Talk:List of lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender-related films/Archive 1

The Rocky Horror Picture Show
how 'bout The Rocky Horror Picture Show? isn't it about a breakthrough movie because it featured a gay [actually, bi] alien as the main character during the 70's?

Issa 00:57, 5 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Rebel Without a Cause
It's been a long time since I saw Rebel Without a Cause (nearly 15 years), but wasn't the homosexuality in it all implicit or imagined? --KQ


 * RWAC definately has strong homo-erotic undertones, esp the relationship between Sal Mineo & James Dean. Watch it again, it's glaringly obvious. Also the bit where Mineo opens his locker, which is lined with body builder photos IIRC (it's been 5 or 6 years since I last saw it, tho we have it on video, my partner is a big Jimmy dean fan). So in answer to your query, yes, the gay element is implicit, but probably the strongest they could get away with at the time, and indeed all the more powerful for being implicit rather than explicit. Does it belong in this list? definately yes IMHO quercus robur 00:45 Jan 6, 2003 (UTC)


 * Dean told Mineo (who was openly gay in real life and who fancied Dean) to feel free to use desire for Dean in the film, though glances, touches, etc. In many of the images in the film, the sexual tension between the two is quite noticable because of this. Indeed the producers were not at all happy at the gay sexual undertones in the film, which were already in the script but which were played to maximum effect (at least maximum effect in the era of the Hays code) by Dean and Mineo. Natalie Wood in particular found the intensity of Mineo's and Dean's performances with each other in the film quite shocking and hard to act against.
 * The real-life of said actors has nothing to do with the film as a work per se (Should we remove Philadelphia because Tom Hanks and Antonio Banderas are straight?). RWAC had no openly LGBT characters or themes. Including it here is mere speculation. I am removing these types of films since they are not germane to the topic. Davodd 22:55, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)


 * Removing "Rebel" is like removing Judy Garland or Barbara Streisand from a list of Gay Icons because they are not a lesbians. The film is filled with homo-erotic touches.  Sal Mineo's character was about as overt as possible when the film was made.  That it isn't in the script doesn't mean it is not there.  Even if you don't see all this when you watch the film, it is still LGBT related because of the effect it has had on decades of LGBT viewers.  I'm putting it back.  This is a good candidate for annotation, and I'm hoping someone takes on the task of adding comments to all the films.  --Samuel Wantman 00:59, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * The gay undertones in Rebel were very much featured in The Celluloid Closet (a documentary on the portrayal of homosexuality on film through the last 100 years); it should definitely be there. I might well take notes from the docu, next time I watch it, and incorporate some into this article. &mdash; OwenBlacker 17:15, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)

Rope
I've added Hitchcock's Rope to the list as I think it's certainly implicit that the couple (based on Leopold & Loeb) are in a gay relationship. Does this count as a listing criteria? quercus robur 00:53 Jan 6, 2003 (UTC)
 * Not exactly model citizens, but yes, I think it does. Koyaanis Qatsi


 * I didn't think they were portrayed as gay at all. They are roomates who both attend the same college.  Wasn't one of them engaged or with girlfriend or something? -- Ô¿Ô

The 'girlfriend' in the script was an add on to keep the censors happy but there was no doubt as to gay subtext in the film, symbolised by items on the set, and was based on real life murderers who were a gay couple. Hitchcock had to disguise some of the gay aspects of the film through symbolism to get it around the Hays code. But there is no doubt whatsoever that the film had a gay subtext and indeed a type of gay code which was recognised by Hitchcock, the actors and gay viewers but which went over the heads of those inforcing the Hays code of censorship and most heterosexual viewers. Many viewers only grasped the meaning later when the symbolism was highlighted. Quite a few films involving Barbara Stanwyck also used a lesbian code which again the Hays people never got but which clued in viewers did, especially those who knew that Barbara was lesbian herself. Similarly a gay subtext existed in Ben-Hur, one which hilariously everyone on set but Charleton Heston knew about. It is only when one either spots the use of symbolism that one breaks the code and when that is done, quite a few big Hollywood films of the 1920s to early 1960s suddenly look a whole lot different.

