Talk:List of last survivors of historical events

Last survivor status retained even after death
Just so there is no confusion, if someone was the last survivor of a particular event, they would still be considered the last survivor after their own death, since by definition there could not be anyone else who survived longer after the event than they did. Beeblebrox (talk) 05:52, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Last surviving Presidential Cabinet Member
Recently, Robert Todd Lincoln was added back to this list. Does being the last living member of one of the U.S's presidential cabinets qualify that person to be the last survivor of a historical event? If so, then there are several individuals that have to be added again. Lemunz (talk) 08:27, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * A presidential cabinet is not an "event". This does not belong here. Otherwise, we would have the last surviving member of every presidential cabinet, cast of every film, every football team, etc. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 15:46, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Key events missing
We have made a great number of contributions on this article but there are several historical wars/conflicts/events that have yet to be added to any list that pertains to this category. Such events include the Satsuma Rebellion, Russo-Japanese war, Explosion of the USS Bennington (1905), Banana Wars, Boxer Rebellion, Taipei Rebellion, either Opium Wars and the construction of the Panama Canal. I am fully aware that numerous countries had less than adequate employment /enlistment records around this time and the true last witness could never be identified. If anyone has any information, feel free to share.Lemunz (talk) 09:07, 20 August 2011 (UTC)


 * There's probably no way we can ever know who was the last veteran from Waterloo or from the Boxer rebellion, there were simply too many people involved and enlistment rolls and death records were not up to modern standards. We can only surmise that the last man fighting at Waterloo would have died sometime around the turn of the 20th century (being perhaps sixteen at the time of the battle). 83.251.170.27 (talk) 06:43, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Change of Page Name
After reorganizing the entire page, I feel like it may be more suitably title "List of Last Survivors" or something more along those lines. Although there are a good deal of last survivors of historical events on the page, I feel like there are also a great deal of important people also listed who are the last survivors of not so much historical events, but historical groups.... Examples include: Dorothy Young, Last Living Assistant of Harry Houdini's Performances; Doris Eaton Travis, Last Member of the Ziegfeld Girls; and Francisco Alaya, Last Poet and Representative of Generation of '27.... Others I'm thinking we could include would be Ollie Johnston, Last of Disney's Nine Old Men or other people of great importance.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bradforce28 (talk • contribs) 18:44, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for adding on to this near forgotten list. Also, your table format will save us a bundle of time in the future. (talk) 05:34, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Andy Rasch
Recently, I came across another article on the fiercely debated WW1 vet Andrew (Andy) Rasch. Here is the link, http://www.todaysthv.com/news/watercooler/175992/70/The-Centenarian-Man-turns-110. Should we include this man in our list in any way? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemunz (talk • contribs) 01:02, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It's "fiercely debated" in so far as a handful of anon IPs on the talk page of List of surviving veterans of World War I have been pushing it, apparently because the notion that the last surviving WWI veteran is a woman bothers the heck out of them. That there is no evidence of Rasch's claims, that there is strong evidence that he's in fact 80 years old (instead of the 110+ claimed), that the ship on which he claims to have served has no record of the same, and that the Phoenix TV station which is the sole source of the claim has been cited by News of the Weird as being a source of urban legends should warn anyone off from buying into this.  Ravenswing  17:22, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Possible last Satsuma Rebellion veteran
I'm not sure whether to add Inagaki Kanetaro (or Nissho), (1854 - 1940) http://www.gogod.co.uk/NewInGo/Inagaki_7.htm, to the list or not. Personally, I would assume that the last vet would have died in the 1950's or 60's, but it is entirely possible (Based off the last of the Paris Communards) that the last veteran could have died in the 1940s. If anyone else finds something that leads to another death that is later than this one, please post them here before adding them to the finished list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemunz (talk • contribs) 22:00, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Last ww2 general
http://www.generals.dk/general/Rodger/Norman_Elliot/Canada.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.219.16.161 (talk) 17:24, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * We're decades away from the "last survivor" of WWII. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 19:11, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

the last one is Võ Nguyên Giáp — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.213.157.193 (talk) 15:05, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Nooo, he talk about las oficial general — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.219.16.161 (talk) 14:05, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Understood. However, the last surviving person 'in a particular role in a historical event is not the last survivor of that historical event. It does not belong here. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 19:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Battle of Navarino
The battle of Navarino took place in 1827 Erasmus Ommanney was on HMS Albion and was 13 years old at the time and died in 1904 and on his Wikipedia page it does say he was the last survivor, also there is a gravestone for a Samuel Tyler who was also 13 at the time of the battle who died in 1895 (but he is also on a website which records his death as 1898) aged 81 I don't know on which ship he was on but possibly they could both be included.Owain meurig (talk) 20:47, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

If he died in 1904, not only is Erasmus Ommanney the last vet of Navarino, but possibly of the entire Greek War of Independence. Though this is unlikely, he should be included none the less for his service in the battle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemunz (talk • contribs) 22:17, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Charge of the Light Brigade
Edwin Hughes was the last survivor of the charge of the Light Brigade 1854 more details are on his page.Owain meurig (talk) 20:42, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Notable???
A quick look through the list and there seems to be (surprise, surprise) no standard of notability required for inclusion. How is "last classmate of Ronald Reagan" notable? There is no article Classmates of Ronald Reagan therefore being the last can hardly be notable! No doubt there are more entries of similar non-notability. I don't suppose anyone would be interested in making this list for genuinely notable events rather than random trivia (which I believe was the reason the predecessor of this article was deleted)? DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 22:28, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Now that you mention it, we surely are lacking such a criteria. I suppose the main reason why is because some individual's sense of notability or importance of an event/group may differ from another. However, you do have a point as this list clearly does contain some useless trivia from the lack of filtering. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemunz (talk • contribs) 23:09, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

WWI Veterans
Hi - great list.

I was a regular contributor to the yearly lists of surviving WWI veterans on Wikipedia and couldn't help but notice a number of inaccuracies relating to some of the WWI veterans shown on this page:


 * William Young - not only the Last Member of the Royal Flying Corps, but also the last Scottish veteran (born Carluke, Lanarkshire)


 * James Alfred Hudson - was not the last survivor of the Battle of the Mons. I suspect that this was taken from the List of WWI Veterans who died in 2001 where I posted it originally.  This information was itself taken from a newspaper article .  However, Hudson's army service record  shows that he did not actually enlist until 7th June 1916 and so the article is either innacurate (it wouldn't be the first time newspapers have got things wrong) or he fought in the Mons area later in the war, rather than in the battle itself.  I'm afraid I never got round to updating the entry.


 * Alfred Anderson - was the last veteran living in Scotland, but not the last Scottish-born veteran as he was survived by William Young. I know various sources have made the claim, but it is also stretching matters to say that he was the last participant of the Christmas 1914 Truce.  Many of the same sources state that he was actually billeted at a farmhouse 20 miles behind the front line that day, but remembered the guns falling silent.  I guess it depends how one defines participation.  He was, however, the last survivor of the Battle of Loos.


 * Alfred Marshall - may have fought in the Loos sector later in the war but was still in training when the Battle itself took place, and was therefore not even a particpant never mind the last survivor (more innaccuate reporting, I suspect!).

