can you ping more people? Timur9008 (talk) 04:05, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Another I find strange that this page has 202 page watchers but there is almost no participation or effort to verfiy the sources in the article. Timur9008 (talk) 04:15, 20 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Brought here by a talk page ping from Timur9008. Regarding sources, I would say anything added by Maestro2016 that isn't online and easily checked should just be nuked.
 * For checking if online sources are reliable, projects often have lists of less mainstream subject specific sources, for example WikiProject Comics/References and WikiProject Anime and manga/Online reliable sources.
 * And I think rolling back to the last good version seems like a good idea. Hard to keep track of what has been vetted otherwise. Siawase (talk) 15:44, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Restored to January 13, 2021 revision + made a lot of cleanup Timur9008 (talk) 12:50, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi; thanks for doing some clean-up on this page. I added the warning banners back, as my pruning of the page in January 2021 covered only the obvious misuses of sources. This page is still almost all Jagged/Maestro's work, and given their long and well-documented history of misusing and misrepresenting sources, there are almost certainly more dubious numbers on the page. Many of the numbers are still synthesized by combining figures from disparate sources. I suggest removing these Frankenstein numbers from the page altogether and focus on singular, definitive revenue statements from authoritative sources. Also, we need to be wary of citogenesis on this page, as the false numbers here have frequently been cited in reliable sources. Phediuk (talk) 17:50, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah I'm still going through everything. I've spent 3 days working on removing the false sources. The most suspect is still the Forbes articles which I will check. I've checked 80 sources which seems to check out.(Box Office mainly and the sources I added). Anything issued after December 2016(when the article was created) should be checked yes. Still, a long way to go! Timur9008 (talk) 18:01, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I propose that any source that may double-count revenue from another source be removed. For instance, the Pokemon entry assumes, without good reason, that the games, strategy guides, video sales, etc., are not included in the "licensed merchandise" figure. The Licensemag source, as far as I can tell, mentions no such exclusions. Phediuk (talk) 18:09, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. I will remove the games, strategy guides, video sales sections as its probably covered under Retail Sales/Licensed Merchandise. Jet aircraft sales and Box Office obviously stays. Timur9008 (talk) 18:19, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Timur9008 (talk) 18:31, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Just reading all this can we have list of what was added and what was taking away I started a table below so it easier to reed also i think we should aim to agree to number of entries on the list (i.e 100) and try to kept that amount on. 92.236.253.249 (talk) 14:46, 27 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi! I will be adding stuff back when I check the sources. No need for a table.(Numbers were never issued for Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy and so on in case you were wondering) Timur9008 (talk) 16:52, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Ok should we stick with a threshold of $2B it just $1B seams too low 92.236.253.249 (talk) 17:25, 27 November 2022 (UTC)


 * what do you think? Timur9008 (talk) 17:34, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
 * From looking at the list right now there's only one entry below $2B, so it's probably more workable to set the cap at $2B for now, and work at cleaning up what's already there. And then maybe once that's done look at expanding into $1B.
 * Also, I don't really see what the table is for. If any sourcing is unclear it seems better to discuss that. Putting old stuff not sourced to reliable sources into a table doesn't seem to serve a purpose. Siawase (talk) 08:22, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ raised threshold back to $2 billion. Timur9008 (talk) 19:00, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Nexon's official financial report, Dungeon and Warriors has a total revenue of 20 billion US dollars 勇士小易 (talk) 19:53, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * It's Dungeon Fighter Online 勇士小易 (talk) 19:58, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ updated with Reuters source Timur9008 (talk) 20:15, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * thanks 勇士小易 (talk) 20:18, 28 November 2022 (UTC)