Hitchcock was a master of such code-creating. Cary Grant acted in a number of films which such codes were used. His own bisexuality was an open secret in Hollywood and some times he played on that in films that to the viewer meant one thing but to fellow actors were clear as day; he went too far one day when making one particular joke which hinted loving to play with balls when the mood took him (tennis balls, supposedly in the script!). His decision to wink to camera in an outtake that obviously could not be used led him to be hauled before a producer and warned to be a "bit more careful." Tony Curtis's use of Grant's voice in Some Like it Hot also touched on Grant's bisexuality, given that his Cary Grant soundalike supposedly had difficulty being aroused by women, a dig at Grant, his many failed marriages and ability in all the marriages to father only one child. The irony was that in these films where homosexuality was hinted at symbolically but not explicitly stated because of the Hays code, gays could be shown almost as normal. In contrast, later films after the abolition of the Hays code tended to treat opnly gay characters in negative ways. Even if they were accepted, they invariably were the victim, or they died, etc. A normal gay character leading a normal gay life that doesn't involve Aids, murder, death, victimisation, etc is quite rare in post Hays Hollywood films. FearÉIREANN 02:34 16 Jun 2003 (UTC)

The Birdcage, La Cage aux Folles
why is 'the birdcage' under 'b' but 'la cage aux folles' under 'l'?
 * Ignorance of French, probably. I'm sure I've committed similar mistakes.  You (anonymous contributor) can feel free to move it to where it belongs, since this is a wiki; but be warned that larger changes or changes on controversial subjects will often require an explanation on the talk page to prevent hostility.  (moving the title should not be one of those changes, though)  :-)  Koyaanis Qatsi ... .oh.  heh.  you just forgot to sign.  Hello, jaknouse.  :-)

Chronological order
It might be more interesting to put the movies in chronological order, considering the subject matter. Also, how about one-liners sort of telling what makes each one a gay movie. Most don't have articles, most are unknown. Prominent cast members, if any, would also help. Rod Steiger in a gay movie is different from, say, Harvey Fierstein. With those changes, I think the article would have more impact, form a sort of history of the gay theme in movies. Ortolan88


 * Just popping in here to tout again my idea that a list in chronological order and annotated as to what gets them on this list would make a more interesting and better article.
 * Boys in the Band (1969), much unhappiness: "Show me a happy homosexual and I'll show you a gay corpse."
 * La Cage aux Folles (1978), French sex farce in a drag nightclub
 * La Cage aux Folles (1978), French sex farce in a drag nightclub
 * La Cage aux Folles (1978), French sex farce in a drag nightclub
 * La Cage aux Folles (1978), French sex farce in a drag nightclub


 * et cetera. Ortolan88 04:41 Feb 27, 2003 (UTC)

Ben-Hur (1959 film)
Does something like Ben-Hur fit on this list? --Robert Merkel

Yes, as the producers and actors later explained. Only Chuck Heston, dimwitted as ever, never realised what all the other actors on set realised about some of the symbolism of the film. FearÉIREANN 02:34 16 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * Or Airplane? "Do you like movies about gladiators?"  This is really an ambiguous topic and annotation would help immensely, I think.  Movies explicitly about gay subjects, explicit movies about gay subjects, movies implicitly about gay subjects, movies popular with gay people, etc.  Ortolan88


 * Yes there are plenty of movies with homo-erotic overtones which arn't usually labelled gay movies. Mintguy


 * It's such a shame that there are no Biggles films. Nevilley 17:31 Feb 15, 2003 (UTC)