Hope this helps. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brucexyz (talk • contribs) 23:35, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I'll admit, I never have been too sure about James Alfred Hudson. He was simply the last veteran I was able to find. []. As for Marshall, I had overlooked that he had been sent to France in Nov. 1915, at least one month too late for Loos. I agree with you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemunz (talk • contribs) 00:18, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Betty White? Are we serious?
Somehow, I don't think "Last surviving cast member of The Golden Girls" quite fits with the rest of the records in this article. I can definitely accept, for example, including Carla Laemmle as the last surviving cast member of The Phantom of the Opera since that has some historical significance and the movie almost 90 years old, but being the last of 4 main characters from a sitcom that only ended 20 years ago isn't all that notable for now in my opinion.MarkMc1990 (talk) 04:45, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree. This is also why we need a criteria on what content should be included on this list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemunz (talk • contribs) 23:06, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree completely. It also strikes me as ridiculous (in the context of this list) that Anthony Daniels (C-3PO) is listed as "the last living actor to have appeared in all six original Star Wars films". Should be deleted - or at least be corrected to seven films now... dllu (talk) 12:35, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I deleted that.Bkatcher (talk) 12:56, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Criteria for the content
With all the useless "trivia" that has been included on this page, It is about time that we set qualifications for what a historical event/ group really is. For starters, I feel that the event/group has to:


 * Have some sort of historical/ cultural significance
 * Include more than 3 participants

Feel free to add to these points, as I could have certainly forgot key requirements. Please do not delete any articles until we agree on what should be allowed here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemunz (talk • contribs) 23:15, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Having "some sort of historical/cultural significance" is very vague. The specific item that brought this discussion about would arguably have "some sort" of significance, as outlined at List of awards and nominations received by The Golden Girls... - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 03:27, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I think some qualifications should be specified in the context of time rather than the notability of the event itself. When it comes to highly notable films or television shows, the end date of the show should have to be a certain number of years old (50, maybe?), and the last survivor should have to have lived for a certain number of years beyond it (again, maybe 50). So considering the Golden Girls ended in 1992 and we can be all but certain that Betty White won't live to see 2042, such a record shouldn't belong in the article. MarkMc1990 (talk) 06:58, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * But then what about the Last survivor of the 2011 Lokomotiv Yaroslavl air disaster? Or the last of Disney's Nine Old men? Both pretty significant historically, but one just occurred in 2011, and the other doesn't really have an applicable date. Doing it with the limitation of being 50 years old would just cause an issue when it comes to more recent historical events, and then saying the last survivor has to have lived a certain amount of time beyond the date of the event would also cause problems. Even if someone were to survive a year after the event, that wouldn't change the fact they were the last survivor. And no offense to those involved in the discussion, but shouldn't the information included on the page be more based on fact than opinion? In some people's opinions "The Golden Girls" may not be historically significant, but if we are speaking in regards to facts, the show ranked among the top ten highest-rated programs for six out of its seven seasons, it was one of the first to deal with issues like "coming out", it's one of only three sitcoms in which all the main actors won at least one Emmy, and the show itself won 11 Emmys (among numerous others). Numerous lists have included it as an iconic television show (ranked up there with "I Love Lucy", "The Honeymooners", "The Simpsons", etc.), so factually speaking, that would make it seem worthy of being included on the list. I guess what it comes down to is just what fits whatever criteria are set for the page though.  Bradforce28 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 17:23, 13 April 2012 (UTC).
 * Well, 50 was just a suggestion. And the Lokomotiv Yaroslavl air disaster isn't a movie or tv show, which is what i was trying to set the limitation for. In any csse, I believe that particular record would belong in List of sole survivors of airline accidents or incidents since there was only one true survivor, as the other died as a direct result of his injuries from the crash but 5 days later (And looking at the article, I see it's already there). MarkMc1990 (talk) 18:31, 13 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Seeing as the article is called "List of last survivors of historical events, how about removing all those entries which are not related to a historical event, and all those who are not the last? A historical event should be defined as an event which is sufficiently notable to be included in a main Year article (which given the slack standards for inclusion in most articles probably won't exclude as many as it should). This would exclude last persons from non-historical events such as television series and films, groups of people not related to a particular event and those persons who were the last of a subset of people in a historical event (e.g. by country or branch of service for military events). Therefore Florence Green is the only last survivor of WWI. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 11:21, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

I'll have to partially agree with your argument. It seems obvious that we should remove any individual who is not truly the last participant in a historic event. I do, however, believe that some "television series and films, groups of people" do in fact hold significant value, qualify as "historic" and should therefore be kept. As mentioned before, people consider shows like the Golden Girls and movies like Casablanca to hold cultural importances and would be qualified, in their perspective, as historic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemunz (talk • contribs) 21:58, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * How about a new article, List of last survivors of cultural events for instances of last surviving band/film/TV/stage/other examples? For example people like the last castrato singer, the last silent movie organist, the last cast members, the last Ziegfield Girl, the last assistant of Houdini, etc. could go in there. Mabalu (talk) 09:11, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * This is what the list looks like when (very quickly) reduced down to only the cultural stuff: User:Mabalu/List of last survivors of cultural events. Mabalu (talk) 10:05, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * And an alternatively formatted version: User:Mabalu/List of last survivors of cultural events2 - I prefer this way of sorting it. Mabalu (talk) 12:53, 23 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I think that'd probably be a better idea. Separate the historic and cultural in a way that would still allow for those lasts to be listed somewhere, while at the same time appeasing those who don't find those to be historic. I also find the alternatively formatted version to be the better way to organize the cultural list.  Bradforce28 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 18:44, 23 May 2012 (UTC).


 * I also think that Mabalu's proposal is the best solution. Indeed, it seems to clear up a lot of the entries that could be easily transferred to that list. I urge that article to be made as soon as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemunz (talk • contribs) 23:04, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Then I will be WP:BOLD and create it. Mabalu (talk) 08:15, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * For attention: Articles for deletion/List of last survivors of cultural events Mabalu (talk) 09:04, 24 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Despite the previous points made, we still need to set up a reliable set of standards for what actually qualifies as a "historical event." The only requirement I can think of was, as I said, the event/group must have had at least 3 participants. Any Ideas? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemunz (talk • contribs) 00:30, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Having had "at least three participants" is very broad. Every team sporting event would qualify. Even if we narrow it down to three notable participants, we have every NFL, NBA, etc. game ever, as well as every Olympic contest (each sport for each year), etc. Further, the criterion is one we have created meaning the subject (as we're defining it) cannot possibly be notable (how about an article listing Vegetables that get mushy when cooked longer than 4:17 in hot water?). Also, we're inviting a whole lot of OR ("I've checked, everyone but Joe Blow is dead."). We can avoid all of this mess by requiring two things: 1) notable historical events only (as determined by the event having an article 2) reliable sources saying that Joe Blow is the "last survivor" of that event. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 01:32, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Last Manhattan Project scientist
Lawrence H. Johnston, the man cited by this article as being the last living scientist from the Manhattan Project, died on December 4th 2011. While his death was not reported by any major news sourced unfortunately, he is reported as dead in many smaller local sources.

http://dnews.com/obituaries/article_638dd0a7-0065-51db-b6ac-08563d7abe78.html http://pullmanmoscow.kxly.com/news/community-spirit/67405-emails-continue-remembering-lawrence-h-johnston http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/2011/12/06/r-i-p-paul-doty-and-lawrence-h-johnston/

If someone could update the page to include this information, I'd appreciate it. 97.113.218.100 (talk) 05:11, 23 April 2012 (UTC)Anonymous user

done. I also replaced Johnston with G. Cowan, another recently deceased scientist of the project. Does anyone know if anyone else is still alive? I remember reading something about a "Robert Carter" who worked on the project and haven't been able to find anything on him since. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemunz (talk • contribs) 23:21, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Eliza Moore
How could a slave born in 1843, 22 years before the end of slavery, have been the last remaining? Seeing as she died in 1948, that would mean none of the thousands of slave babies born in early 1865 made it to the age of 83. The claim just doesn't make sense. I would assume at least a few of the youngest slaves would have made it to the 1970s (but probably not the 1980s as there were no confirmed cases of anyone reaching the age of 115 until the 1990s). Even though the slaves who were babies at emancipation would have no memory of being slaves, nor would they have done any labor during this time, there would have undoubtedly been many born in the 1850s who would have remembered it and outlived Moore as well. MarkMc1990 (talk) 21:09, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

When I put Mrs. Moore on the list, I was asking myself the same question. I too thought that there were probably thousands of children born into slavery before 1865 who could live longer. Her article does, however, say that she was the last "proven African-American slave." This could mean that she was the last living person to work or to hold the responsibilities of a regular slave. It could also be a matter of age, with the younger people not counted for some reason. There are other cases like that of Charlie Smith which might not have been able to be validated as well due to the lack of documentation for slaves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemunz (talk • contribs) 01:58, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It could mean she was the last to regularly perform the duties of a slave, but considering she was 22 when it ended, I still find it impossible to believe that none younger than her outlived her. Even young children 15 or so years younger than Moore would have done some chores and been able to recall it. Are we really saying no slaves born in, for example, the year 1858 made it to the age of 90 (in 1948, the year Moore died)? MarkMc1990 (talk) 06:07, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with you. The possibility of another slave outliving Moore is entirely probable. However, Moore was probably the last slave that had proof. There were cases of living slaves which ran until the last claimant, Charlie Smith, died in 1979. Other cases include that of Sylvester Magee (1841 - 1971), a woman named Padelawa?, Mary Walker (1853 - 1969) and a man named Josephus whom, according to a collage created by 1963 Washington Marchers, is claimed to be the last living slave link. Personally, I believe that a more believable case is that of Alfred "Teen" Blackburn, a claimed confederate civil war veteran who was born into slavery and died in 1951 at 109. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemunz (talk • contribs) 00:19, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Last veterans of the Banana Wars
From what I have seen, I doubt there any living veterans of the Banana Wars (1898 to 1934). In addition to old age, the veterans could have been killed in other wars (WWI or WWII). Despite the majority of the marines having been born in the 1880s and 90s, the last surviving soldier that I have found died in 2004. However, there is a possibility that there are still some around. A marine born in 1910 or 1912 could be have been able to serve in the last years of the occupations and still be alive today. Now, Seeing as there were multiple interventions that made up the Banana Wars, I've decided to list the latest deaths from each that I could find.

