Talk:List of historic places in Greater Sudbury

Proposed deletion
I also think this page should be deleted, but perhaps if the creator is interested a "list of historic buildings in greater sudbury" might be a more suitable page to create.Mattximus (talk) 03:04, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Regarding the Proposed deletion/dated|concern = Wikipedia is neither a directory nor a travel guide|timestamp = 20121128020954 - I don’t think this page should be deleted. It is not the intention to do a travel guide – Sadly most of these buildings have been demolished so there would be nothing to see once you got there. With regards to being a directory – all I did was arrange the buildings into a logical street sequence. There isn’t any information about Sudbury Architecture or Downtown Streets on any of the other Sudbury pages. I’ll admit that Sudbury is not a world-class city like New York or London that have endless Wikipedia pages devoted to their buildings and Streets but surely a single page with all of the historical landmarks in Sudbury, past and present, is worthy of inclusion. Also, please note that the page is incomplete. There is much information that needs to be added regarding dates opened, architects, dates closed, demolished, current use and so on…There will be too much information for inclusion on an existing Sudbury page. If the objection is to the name I choose, I would be happy to create a page with a different name Bzaoral ,  talk  03:35, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

I believe you are missing the point made for deletion. Wikipedia does not have any pages on "street addresses and buildings" for any city but DOES have pages on "List of Historic Buildings in ...". The latter is a more encyclopaedic way of organizing information rather than a random directory of random streets with some random buildings on them. The way you organized it is much more confusing. Again, if you are interested creating a page, please create "List of Historic Buildings in Greater Sudbury" instead.Mattximus (talk) 16:13, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

I can see Wikipedia pages for lists: e.g. List of Churches in London e.g. List of listed buildings in Edinburgh/3 e.g. List of east–west roads in Toronto (note: some of the streets have links that take you to a dedicated street page)

I can see Wikipedia pages devoted to buildings: e.g. St Thomas' Church, Coventry e.g. Victoria County Court House

I can see Wikipedia pages devoted to streets: e.g. Merivale Road (Ottawa) e.g. Bloor Street

note: there are hundreds of “Streets in …..” pages in Categories. If you click on one of the streets listed, you are taken to a page devoted to that street.

All I’ve done is arrange the notable buildings in Sudbury by street. I can certainly create a "List of Historic Buildings in Downtown Sudbury" in a table, but I still would sort the addresses by street address. Bzaoral,  talk  19:10, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Downtown Sudbury is just a redirect to Urban neighbourhoods of Sudbury. Greater Sudbury now seems to be the preferred term, per Category:Buildings and structures in Greater Sudbury and List of tallest buildings in Greater Sudbury. Are there any objections to calling the renamed list List of historic buildings in Greater Sudbury? Shawn in Montreal (talk) 15:57, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes that is a much better title since it now matches other cities. And yes Greater Sudbury is the name of the city since 2001 when the City of Sudbury merged with it's surrounding communities. I do not think they should be ordered by street however, that is not a useful organization for those living outside of the city. Mattximus (talk) 16:19, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * My quick look at other List of historic buildings in... pages reveals no predominant scheme, from what I can see. Some are done chronologically, some, with seemingly no organizing principle at all. Personally, I don't have a problem if Bzaoral wants to order them by address. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:32, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * As we seem to have consensus, I've gone ahead and moved this list. As such, I now believe the list simply needs to be improved not deleted, and so will change my !vote at the Afd. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 00:20, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I've changed that to "places" per the recently created Category:Lists of historic places in Ontario. However, do take a look at the sibling categories for other Ontario cities, which use a table that should be incorporated here, clearly. The list creator will just have to respect consensus on this, I think. sorry. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 00:37, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I will incorporate a table so that "List of historic places in Greater Sudbury" is consistent with the other "List of historic places in ..." pages. I copied the "List of historic places in Brampton" as my template. The only comment that I would make is that the GeoGroupTemplate seems deficient to me as it doesn't have a column for any kind of notes about the historic place (i.e. date built, architect(s), local stone quarry construction, date demolished, original use, current use...). I only see columns for Name, Address, Municipality, PC, Co-ordinates, IDF, IDP, IDM and Image. Can notes be entered under the image? Any other solutions/workarounds? Unless the historic place warrants its own page, I don't see a way to provide any additional data about the historic place except to provide references. Bzaoral,  talk  03:28, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That's very reasonable of you. Sorry, I'm clueless when it comes to tables. You might ask the editors who created the sibling articles in Category:Lists of historic places in Ontario. Be aware that those other lists seem to all be places and structures that are listed in the Canadian Register of Historic Places and so someone may suggest focusing the Great Sudbury list the same way, though I don't see that that's a requirement, myself. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 14:11, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You can edit those tables to have whatever headings you like by changing the name if you use a simpler table such as the one found here: List of historic buildings in Markham, Ontario. I would recommend working from this one, so that you can customize your columns however you see fit Mattximus (talk) 21:21, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Just a head's up: at some point, the issue of pruning may come up. As the list improves, I'm a few buildings that may not be able to be accurately described as "historic," imo. Such as the community centre. Or maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, such concerns may or may not be reflected in the Afd decision, I don't know... Shawn in Montreal (talk) 21:15, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

The Sudbury Municipal Heritage Committee (SMHC) http://www.greatersudbury.ca/inside-city-hall/land-use-planning/advisory-panels/municipal-heritage-advisory-panel/ listed on the government of Ontario’s Municipal Heritage Committee Directory http://www.mtc.gov.on.ca/en/heritage/lacac.shtml has 64 downtown sites listed in the Heritage Position Paper, City of Greater Sudbury, Downtown Sudbury Master Plan in April 2011 http://www.growdowntown.ca/blog/assets/content//documents/Final%20Supporting%20Reports_Part%202.pdf. The list is on page 42 and 43. I can’t find a more current list. I will update the Comment column on the “List of historic places in Greater Sudbury” with the respective SMHC location key and prune accordingly. Note: The Sudbury Community Arena is # 29. See also http://www.northernlife.ca/news/localNews/2010/02/watertower180210.aspx for an article that outlines the criteria for judging heritage buildings - The Ontario Heritage Act states “a property may be designated under section 29 of the Act if it meets one or more of the following criteria for determining whether it is of cultural heritage value or interest:” Bzaoral ,  talk  02:10, 2 December 2012 (UTC)