 * 'Biggles Flies Undone' would have made a classic :) quercus robur


 * Tsk, tsk. As I'm sure you know perfectly well, there's no such Biggles book as Biggles Flies Undone. There is, however, a Biggles book from the sixties entitled Biggles Takes it Rough... &mdash;Paul A 02:43, 16 Oct 2003 (UTC)


 * Ben-Hur was another mentioned The Celluloid Closet. I did laugh, as it's so obvious in the clips they showed! :o) &mdash; OwenBlacker 17:15, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)

A Beautiful Mind
Q. Could someone refresh my mind as to why "A Beautiful Mind" should be considered a gay movie? I know that John Nash has been rumoured to be Gay, but he has denied it. More importantly, there was no hint of that behavior in the movie itself, so I don't see why the motion picture belongs on this list...

A. Perhaps someone casually believed it to be based on the life of Alan Turing, rather than John Forbes Nash? They would thus be confusing it with the Turing biopic (kosher gay interest) Breaking The Code. There also seems to be a US-based gaydar urban-myth - but the author of the book on which BM is based said categorically on USA Today... "No source ever suggested Nash was gay. Nash never said he was gay. The book didn't say he was gay. I stuck to the facts I had. I don't know where people are getting all this." Apparently the subject of the biopic was allegedly once arrest for importuning in a public lavatory. But since he's a barking schizo, this may or may not be some reflection o his sexuality. Maybe the police just felt vindictive that night. Who knows?

Sebastian, Sebastiane
I moved the link on Sebastian to Sebastian (movie) so that it does not point to the article on St Sebastian. Is the movie about the saint, by any chance? I could understand why St Sebastian might become a gay icon, given his usual depiction in painting. -- IHCOYC 18:38 15 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Yup. It is about him and if I remember correctly the film is in latin! FearÉIREANN 20:38 15 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * Well, then, maybe I need to look this one up after all. . . . It might be as funny as Incubus. -- IHCOYC 01:59 16 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * Sebastiane is the Derek Jarman movie in Latin about St. Sebastian, while Sebastian is an unrelated movie about a teenager who falls in love with his best friend. -- Martin

Award
Are there any awards for gay movies only like Academy Award? I am not sure, but I know these are some, anyone knows something about it? --ILovEJPPitoC 06:39, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Article title
I'm not liking the title of this article. It's not too bad as it is, but it has two bad connotations in my mind: "gay" as in the derogatory sense, and the fact that a movie cannot be homosexual (but of course the people in it could be). Dysprosia 10:41, 3 Nov 2003 (UTC)


 * You mean the word 'gay' or that in some movies? --FallingInLoveWithPitoc 10:47, 3 Nov 2003 (UTC)


 * In List of gay movies. I know it's not meant to be derog., it just comes off that way. Dysprosia 10:55, 3 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Second Skin
Is the movie Second Skin a french one or spanish one? I am not sure about that. --FallingInLoveWithPitoc 10:47, 3 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Española Rohmerin 12:07, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Expanded list
I added some more movies a few days ago. Hope everyone enjoys the expanded list :) Voyager640 15:39, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)~

Cat on a Hot Tin Roof
Re: Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. Although the play has a rather obvious gay subtext, isn't the movie rather devoid of any such subtext? RickK 02:50, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)


 * that's not very gay movie from today's view... IMHO --FallingInLoveWithPitoc 04:22, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Mrs Doubtfire
I don't remember any gay subtext in Mrs Doubtfire. DJ Clayworth 19:17, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * Fwiw, there were prominent gay characters… &mdash; OwenBlacker 17:15, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes. "Uncle Frank" and "Aunt Jack" i believe they were called. &mdash;  F REAK OF N URxTURE  ( TALK )  09:32, May 6, 2005 (UTC)

Mannequin
Can anyone tell me why on earth this movie is included? Are any of the major characters GBLT? Trxi 09:46, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The guy who does the store windows, Hollywood Montrose, is portrayed in a completely over-the-top manner by Meshach Taylor.--fiat lux 08:01, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Mini-Series?
What about the 3 Tales of the City Mini-Series productions? Though produced as a mini-series, they are really just long movies.