Last veterans of additional conflicts
Similar to the Banana Wars Section, this is a collection of the last veterans of wars or conflicts that I could find. Input is welcomed.

sorting
It would be nice if the dates were properly sortable. (I don't know how.) Also, how about putting age in a separate sortable column? —Tamfang (talk) 18:43, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree this is a problem, since all it does is sort the dates alphabetically by month. In order to get the true chronological order of the dates, the date would have to be written in the format "YYYY-MM-DD" MarkMc1990 (talk) 00:34, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Order of Victory
Ex-king Michael of Romania is the last living holder of the Order of Victory. Worth mention? Not exactly an event, but some other medals are mentioned. —Tamfang (talk) 15:12, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

David Kinnison
This entry, while sourced is of questionable usefulness to be included here as it is a well known, verified fact that Kinnison was a fraud who long perpetuated his false claims as being a participant in the Boston Tea Party and attaining 115 years of age. Both have long since been shown to be outright lies; plenty of information is out there about this and well-done research long ago refuted it. He truly was a veteran of the War of 1812, born about 1766 in what is now southern Maine and died at age 85 in 1851. As for the "true" last survivor of the Tea Party, that does not seem to be known (though if someone finds a good, reliable source on that please include it). I would opt for removal of the Kinnison entry as it is entirely untrue (except for is name), albeit Mr. Kinnison did get considerable notoriety in his last years due to these claims, though it was not until about 1914 or so that in-depth research showed it was certainly untrue. Any thoughts? Austin023 (talk) 17:25, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

While I agree with you that it is probable that Mr. Kinnison did not live to be 115 years old, I would like to see some citations for the research that would disprove his claim. Also, if he is not the last survivor of the BTP, I suggest that the likely candidate would be George Robert Twelves Hewes, who died on Nov. 5, 1840 at 98 years old. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemunz (talk • contribs) 18:25, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

David Kinnison claim to have been a member of the Boston Tea Party at Hidden Truths Northwestern University He did serve briefly in the American Revolution-the American Rev. Mass Soldiers and Sailors series reports that the surname Kennison has several varations including Kennirson .Only David with this surname: "Kennirson. David. Return recruits sent by Massachusetts as portion of her quota of the Continental Army subsequent to Jan. 1, 1781, who were reported unfit for duty; 2d Mass Regt., age 17 years.; statute 4 ft. 9 in..; engaged for town of Lebanon; term 3 years; reported under size." nterestingly Allan Eckert In his winning of America series claims Kinnison was a survivor of the Fort Dearborn [ Chicago] Massacre of 1813 and was taken prisoner by Indians...

Ages of Living People
I think it would be helpful to include the ages of those record holders who are currently living, otherwise there is not really a way to gauge how old they were at the time of the event. MarkMc1990 (talk) 19:32, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

How about instead of posting their age, the known/claimed birth dates of the living survivors should be listed after the "living" status. So, what I suggest is that it look like this: |Theodore Van Kirk| Living (Born February 27, 1921)|... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemunz (talk • contribs) 23:16, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Now I'm wondering if we should inlude a column for their age at the time of the event MarkMc1990 (talk) 01:57, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Edit summary
I meant "an earlier officeholder (Egon Krenz) is still alive." I was typing in a hurry. Sorry about that. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 05:41, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Last Survivor of Second Anglo-Afghan War
Hugh Pinhey was outlived by Alfred Hawker (born 1858) - last British Army survivor. He is one of the "Oldest old soldiers" mentioned in The Guinness Book of Records (1972 - publisher Guinness Superlatives Ltd, page 196. He died on 10th December 1962 aged 104 years and 41 days.Cloptonson (talk) 13:46, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Suggested addition
I'd like to suggest that the 1945-1960 section have musician Joey D'Ambrosio (a.k.a. Joey Ambrose) added. As of May 25, 2013, he is the last surviving musician to have played on Bill Haley and His Comets' April 12, 1954 recording of "Rock Around the Clock", which was the song that launched the Rock and Roll era. He played tenor saxophone on the recording and is still living as of Nov. 1, 2014. (A second member of the Comets from that era, drummer Dick Richards, is also still alive, however he did not participate in the recording session for "Rock Around the Clock".) I believe "Rock Around the Clock" is of sufficient cultural importance to warrant inclusion. Guitarist Scotty Moore, who is also still alive, might also warrant inclusion as the last surviving musician who participated in Elvis Presley's first recording session for Sun Records in July 1954. Although most of the people in this list are deceased, I do see a couple of cases where people still alive are listed.68.146.52.234 (talk) 22:12, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree with adding Joey D'Ambrosio. I would, however, hesitate to add Scotty because although I recognize the significance of the session, I'm not sure that the session itself should be called a historical event. I would also suggest adding Martha Tilton who, as a part of Benny Goodman's band, basically legitimized Jazz in America at the 1938 concert at Carnegie Hall. Lemunz (talk) 00:44, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Last Survivor of an attempted lynching
In the Mid-West a man named Andrew Hatch who claims to be 116 (born in late 1898). I know this is probably not true but it does say in the same article (written about him saying he's 116) it says he survived a lynching in the 1920s. Not to diminish from James Cameron but Andrew may be the last survivor (I Dan tha Man I (talk) 14:12, 23 July 2015 (UTC))

slight tweak to sections
It seems odd to me that the sections suggest an overlap of years (for example, 1900 is listed in 1800-1900 and 1900-1915) - and also that events are not arranged by their end point (surely more sensible since that's the point a last survivor's length of survival would be measured from. For example, the last survivor of the reign of Queen Victoria is listed in the 1800-1900 section. Since she died in 1901, the last survivor need not have lived between 1800 and 1900. As such I've been bold and tweaked the sections fractionally. If the new arrangement seems worse, feel free to change it back. Grutness...wha?  00:32, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

John and Jesus
John the Apostle is listed as the last surviving witness from Golgotha, and the last apostle - this is not really stuff we can know according to the consensus of modern Biblical studies or 1st century history. Crucially, we don't know that the author of the book of Revelation is the same as John the Apostle of the gospels, nor do we know that "the disciple that the Lord loved" was actually John - both of those are just old traditions. And obviously there's no way we can know that John actually outlived every single other person who was present to watch Jesus being executed that day; it could be any child or woman unknown to history... How about just adding "(according to tradition)" to his entry in the table? 83.251.170.27 (talk) 06:35, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * He did outlive the other Apostles, but it's entirely possible that another witness at the Crucifixion outlived him. His entry is now noted according to that. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 21:25, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Cleanup Suggestions
As I see it, the article contains several entries that appear to be stretching the limit as to what could be considered an “historical event.” While there is not yet a list of criteria as to what should be included on this list, there should be some guidelines regarding what should not be on the article. I've organized the entries I have trouble with into these categories:

Entries we should avoid:
 * Last members of families
 * Last medal/award holders
 * Last speakers of languages: There is already a list for these
 * Last office holders
 * Last leaders to have served in “x”: i.e "Last Fijian prime minister to have served in WWII"

I've seen these all go on the list and, at times, I've added them as well but now I would not classify any of these as their own events.

