Talk:List of international trips made by secretaries of state of the United States

Page size
I've started splitting out individual sections into separate articles, to reduce the page size. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:33, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:55, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
 * John Foster Dulles (Left) And Ali Amini.jpg

William Seward in Mexico
The article is currently missing William Seward's trip to Mexico, I believe in 1869. We even have an illustration of him there on Commons. He seems to have spent over a month in Mexico City, and visited Veracruz. I failed to find the dates in some 10 minutes of googling - perhaps someone else can find and add more precise information. -- Infrogmation (talk) 19:50, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Hm, looking some more, perhaps this was just after he left office? Having some information on the actual dates would be helpful. -- Infrogmation (talk) 19:56, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 31 May 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Moved to List of international trips made by secretaries of state of the United States. Per nominator's second thought suggestion to move to option B in order to confirm the titles of similar articles to each other. Noting that the other participant in the RM was pinged but chose not to oppose Option B. Therefore, moved as an unopposed proposal. (non-admin closure) &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 12:50, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

List of international trips made by the United States Secretary of State → List of international trips made by the United States secretary of state – This would conform to MOS:JOBTITLES since secretary of state does not refer to any specific individual here. Plus the usage of the definite article denotes the office, not the title. In contrast, related articles such as List of international trips made by John Kerry as United States Secretary of State are arguably in compliance because there's no article used there (definite or otherwise), thus denoting the title, not the office. Woko Sapien (talk) 19:17, 31 May 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 21:47, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. Another possibility would be to pluralize it to List of international trips made by United States secretaries of state. --Woko Sapien (talk) 19:19, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Support I also agree with making the secretaries in the page title plural. AP writing style guide says formal titles should be capitalized when appearing directly before one or more names. Sheehanpg93 (talk) 13:14, 1 June 2022 (UTC)


 * The way I see it, a plural title could be rendered one of two ways: Option A — List of international trips made by United States secretaries of state, which is just a straight pluralization of the current title. Option B — List of international trips made by secretaries of state of the United States, which is more verbose, but it would better conform with similarly named articles such as:
 * List of international trips made by presidents of the United States
 * List of secretaries of state of the United States
 * Either way seems acceptable, but I figured I'd open it up to debate. --Woko Sapien (talk) 18:47, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Option B would also have the benefit of better conforming to other similar articles:
 * List of international trips made by presidents of Iran
 * List of international trips made by presidents of Pakistan
 * List of international trips made by prime ministers of India
 * List of international trips made by prime ministers of the United Kingdom
 * Going with option B would unify all these pages to have a "List of international trips made by [officials] of [country]" format.--Woko Sapien (talk) 21:29, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Note to closer: While there hasn't been much participation in this discussion, there is a small consensus to make the article title plural. Per my rationale above, I ask that the closer ignore my initial proposal and choose option B (List of international trips made by secretaries of state of the United States) instead as it has the best consistency with similar article titles and complies with MOS:JOBTITLES.--Woko Sapien (talk) 21:22, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.