Talk:List of largest European cities in history

Untitled
I propose to revise this article as Estimated population of European cities in history or something like that, for less reliable sources or estimates exist comapered to the List of largest cities throughout history. I shall summarize the following data into Tables with top five or top ten cities with three references later. At least Den123456dk, 87.49.155.91, or 83.88.130.152 have not cited reliable sources for most of the cases (Matt Rosenberg is just citing Chandler's data; Britannica's notorious estimate for Sarai (1,600 ha х 500 persons/ha) is too high for a city of unloading houses; Choirokoitia, Sesklo, Dimini are too obscure to be mentioned here as largest Eurpoean cities; Dobrovody, Maydanets, and Talianki's estimated popuations are upper limits, not averaged figures). Aurichalcum (talk) 08:26, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

At least three persons (Tertius Chandler, Paul Bairoch, and George Modelski) have estimated the population of European cities:


 * Tertius Chandler and Gerald Fox, 3000 Years of Urban Growth, New York, NY: Academic Press, 1974. ISBN 0127851097


 * Tertius Chandler, Four Thousand Years of Urban Growth: An Historical Census, Lewiston, NY: The Edwin Mellen Press, 1987. ISBN 0889462070


 * Paul Bairoch, Jean Batou and Pierre Chèvre, ''La Population des Villes Europ&eacute;ennes, 800-1850: Banque de donn&eacute;es et analyse sommaire des r&eacute;sultats", Geneva, Switzerland: Droz, 1988.


 * George Modelski, World Cities: -3000 to 2000, Washington DC: FAROS 2000, 2003. ISBN 2003094994


 * Brian R. Mitchell, International Historical Statistics: Europe, 1750-2000, 5th Ed., New York, NY: Palgrave Macmillan, 2003. ISBN 0333994116 Aurichalcum (talk) 12:07, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

i don't think it is wise just to use one source as George Modelski or others, but use some of the information from Modelski,  Modelski estimates knossos in 1500 BC at 50,000 and thats not the normal concensus,   thats 80,000 to 100,000. But i will use some of the Modelski estimates which is in line whit other sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.161.51.214 (talk) 11:05, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Who estimated the population of the city or urban of Knossos, but not the metropolitan area including the port and the palace at 100,000? The old palace of Knossos is about 20 ha, while the intensive settlement covers over 75 ha without fortifications. So the urban area of Knossos (excluding the port 8 km apart) is roughly around 1 km2.  To keep the population of 100,000 within the city, population density must be about 1,000 persons per hectare, only possible in cities of modern times.


 * Julius Beloch estimated the population of Knossos at 30,000 based on Strabo's accounts on Knossos (Die Bev&ouml;lkerung der griechisch-r&ouml;mischen Welt, 1886).


 * Todd Whitelaw estimated the population of Knossos at 15,000 (American Journal of Archaeology 95: 79-108, 1991).


 * Ian Morris estimated the population of Knossos at 1,250-2,500 based on the density of 12.5 to 25 persons per hectare (Burial and Ancient Society, 1991).


 * Sing C. Chew mentioned that Knossos had controlled over lands with a population of about 50,000 (World Ecological degration, 2001). This is not the estimated population of the city of Knossos proper.


 * M. Podini stated that the estimated population of 100,000 including port and place (Lost cities from the Ancient world, 2002). This is not the estimated population of the city of Knossos proper.Aurichalcum (talk) 18:27, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

George Modelski (2003) including Constantinople
Modelski stated that Dobrovody, Maydanets, Tallyanky could have housed up to 10,000 people with a population density of between 35 and 70 p/ha, though the latter point had not yet finally determined, citing personal communication with Mikhail Videiko in 2002. The published estimates by Kruts in 1989 are 7,000 for Maydanets and 14,000 for Tallyanky (Kruts, S. I. Paleoantropologia Severnogo Prichernomorya epokhi rannego metalla (Paleoanthropology of the North Pontic Region in the Period of Early Metal), In Pitskhelauri, K. N., and Chernykh, E. N. Eds., Kavkaz v sisteme paleometallicheskikh kultur Evrazii, Metsniereba, Tbilisi, 1989, pp. 146–156.).Aurichalcum (talk) 18:27, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Modelski only estimated the population of cities with more than a million inhabitants after A.D. 1100.

Paul Bairoch (1988) - from A.D. 800 to A.D. 1850-
Top 12 cities and some additional cities.Aurichalcum (talk) 14:49, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Chandler (1987)
Maybe I shall summarize later... Aurichalcum (talk) 12:07, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Chandler's estimates prior to 650 B.C. are rather unreliable compared to those provided by Modelski.

The maximum population of Rome estimated by Chandler is 600,000 around the years 171–180; 500,000 within the Aurelian's wall around the years 271–280 (not shown in the Table below). His estimates are apparently based upon the Little Rome (400 persons per hectare), while Modelski estimates follow the traditional Big Rome (as high as 800 persons per hectare).

Top 12 and additional cities.

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Scrolling
Do I miss something? To me the page is unusable. You can only scroll to the right from under the table, but then the years are out of sight. If you do scroll, the name of the cities disappear also. --Dominique Meeùs (talk) 14:11, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Vienna
There is Vieanna missing in the last table. 109.81.215.30 (talk) 19:28, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Tables are too big, the entire article is unreadable
Your should organize this mass of data differently. 212.7.159.74 (talk) 02:23, 2 January 2022 (UTC)