Additional entries we should avoid:
 * Multiple living entries: "These two people are the two last survivors..."
 * Duplicate entries from other vet lists: last WWI vets by country, Last surviving vets of wars, etc

Entries we should keep:
 * last surviving witnesses of an event
 * last surviving participant of an event
 * last member of a historic group/ group that directly contributed to an event: i.e Gang of Four, Manhattan Project scientists, Nuremberg Trial Prosecutors, etc

All of the above, of course, should link to an event with a wiki article. Lemunz (talk) 09:54, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

I am guilty of adding some of these in recent days. I agree with you on the last of the family members, unless it is the last member of a Royal Family. I feel some veterans should be on here though. Especially World War I aces, since this is from the days of early aviation. Last surviving veterans of majors battles could be rolled last in to last surviving veterns of insurgencies. I would say the same for the medal recipients. Multiple living entries should be avoided. Feickus (talk) 15:13, 9 September 2016 (UTC)


 * That’s a good point. Royal families can be considered historical groups so keeping them would make sense. However, I would disagree on keeping the WWI aces. While it is interesting to know who the last was, I don’t find it too practical to add the last fighters of each nation, especially considering how many nations had aces. Having the last of each nation from WWI would also allow adding the last of each nation from WWII some day, to me, just taking more space. The same goes for last “medal holders” and “last leaders to have served in X:” There are simply too many medals to include the last holder of and too many wars to include the last leader who fought in them. I'd rather see them all go then continue to clutter up the list. Lemunz (talk) 19:31, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Reinhardt Hardegan possibly not last U-Boat captain.
There's a post on a German history forum that suggests Hardegan is not the last U-boat captain of WWII, merely the oldest living one. This post suggests that other surviving captains include Rudolf Arendt (born 1923), Horst Kessler (born 1914) , Claus-Peter Carlsen (born 1919) , and Hermann Neumeister (born 1923). Lemunz (talk) 05:05, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Heinrich Besold (b. 1920), Günther Reeder (b. 1915) , and Hans-Heinrich Giessler (b. 1911) might also be alive as well. Lemunz (talk) 02:06, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Just to update this information, Claus-Peter Carlsen died in August of 2016 . As of August 2017, Horst Kessler, who commanded U-704 and U-985, is still alive at 103 and living at Im Sohl so Hardegan is not the last U-boat capitan. Lemunz (talk) 23:21, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

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Rochus Misch not the last surviving occupant of the Führerbunker?
According to a July 6, 2017 article from The Independent there was a then 88 year-old woman named Johanna Ruf who spent time in the Führerbunker. It states that she was assigned to the bunker as one of 30 nurses from the Bund Deutscher Madel. Lemunz (talk) 06:08, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Petro Kalnyshevsky
Canadian Hello! Last commander of Russo-Turkish War of 1768–1774.--Yasnodark (talk) 13:07, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Harry Truman as last US President who served during WWI
This statement is not entirely accurate as Eisenhower was in the Army though stationed stateside during the war as a tank warfare instructor at Camp Colt. I would like know what other people think of how to characterize this. Ironically, Truman is to my knowledge the first US president who served in WWI, unless one counts FDR'S role as Naval Secretary as such.

- He was the last living president to serve in the First World War. He outlived Eisenhower by 3 or 4 years. Feickus (talk) 11:57, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Animals
Do we include animals on this list? (eg, the last dog to participated in the 9/11 rescues) In the past I've put horses who were the last survivors of historic battles, but was told this was only for human survivors. Bkatcher (talk) 20:25, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Last Monarch
Over the last few days User:Mr Hall of England has been posting Elizabeth II as the last queen of countries. I have no problem with the Queen being added for this reason, but I would recommend that they be compiled into one entry.Feickus (talk) 13:51, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Personally, I don't think that this article should ever include entries that have less than 2 participants. There is hardly any need to point out that someone is that last person to have done something when they were, like in Queen Elizabeth's case, the only person to have done it (i.e being the only monarch of a country/ state/ etc.). I also think that Monarchs in general should be avoided, seeing as how many there are / were and how many monarchies only had a small number of rulers throughout their existences. Lemunz (talk) 23:36, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Last war/battle Veterans
Lemunz and I have begun cleaning up the article by removing last veterns from the page and moving them to their respective counter part pages...ie Last US veterans, last European vets. Seeing how there were quite a few on the page it will take some time to move them. I would like to keep them on here as they are moved so it is easier to keep track of them. Feickus (talk) 12:18, 17 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Yes, the page is getting long, so it's good the surviving veterans have separate lists. FYI, I've been removing a bunch of related entries to war veterans, they are the ones for last monarchs or political leaders to serve in various wars.  It is interesting, but it seemed esoteric and not notable for a list about survivorship.  I believe I got all of them, but others should check.  --Ashawley (talk) 07:39, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

America-centric list
Does anyone else think this list is way too America-centric? Surely events and individuals such as the last WWII Veteran US Supreme Court judge; the last officer of an Easy Company battalion; the last Kennedy-Nixon debate participant; and the last speaker for the March on Washington has little international notability or significance. Perhaps one solution could be to create a new page specifically for last survivors of US historical events, in which case all the above examples would have relevance without question. --Thescrubbythug (talk) 11:25, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I would argue that this list is too West-centric, though I would assume that it's partly attributed to the lack of surviving written documents in other parts of the world, and also the lack of keeping information about everyday individuals, which is more of a thing in the West. Yourlocallordandsavior (talk) 01:12, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Last surviving cast member
We're getting a lot of these 'last surviving cast member' additions. Are these 'historical events'? And where do you draw the line? I don't want to see the last surviving cast member of 'Charles in Charge' one day. Bkatcher (talk) 13:42, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Academy Award Ceremonies and Space Shuttle Missions
Do we need to include the last winner/crew member of each of these, aside from the first? There were over a hundred of each of them. Bkatcher (talk) 16:19, 13 February 2020 (UTC)


 * I agree. The page for notable historical events is getting long and these types of categories that could have numerous entries should get their own page.  I'll even suggest another category that should be split off:  Last survivors of accidents and disasters, see disasters by death toll --Ashawley (talk) 07:54, 26 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I think the list could definitely be trimmed. I remember trimming it down a bit by moving many war-related entries onto existent lists that covered the same topics or even creating a new page that better covered the topic of last battle survivors. Right now it looks like a similar list could probably be made for last living heads of states given the amount of entries (last kings, queens, emperors, governors, etc.) already on this list.
 * I still feel a few entries on this list seem too niche to even be included, such as the last state leaders to participate in wars which seems redundant when, in some cases, only 1 or 2 leaders participated in the war and they seem overly American-centered by focusing mostly on U.S. conflicts (I would rather see these entries deleted than have the list further clogged up by including every last national leader to participate in the Napoleonic Wars or any other conflict).
 * Someone brought up the idea before of subdividing this list into specific regions (such as Last survivors of historic North American events). I think splitting it up into different topics such as, like you said, accidents and disasters, would probably help narrow what entries could be moved elsewhere in order to prevent this list from becoming too long. I feel the same could probably be done with sports events too. Lemunz (talk) 06:23, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Last players from FIFA World Cups
As far as I can see, Francisco Varallo is the only person listed as the last player from an entire FIFA World Cup tournament (namely 1930). Are there still two or more players from every other World Cup alive? Did for example any 1934 or 1938 participant survive René Llense? Or is there no interest to add any other last world cup survivors? --Gambuso (talk) 12:28, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Deleting last leaders who...
There are a number of entries that are of modern political leaders (presidents, monarchs, prime minister, ...) who are the last to either have served in a war, or were foreign born, be in a political party, etc. These are interesting facts, but they are not the spirit of an article about the last survivors of historical events. These are not the last survivors of those historical events in the general case. --Ashawley (talk) 15:15, 28 November 2020 (UTC)