Avoiding overlap with the TV article & LBT
This article was created to list theatrical films -- there already is an article concerning TV-related LGBT programming: List of television shows with lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgendered characters. Because of this, I moved the page to replace "movies" with "films" and additionally in the process, added the LBT that was omitted in the first naming scheme. There were also some Wikipedia style guide issues that were resolved. Davodd 22:45, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)

Removing many due to speculation or not being theatrical in nature
I am removing films that either were made for TV or have no openly LGBT characters or themes. Speculation or original research is not the job of WP. Davodd 22:51, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)
 * Much of the original research might well be included in The Celluloid Closet (see my comments in this edit under above). I shall try to incorporate that documentary's comments more coherently. &mdash; OwenBlacker 17:15, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)

Recently added
18.02.05:


 * Wittgenstein, UK (1992) - Derek Jarman's biopic of a gay philosopher
 * Caravaggio, UK (1986) - Derek Jarman's biopic of a gay artist
 * Edward II, UK (1992) - Derek Jarman's biopic of a gay king
 * The Times of Harvey Milk, USA (1984) - Oscar winning documentary about a gay mayor
 * For a Lost Soldier - disambig
 * The Leather Boys, UK (1964) - gay love story, daring for its time
 * The Killing of Sister George, UK (1964) - lesbian love story & psychodrama
 * The Naked Civil Servant, UK (1975) - made for TV, but I saw it at the cinema, it must have had a theatrical release in the UK
 * Spanish Gardener, UK (1957) - early, very 'implied', but it's there in the novel it's based on
 * Orlando, UK (1993) - gender-bending time-travel meets Merchant Ivory
 * Secret Places, UK, (1984) - lesbian boarding school romance
 * Withnail & I, UK (1987) - Uncle Monty(!), the relationship between the two main leads left implied
 * Lawrence of Arabia - the reading of the service-record (stops at "and... arhum!"), his relationship with the boys and his love for Omar Sharif, "thou tulip" (Arabic poetry metaphor for gay love), feyness of main character. 1962, so couldn't be stated openly, but we know know Lawrence was male-male oriented, and the movie obviously imples it at several point.
 * Billy Elliot - his gay/tranny best friend.
 * A Taste of Honey - the Jeffrey character
 * Death in Venice - disambig - who's going to look for it under M for Morte??
 * I've heard the mermaids singing - overtly out lesbian
 * November Moon - overtly lesbian
 * Olivia - overtly lesbian

2005/06/06:


 * The Object of My Affection - main character falls in love with her gay friend

2005/06/07:


 * Things You Can Tell Just by Looking at Her - fourth story is focused on two lesbian women

2005/09/17:


 * Picnic at Hanging Rock. Girls boarding school saturated with lesbian eroticism, and the main lead Miranda is having an affair with the orphan girl Sara - "you must find someone else to love, I won't be here next year". There is also a brief shot of two girls lying satiated in bed in each others' arms.

2005/10/15:


 * Four Weddings and a Funeral. Two of the main characters in the movie, Matthew (John Hannah) and Gareth (Simon Callow) are a gay couple. Matthew's (Hannah's) reading of W.H. Auden's poem Wedding Blues is one of the most dramatic moments of the movie.


 * The Hunger. Miriam (Catherine Deneuve) seduces Dr. Sarah Roberts (Susan Sarandon) in an attempt to lure Sarandon's character into a new life as a vampire. Not your ordinary vampire movie, and definitely not an ordinary ending.