 * William Henry Harrison - Last President of the United States to be born a British subject
 * Andrew Jackson - Last President of the United States to have served in the American Revolution
 * James Madison - Last sitting President of the United States to lead American troops in battle
 * James Buchanan - Last President of the United States to have served in the War of 1812
 * Juan Álvarez - Last President of Mexico who participated in the Mexican War of Independence
 * Ulysses S. Grant - Last President of the United States to have served in the Mexican–American War
 * Millard Fillmore - Last Whig President of the United States and last President who was neither a Democrat nor a Republican
 * Jefferson Davis - Last (and only) President of the Confederate States of America.
 * William McKinley - Last President of the United States to have served in the American Civil War
 * Harry Truman - Last former President of the United States to have served during World War I
 * Mike Mansfield - Last former member of the United States Congress to have served during World War I
 * Harold Macmillan - Last former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom to have served during World War I
 * John Diefenbaker - Last former Prime Minister of Canada to have served during World War I
 * John McEwen - Last former Prime Minister of Australia to have served during World War I
 * Charles De Gaulle - Last former President of France to have served during World War I
 * Ludwig Erhard - Last former Chancellor of Germany to have served during World War I
 * Gustav Heinemann - Last former President of Germany to have served during World War I
 * Edwin Arthur Hall - Last member of the United States Congress to vote on the United States declaration of war on Japan
 * Walter Scheel - Last German president to have served in World War II
 * Helmut Schmidt - Last Chancellor of Germany to have served in World War II
 * Helmut Kohl - Last Chancellor of Germany who was a member of the Hitler Youth
 * George H. W. Bush - Last United States President to have served in World War II overseas
 * Edward Heath - Last British Prime Minister to have served in World War II
 * Pierre Trudeau - Last Canadian Prime Minister to have served in World War II
 * Gough Whitlam - Last Australian Prime Minister to have served in World War II
 * Ninian Stephen - Last Governor-General of a Commonwealth realm to have served in World War II
 * John William Vessey Jr. - Last Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to have served in World War II
 * John Paul Stevens - Last United States Supreme Court Justice to have served in World War II
 * Prem Tinsulanonda - Last Thai prime minister to have served in World War II
 * Yasuhiro Nakasone - Last Japanese Prime Minister to have served in World War II
 * Valéry Giscard d'Estaing - Last French President to have served in World War II
 * Giorgio Napolitano - Last Italian President to have served in World War II
 * Jimmy Carter - Last United States President to have served in World War II stateside (received World War II Victory Medal) and to be born before World War II


 * I agree with the removal of these. Many seem nit-picky to begin with, such as Jimmy Carter being included as the last to serve state side and the last born before WWII. I'd rather see these entries go then continue on with including the last United States Secretary of Agriculture to serve in WWII. Lemunz (talk) 23:21, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

I've added Helmut Kuhl to the list above. --Ashawley (talk) 15:10, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

I've deleted the 33 entries. They may be notable somewhere, but they don't seem like the spirit of this article. I'm not sure if could be put somewhere else, but that's why they're on the discussion page here in case someone wants to revive them elsewhere. --Ashawley (talk) 18:52, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

I noticed that I missed this entry.


 * Carl Vinson - Last member of the United States Congress to vote on the United States declaration of war on Germany

It's been removed. --Ashawley (talk) 15:03, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Delete Cardinals/Popes?
This list is chock full of survivors of run of the mill events. A conclave that elects a pope is run of the mill, as is being appointed by a certain pope. I propose deleting such entries, but will wait a bit for any discussion. schetm (talk) 17:00, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree, that's getting ponderous. Bkatcher (talk) 20:13, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I also agree. Lemunz (talk) 20:42, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Done. schetm (talk) 00:55, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Very good idea. Thanks. --Ashawley (talk) 14:54, 5 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The Year of the Three Popes (as 1978 is known in Catholic history) is a very special case. Outside of that, I agree that we shouldn't include any other "last Pope of" given era, nor any other "last Cardinal appointed by" given Pope. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 00:27, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

There is a potential case for Cardinal Mariano Rampolla - last cardinal to be subjected to the jus exclusivae.

Given that there could be long lists of 'Last [Andorran... zoologist] born in the [given century]' that alone would not be sufficiently notable for this page. Jackiespeel (talk) 20:07, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Last Descendants
Do last descendants of famous historical figures count as last survivors? As recommended by Bkatcher, since there are several last descendants of King/Queen X during their lifetime included, should last descendants of notable individuals also be included (even though these are not "events" per se? E. g. Robert Todd Lincoln Beckwith as the last undisputed descendant of Abraham Lincoln. -- Psycharpax (talk) 19:02, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I worry we're going to get article bloat if we include the last descendant of every US President here, let alone authors and other notables. Royalty may be an exception, due to the hereditary nature of royal titles. Anyone else want to weigh in? Bkatcher (talk) 19:12, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Last members of royal or noble houses can be added to List of last scions, while the last descendants of non-royal historical individuals can be added to List of last descendants of notable individuals. Psycharpax (talk) 16:01, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Lobotomized combat veterans?
Tragic, but is it notable? There were tens of thousands of lobotomies performed in the US, I wouldn't call this instance notable. Bkatcher (talk) 19:55, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Article scope
Half of the people listed here do not relate to "events". Empires, kingdoms, titles, etc are not "events". I think either these should be deleted and moved to a new article, or otherwise this article should be renamed. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 06:33, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree. Some don't even make sense. Haris Silajdžić is neither the last nor the last surviving prime minister of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina. His predecessor Mile Akmadžić is still alive. --Killuminator (talk) 14:34, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I think some monarchs should at least stay. Even the article doesn't mention anything about excluding monarchs (unless someone reads this and includes that, of course). I would prefer for historically significant and/or non-Western monarchs to have a priority to stay on this list, as this list is already very Western-heavy. For instance, I included an entry for Uthumphon, the penultimate king of the 400-year-old Ayutthaya Kingdom (Siam), who was deposed by his brother and was forced to enter the monkhood in 1758, before being taken prisoner by the Burmese, during the 1767 Burmese sack of Ayutthaya, and ultimately lived out the rest of his days in exile in Burma, until his death in 1796, thereby becoming the last surviving Ayutthayan monarch (his brother and successor, King Ekkathat, died shortly after the sack, supposedly starving to death while in hiding). If we're not to include historic events in Asia and/or Africa and elsewhere on this article, on which other then? Yourlocallordandsavior (talk) 03:44, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Can sole survivors count as last survivors?
Even if they were present at a historically significant event? Yourlocallordandsavior (talk) 21:25, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Can we have some exceptions for non-European rulers?
The list feels very West-oriented, and while I get excluding most monarchs from the list, I feel that there needs to be certain exceptions for non-European monarchs, so that the list is less disproportionately biased towards Europe and the Americas. Yourlocallordandsavior (talk) 20:11, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Can someone please fix the table for the 1916–1930 Section?
Because that table is very messed up right now. Can someone (less bogged down in the real world than I currently am) please figure out the syntax to make that table right again? Thank you in advance. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 02:25, 4 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Done. schetm (talk) 06:47, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you! The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 01:32, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

"False removals and additions"
@WikiCleanerMan Please explain, why my removals / additions are "false". When Stanislaw Kania is considered as "Last leader of the Polish United Workers' Party" and Edward Babiuch as "Last Prime Minister of the Polish People's Republic", why is Nikolay Ryzhkov not the last premier of the Soviet Union? Does "last" actually mean "last living" (then Ryzhkov must be included instead of Silayev) or last chronologically (then the inclusion of Kania and Babiuch is false). What do other users think about that? Sersou (talk) 22:57, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Ivan Silayev is the last PM of the Soviet Union. Not Nikolay Ryzhkov. Mieczysław Rakowski is the last leader of the Polish United Workers' Party. Not Stanislaw Kania. Czesław Kiszczak is the last PM of Communist Poland. Not Edward Babiuch. If you read the articles you would know. Besides, if you're going to add names to the list, you shouldn't remove names because it comes off as nonconstructive. Last living counts but not for politicians who were the last people who served in a certain office. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 23:56, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Then correct it. Why don't you remove Kania and Babiuch then? Be consequent. Sersou (talk) 06:16, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Fix issue with 1961-1999 table
There is a strange extra column. Also, something about the last survivor and one date in that wrong column. Someone, please, figure out how to fix that issue. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 04:36, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Last participant of the Cowra breakout
According to the wikipedia page about the Cowra breakout, the last survivor of the breakout attempt, Teruo Murakami, died in Japan on September 14 2023. Thomas edlund (talk) 20:45, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

1883 Eruption of Krakatoa?
This is a strange one, but since the soundwave of the 1883 Eruption of Krakatoa circled the earth several times, and killed 36,417 people, would that theoretically mean that the last living person alive when it happened was the last survivor? or is this one too vague, or I am wrong in some other way?

Also upon checking the list of oldest verified people, I discovered that if this really did count, that the last surviving person alive when it happened (worldwide) was the 3rd oldest verified person ever, Sarah Knauss, who was born on September 24, 1880, and died on December 30, 1999 PakistinianHurricane (talk) 03:45, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Last Hellenistic monarch
Cleopatra is listed in the article as "the last Greek Hellenistic ruler", this should be revised as the Indo-Greeks survived into the Common Era. Strato III, maybe? The article "Timeline of the Indo-Greek kingdoms" also mentions a Theodamas fl. 1st century. Cleopatra could be listed as "the last independent ruler of ancient Egypt" as although she may have been from a Greek family (the Ptolemaic dynasty), her dynasty had ruled Egypt for almost 300 years with Cleopatra herself being able to understand Egyptian. 86.159.226.13 (talk) 18:49, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Henry Kissinger? and another one.
I already asked a question on this page, regarding the Krakatoa eruption, but I feel like that one is most likely a no. As is Henry Kissinger, who until his death on November 29, 2023, was the last surviving member of Richard Nixon's cabinet. I don't know if this counts, but I feel like it might, as many other ones just like this count.

One that I'm a bit more confident on is Sigmund Kozma, who was the last survivor of the Millfield Mine disaster on November 5, 1930, until his death on January 3, 2009. However I also don't entirely know if this one belongs, as it's not a very historically significant disaster, but I thought I'd ask about it anyways. PakistinianHurricane (talk) 15:44, 1 February 2024 (UTC)


 * I thought it was pretty much accepted that US presidential cabinet members don't get included for that reason alone. That's actually one of the first entries on this Talk page.  But I think the last Millfield Mine disaster survivor could be added here, as there are several entries regarding other events of this sort, some very well known and others not.  It would raise awareness that such a disaster took place.  I'd say go for that one, but of course neither I nor anybody else is a final judge of entries here. Smamros (talk) 00:57, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * fair enough.
 * One that is on the list but I think shouldn't be is Yuri Yudin, the last (and only) Dyatlov Pass survivor. I mean, if we're including sole survivors, then that would need so many more to be added, including every single sole survivor of a plane crash (there's an entire list of these on this site as well), but Juliane Koepcke (LANSA Flight 508) and Vesna Vulovic (JAT Flight 367) are two specific examples. There's also Dennis Hale, the sole survivor of the sinking of the Daniel J Morrell, Alessio Bertrand, the sole survivor of the Moby Prince disaster, and Alessandra Piovesana, the sole survivor of the (1976) Cavalese cable car disaster, among so many others. PakistinianHurricane (talk) 12:42, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The issue of sole survivors has come up before, but it certainly hasn't been resolved. If it is decided that they shouldn't be here, that should be mentioned at the top of the article; right now it isn't. Smamros (talk) 14:22, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Last surviving American born during X's presidency
Someone added a lot of these, and I'm not sure. With the majority of the population not really in the records in the early days of the nation, and with US presidents serving much shorter terms compared to European monarchs, I'm not sure if this is something we need. Thoughts? Bkatcher (talk) 16:42, 7 March 2024 (UTC)


 * I think they should get removed. What do you think of entries like the last surviving subject of Country Y's monarch Z?  I think those should go as well. Smamros (talk) 15:35, 22 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Removed along with last subject born during King/Queen's monarchy. Feickus (talk) 11:59, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Criteria for astronaut/cosmonaut inclusions?
With the continued passing of astronauts from the Gemini and Apollo eras, it's hard to know where to draw the line for which events are worthy of adding to this list and which ones aren't. I'm even beginning to question some of the entries and edits I've made recently, even though I'm just following precedent in entries others have added in the past.

Some background on this: With the recent passing of Thomas Stafford, Jim Lovell is now the only surviving member of the second group of NASA astronauts, known by many as the "Next Nine". These astronauts served as the backbone of Projects Gemini and Apollo, with individual and collective accomplishments that speak for themselves. So I certainly think Lovell should be included, and I added that entry. But in looking ahead at later groups of astronauts from that same decade, I saw that Robert Crippen, from NASA Astronaut Group 7, is the last surviving member of that group. He was also already listed as being the last of Manned Orbiting Laboratory Group 2, and separately as the last member of STS-1, the first Space Shuttle flight. So I just unified those entries, and added the mention of NASA Astronaut Group 7 there as well. But with all due respect to Crippen, the Manned Orbiting Laboratory was cancelled before flying, and STS-1's crew was only two astronauts (the other being the late John Young). But then again, STS-1 was the very first Shuttle flight, so... See my dilemma here?

My worry is that we're going to end up with too many listing for these astronauts over time, and at some future date somebody's going to chop a lot of these entries out without due consideration of what should be considered important and what isn't. So I'm going to take a shot at setting some criteria for inclusion for astronaut crews and groups of astronauts, with the understanding that some of this is subjective. Here goes:

1. Projects that never flew and which have little historic significance otherwise should not be included. This would remove the Manned Orbiting Laboratory entries for starters. But then what about the Man In Space Soonest project by the US Air Force, which never got off the ground? This would actually remove Neil Armstrong's name from the list.

2. Individual space flights with two or fewer crew members should not be listed, except if it is either the first flight of a given type of spacecraft, or the last person who flew in a given type of spacecraft. This would allow John Young to be kept for the first Gemini flight, but would eliminate entries for the other Gemini flights, until we get to the point where there is only one last Gemini astronaut alive (as of this writing we're down to three of them). The first flight criterion would also allow Robert Crippen to be kept for STS-1.

3. Individual space flights with three or more crew members can be listed. This allows the Apollo flights to continue to be included, as they have been for a long time now.

4. Groupings of NASA astronauts by their selection groups should be kept, at least for now. We have entries already for the first group (John Glenn of the Mercury Seven), the second (Jim Lovell), and the seventh (Robert Crippen). All other groups have two or more surviving members. The only question is how far forward we want to keep doing this, as there are now 23 NASA astronaut groups, with applications for Group 24 under way now.

We should probably have the same or equivalent criteria for the Soviet/Russian cosmonauts, though I am less informed on their history overall. From what I see of the existing entries for cosmonauts, there isn't much if any trimming required there.

Suggestions and comments are welcome. If I don't hear from anyone else in a week, I will start editing some existing entries out according to the criteria I listed above. Smamros (talk) 15:18, 22 March 2024 (UTC)


 * No responses. I've given this some more thought, and would like to change the my proposed criteria for NASA astronaut inclusion.
 * 1. After reading more about the Man In Space Soonest and Manned Orbiting Laboratory programs, I'm keeping their entries in for now. If someone in the future wants to do some more trimming, this would probably be the place to start.
 * 2. Project Mercury: one entry for the last Mercury astronaut (John Glenn).
 * 3. Project Gemini: one entry for the last of the first Gemini crew (John Young) and one entry for the last Gemini astronaut from any mission (TBD).
 * 4. Apollo program: one entry for the last survivor of each mission, plus notations for the last Apollo moonwalker and the last Apollo astronaut from any mission.
 * 5. Space Shuttle: with 135 missions, including the last crew member of every flight is not sustainable. So keep it to the last crew member of the inaugural flight for each of the five orbiters, plus the last Space Shuttle astronaut from any mission when the time comes (probably not until decades from now).
 * 6. Astronaut selection groups: for now imposing a cutoff at Group 7, the last group selected in the 1960s. Somebody else in the future can decide if they want to include later astronaut selection groups.
 * I'll leave this open for further comments for a few days, then if no objections I'll start the trimming. Smamros (talk) 13:27, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I made the edits according to the second round of criteria I listed. This resulted in the following changes:
 * - Removed entries for James McDivitt (Gemini 4) and Ken Mattingly (STS-4).
 * - Removed reference to Gemini 8 for David Scott, who is still listed for Apollo 15.
 * - Removed reference to STS-2 for Joe Engle, who is still listed for being the last X-15 pilot.
 * - Removed reference to STS-3 for Jack Lousma, who is still listed for Skylab 3.
 * I regret having to remove the entries for McDivitt and Mattingly, and certainly mean no disrespect to either one of them, but it's impossible to rationalize keeping them in light of the criteria. Keeping McDivitt would mean having to add entries for the remaining Gemini flights to be consistent; keeping Mattingly would require entries for all of the Space Shuttle flights, which would get more unwieldy as time moves on.
 * I also moved John Glenn's entry to align with the date of the announcement of the Mercury Seven's selection, since his previous placement had him listed chronologically after Jim Lovell for the Next Nine, which really doesn't make logical sense. I'd think even Jim Lovell would agree with that (hope he's doing well).
 * Questions, comments, discussions are welcome here. I may take on an attempt at rationalizing entries for the Soviet cosmonauts next, based on what I can find here on Wikipedia and elsewhere online, but would welcome input from anyone more knowledgeable about them. Smamros (talk) 20:55, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi🙂 I'm the one who added some of the astronauts on the list so I wanted to join your discussion. From my point of view, every space flight with at least 2 crew members is an historical event because of its significance for mankind,that is why I started adding some of the Gemini astronauts and the ones of the STS. Regarding the Shuttle missions,it is true that the list is only going to grow,but that will take many decades since from STS-5 onwards the crews consisted of at least 5 members. Considering that some of the events that are considered historical enough to be reported are sports matches, orchestra members or radio programs,I think that all the entries for the astronauts should be reverted. 2001:B07:6474:D0A3:14E0:1384:C5:271B (talk) 17:28, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Adding all of the individual Gemini flights would result in eight new entries to the list at present, with a ninth eventually since both Gemini 12 astronauts are still living. But only four of those would be unique entries (McDivitt, Cooper, Collins, Gordon); the other four would be duplicates of men who are already listed as being last for their Apollo missions, or in the case of Lovell, the last of the Next Nine.  And Gemini 12 will result in a duplicate entry for either Lovell or Aldrin.
 * The other problem with adding individual Gemini flights is that it would set a precedent for adding all of the individual Soyuz flights, which would eventually number over 150 of them (and still counting!). That's just too many, which is the same problem I have with the Shuttle flights.
 * Since this is Wikipedia, there is no ultimate authority on who gets added to this list, so I'm not going to be able stop anyone who feels strongly enough to do the adding. But I don't think too many people want to see the number of astronauts and cosmonauts here multiplied tenfold or twentyfold over the next couple of decades, which could be where we're headed if we start adding all of the individual Shuttle and Soyuz missions. Smamros (talk) 14:59, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, but in light of the duplicate entries that will be available, and of the time it will take for the list to become overcrowded with astronauts and cosmonauts (we're talking literal decadee), I still think they should be reverted. It's useful information, and more historical IMHO of football matches, radio shows, tv shows and such 2001:B07:6474:D0A3:25A4:6FAE:188:DC3D (talk) 18:38, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * With the sad passing of William Anders in a plane crash, Jim Lovell has an entry added as the last crew member of Apollo 8. I'm now thinking that the entries for the last members of NASA astronaut selection groups are no longer necessary, as all of the men in that category (Glenn, Lovell, and Crippen) are included on this list anyways for being last crew members on their respective missions (Project Mercury, Apollo 8, and STS-1).  And since I'm the guilty party for adding the selection group entries, I can just as easily remove them.  So I'll do that, hopefully later today. Smamros (talk) 13:47, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Plus doing so aligns the entries for their space missions in mission chronological order, which is what I think most people expect to see. Though it should be pointed out that eventually at least one of the Apollo missions will be out of order, as the last Gemini astronaut will be either Lovell, Scott, or Aldrin, all of whom are already on the list for being the last of their Apollo missions, not to mention that Scott and Lovell could also end up being last for Apollos 9 and 13, respectively. Smamros (talk) 13:51, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Since I found this, I'll come here to add my opinion. I think the inclusion of every one of the space missions are pretty excessive. Other than Apollo 11 and 13, how many people (those not knowledgable in space travel) remember the other Apollo missions. Besides the two I mentioned, we should include the first and last Apollo missions, the first space shuttle mission and the first and last of its type. We don't need a listing for every one of them. SpacedFarmer (talk) 19:42, 10 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Well, there's your opinion, then there's the opinion of the person with the IPv6 address who wants to include all of the two-person Gemini missions and all 100+ of the Space Shuttle missions (eventually). Sounds like the best compromise is to stick with what we have at present.  The precedent of listing all the Apollo missions was set long before I found this list, so unless a lot of people really have a problem with that, "don't fix what isn't broken". Smamros (talk) 20:45, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Your argument is that we should also have a listing for every last survivors for each one of those events, Olympic athletes (since removed), FIFA World Cup footballers (also since removed), F1 drivers, etc? I still say, remove a small selection of them unless they hold some significance such as the Apollo 11 mission. Wikipedia is meant for everybody, not just crufty nerds. SpacedFarmer (talk) 09:30, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not making an argument in favor of any of those other categories. I'm specifically talking about the Apollo missions, which you may not see as being significant, but others do.  You've made your opinion known, and I've made mine, and the person with the IPv6 address has made theirs; let's see if anyone else cares enough to also chime in. Smamros (talk) 12:06, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Bockscar - Nagasaki Mission crew
I have been researching the crew on Bockscar during the atomic bombing of Nagasaki and searching for obituaries for each crew member listed on the Bockscar Wikipedia page it seems to be that Captain Charles Donald "Don" Albury (who died in 2009) is the last but I can't find any source to corroborate this (or disprove it for that matter).

Counting the "regularly assigned crew" I found that Leonard A Godfrey Jr. made it to 2011 (per. https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/ahf/profile/leonard-godfrey-jr/)

So I think these two are the last crew members of their respective aircraft on that day but I could very possibly be wrong and wanted to ask for any help or sources confirming this or otherwise.

Thanks in advance! EnteraUserName134 (talk) 06:15, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

War veterans are not be added to the lists. There are separate lists for them. Feickus (talk) 16:45, 5 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Yes, there is a separate list of last survivors of various wars, meaning the war in its entirety. The many entries of war veterans in this list, however, reference specific events during a given war (last USS Arizona survivor, for example, who just passed away a couple months ago), and that would apparently include the last surviving crew members of the planes involved in the two atomic bombings.  If they shouldn't be included here, perhaps new lists should be added somewhere for these wartime events.  I don't think it's proper to erase the entries completely without having another place for them. Smamros (talk) 00:47, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * And now I see that Wikipedia has List of last surviving World War II veterans. If someone has the time to go through all the entries on this list for those, make sure any that belong on the other list get put there, then delete from this list, feel free to do so. Smamros (talk) 20:50, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

This page is a goddamn mess
Just went through the first two categories to remove the sheer number of cruft and man is there so much more. I'm genuinely considering nominating this for deletion because of its apparently indiscriminate listing of random people who are not notable as "last survivors". Many of the listed here are not even supposed to be on the page based on its own criteria: namely the random "last monarchs of xyz dynasty" that are covered on many other lists (e.g., List of the last monarchs in Europe). The fact that the Turkana Boy was listed as "the last for convenience" as the very first element on this page (before I yeeted it into the sun) should be evidence enough that there is major problem with this list.

Can we agree to restrict this page to people who are notable for instead of people who are  last survivors of arbitrary categories? Samuel J. Seymour is notable for being the last survivor to see Abraham Lincoln killed, sure. But Queen Victoria is not notable for being the last reigning monarch of the House of Hanover (she's notable because she's fucking Queen Victoria.) Far too many of those included on this list, like Joseph Collins (neurologist), are just the last surviving members of random groups (in Collins' case, founders of the Neurological Institute of New York) which sometimes have as little as four members or less (like Jim Crowley from the Four Horsemen of Notre Dame.) None of this is useful, interesting, notable, or worth cataloguing. wound theology ◈  14:54, 20 June 2024 (UTC)


 * First, the number of people involved in an event does not change the fact whether it is a historical event or not, so anything with three or more people that is clearly a historical event should be included (would you get rid of Apollo 11 because it only had three people?). Second, there is nothing stopping people famous for other things from being included on this page, just because Winston Churchill is famous for being Winston Churchill does not mean he is also not the last survivor of the Tehran conference. Third, I agree that monarchs and veterans should be removed as they have there own pages, but just because something is more specific does not mean it should not be included, as long as it doesn’t have its own page and is historical it is more than fair game for this page. “Historical event” is a broad term and thus this page is very broad, while it does have its problems and can use cleaning up (as with the monarchs and veterans, key world is veterans as other survivors of wartime events should still be present), you cannot make the decision to remove anything with less than three people as there are many events with three-five-eight-whatever number people that are clearly historical and making such a big decision is silly. EnteraUserName134 (talk) 16:50, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. As the list stands, it is largely an indiscriminate collection, and if "historical event" is so broad that anything event Wikipedia that includes three or more people can warrant a listing here, then it should be deleted as overly-broad, just like how List of hobbies was deleted for being inclusive of anything. This list should be for people who are actually notable for the last survivor of an event, not for people who are  the last survivor of some event -- like what seems to be the vast majority of inclusions on this page. Most of the people listed here don't even have references or mentions of the "survivorship" on their own pages, i.e. it's borderline WP:OR. Turkana boy and the Apostle John are perfect examples of the sort of listcruft that should be culled (and I did cull.)  wound theology  ◈  17:13, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I totally agree with the cull of Apostle John, Turkana boy, the monarchs and other “final” political office holders. I just think a restriction on something such as the number of people being involved in an event is not the way to go about it (as I mentioned it would cause the removal of things that clearly ARE historical events like the Apollo missions). Along with that, I think people who are famous for other reasons should still be able to be included as removing them would just create an unnecessary restriction, the title of the article is “list of last survivors of historical events” that indicates nothing that person must only be famous for said survivorship. Again, I agree an overhaul is needed (for the aforementioned things) but I also don’t think that we should set such harsh restrictions on what can/cannot be added in future. EnteraUserName134 (talk) 19:24, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The Apollo missions are one thing. If there is adequate sourcing talking about the final survivor of so-and-so event, then sure, why not. But many people listen do not have adequate sourcing. wound theology  ◈  22:28, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I do think it’s worth doing at least a quick search to find if a claim is true before deleting it. Certain claims, while not directly sourced, link to the page with a list of people where it can be seen that they are the last survivor so I’m sure it wouldn’t be hard to find a source for those, but if you can’t find it feel free to delete the entry. Other than the monarchs and political leaders a lot of the problems are within the 1701-1930(ish) section of this page, which makes sense seeing as those are harder to source so I don’t think that should be too hard to clean up.
 * Glad we’ve been able to come to an agreement on that.
 * This is a personal request, but when you’re deleting entries it would be nice if you deleted them few at a time so certain disagreements regarding specific entries can be more easily argued within having to mass undo massive edits. Thanks EnteraUserName134 (talk) 23:57, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm in favor of a big overhaul. Too many political office holders for one. Killuminator (talk) 17:00, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Agreed that a lot of the office holders should be removed, especially because at the end of many of the nations there was already only the one leader (like Gorbachev in the Soviet Union) EnteraUserName134 (talk) 19:27, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

No Turkana Boy means no Bretagne
In response to the removal of Turkana Boy, I have removed Bretagne, the last 9/11 rescue dog.

After all, Turkana Boy was a member of the Genus Homo, the human genus!

If a human but a non-modern one isn't human enough for this list, than don't you dare tell me a dog somehow is! The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 04:36, 29 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I didn't remove the Turkana Boy because he wasn't human. I removed him because he wasn't the last known survivor of any historical event, he just happens to be the latest specimen we have. He certainly wasn't the last . It had nothing to do with if he was "human" or not.  wound theology  ◈  06:31, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I just checked the revision history and it seems like you originally added Turkana Boy. Please refrain from using arguments about WP:OTHERCONTENT, or from making edits "in response" to edits you don't agree with. If you have an issue with the removal of Turkana Boy, then bring it up here.  wound theology  ◈  06:48, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, I did bring it up here. Not human, doesn't belong. Make a separate list of "List of non-human last survivors" or something like that.
 * There are 2 things I can say justifying Turkana Boy:
 * To write off Prehistory as ahistorical, is to lend credence to the idea that there's room for debate whether it happened at all. Lest you forget, there are still people who believe that the Universe is only 6,000 years old, and there's a moral duty to society to discourage that.
 * From Homo ergaster to Homo erectus is the only chronospeciation (only 1:1 change from one to the next) in human history. In all other cases, one ancestral species split into multiple subgroups that became species onto their own. That unique event is notable, even if it is (admittedly) arbitrary where paleo-anthropologists chose to draw the borderline in an otherwise very gradual change from H. ergaster to H. erectus.
 * And while I'm still here, the idea that last monarchs should only count if they're relatively recent, is weird and inconsistent. Kings Manuel II of Portugal and Fuad II of Egypt belong on the list, but yet Cleopatra as the last Queen of Ancient Egypt, and Romulus Augustus as the last Western Roman Emperor do not? Interesting. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 19:59, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The thing is turkana boy is not actually the last Homo ergaster, just the last we know about. Not only is it just incorrect but also not a historical event. Bretagne survivability verifiable AND a historical event (9/11) and so is unlike turkana boy. The Creating of a separate page for “non human list survivors of historical events” is pointless, there would be almost nothing on there. EnteraUserName134 (talk) 20:44, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, I did bring it up here -- no, you removed a legitimate entry in response to the removal of an addition you supported as retaliation. Not human, doesn't belong -- there's nothing in the criteria that says only humans belong on this page. This is a total non-starter. To write off Prehistory as ahistorical, is to lend credence to the idea that there's room for debate whether it happened at all -- history is largely historiography, i.e. writing. Prehistory is just that, prior to history. That being said, no one even argued that. From to is the only chronospeciation [i]n human history...[t]hat unique event is notable -- hard disagree, even if the "event" itself is notable (it isn't actually an event), it has nothing to do with "last survivors." Turkana Boy was objectively and irrefutably not the last, unlike Bretagne, who was objectively and irrefutably the last rescue dog who worked during 9/11. And while I'm still here, the idea that last monarchs should only count if they're relatively recent, is weird and inconsistent -- check the edit history and you'll see we're removing all monarchs, not just modern ones. You should help and remove them too.  wound theology  ◈  22:34, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Governor generals and other political leaders
With the recent mass deletion of monarchs and other political leaders, I would like to ask where the line should be drawn.

I think that there are two possible good methods to solving this problem.


 * 1) Remove all heads of state and create a page for the surviving heads of state - I don't think the entries on heads of state, even monarchs and dictatorships should be outright removed and not chronicled somewhere else. That just feels like deleting information to make this page more concise and for no other reason.
 * 2) Only include leaders where more than two former leaders were alive at the time the state became defunct - This would keep monarchs and dictators out of the list as they are often the sole surviving heads of state but would require the re-adding of some leaders (like the last president of the Polish government in exile). Personally, I am partial to this option as it will provide helpful information to those who are looking for it without creating unnecessary entires. The way I see it is that if the British monarchy stopped existing tomorrow there would only be one former king (Charles III) so adding him would be redundant, but if the United States presidency stopped existing tomorrow there would be many surviving former presidents (Carter, Clinton, Bush Jr., Obama, Trump and Biden) and if say Obama was the last surviving of this group that would be useful information for someone searching for it. This would also require the least work as it would only lead to the revival of a few deleted entries.

Also, unrelated but can someone fix the mangled entries at the top of the 1901-1915 section I am not familiar with the dates that should be there EnteraUserName134 (talk) 02:40, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I'd toss them out completely to be honest, the entry for Haris Silajdžić as the last surviving Prime Minister of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina is wrong. Mile Akmadžić is still alive as well. In practices, these are usually the last titleholders and being a political leader is not an event. I'd have preferred editors kept Henry IV of England as the last surviving Lord Appellant because it tied him to a particular event. Him being a monarch (something he became later, after the even) was incidental and I don't think the deleting editor took that into account. Killuminator (talk) 12:25, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I mean yea, option 3 I guess is just tossing them all. Not the biggest deal in the world, just wanted some consensus.
 * As for Henry IV, I'd just add him back and explain your reasoning in your edit description. I've added a few people back that have been deleted and it hasn't been a problem. EnteraUserName134 (talk) 15:22, 30 June 2024 (UTC)