(Delete this section when everyone's had a good look and a chance to whine)

Category:LGBT-related films
I'm creating a category for these films at the moment, mainly because I was surprised that noone already had done. I would guess this is gonna prompt some debate on the films' article pages as to whether or not a film was LGBT-related or not; people might want to watch the Related Changes for a while. &mdash; OwenBlacker 17:15, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)

LGBT as the main subject
Many of these movies only imply homosexuality, while in others it is the main subject. For example, compare "thirteen" and "Gazon Maudit": In the first one, homosexuality is only implied, while in the second one it is the main subject of the movie. I would suggest that we seperated the movies that just mention homosexuality, by making those whose main topic is gay/lesbian -related stand out in bold. What do people think? --dionyziz 30 June 2005 19:01 (UTC)


 * Rather than bold, we could annotate all the films with a mention of the LGBT content. This could also be done with footnotes. -- Samuel Wantman 30 June 2005 19:08 (UTC)


 * Or have a separate subheading. Or even a separate article. I'd actually prefer the latter. I think the main article - this one - should focus on films that are primarily about GBLT characters/situations. If we're going to include movies that have one token queer character, this article will go on forever. Let's separate it out. --Trxi 2 July 2005 06:41 (UTC)


 * the rider at the top of the page says it all... "deal with or feature important gay, lesbian or bisexual or transgender characters or issues, and may have same-sex romance or relationships as an important plot device." 'Barely hinted at' doesn't = "important", so if that's so then the movie shouldn't be here. However if 'implied' only means "no actual kissing and f*cking" then I think we're being a bit demanding and not taking into account the dates when some of these films were made and what it was possible to show on the screen then. I say leave it as it is, I don't see any films I'd want to remove right now -- 19 Sept 2005.

The Mexican?!
One gay character does not a gay movie make. Even if Brad Pitt is in it. I'm removing the listing. &mdash; OwenBlacker 11:07, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * Please see my talk post just above... --dionyziz 30 June 2005 19:02 (UTC)

Listing
A good listing of LGBT movies can be found here.--ShaunMacPherson 3 July 2005 16:17 (UTC)
 * PlanetOut has a good one too at

Rebecca
I'm sorry, but Rebecca?! Is the idea that Mrs. Danvers was a lesbian? I think that's a bit of a reach. (I should note that I haven't read the book, so there might be something in there that makes it clear that I don't know about). Otherwise, if its just a gay "cult film" I think it should be taken off. Carolynparrishfan 17:59, 22 December 2005 (UTC) Apart from the simmering tension in the scenes shared by the narrator and Mrs Danvers, look at the scene where the new Mrs De Winter meets the staff. She drops her gloves and stoops to pick them up at the same time that Mrs Danvers does. Their heads are angled across each other so that there is an instant where they seem to be kissing. Similar, if not the inspiration for the male kiss in The Usual Suspects.Charliebonkers (talk) 23:50, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

The Maltese Falcon
Huh? What is this film doing on the list? (Ibaranoff24 19:36, 8 March 2006 (UTC))


 * Joel Cairo is gay. The movie strongly implies it, and the novel the film is based on explicitly says so.--Franz 02:42, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Links
The links are all messed up. A lot of them seem to link to other articles, like Proteus used to link to the myth and not to the movie.

School of Rock
School of Rock? The only thing I remember even remotely queer about this film is that boy who was into Liza Minelli, but this doesn't make it a gay film. I'm deleting this from the 2003 film listings.

John Tucker Must Die
Where is the gayness in this? I have heard nothing, can someone enlighten me, or is this just wishful thinking? Dev920 20:41, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I haven't seen the movie but the article says nothing about any gay content so I removed it, along with Taladega Nights (Will Ferrell kissing another man for cheap laughs does not a gay film make). Otto4711 04:19, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Messy article
With all due respect for the people who created the article (for it must have taken them quite a bit to do it), the article as it stands isn't very informative. All the movies are thrown together without any kind of helpful organization. Who cares what year a movie got out? It'd be more helpful to know at first glance if it's a gay or lesbian movie, for example. Perhaps even add a tagline about the plot, as has been suggested somewhere above. It means a lot more work, but it'd definitely be more helpful and informative than what we have now. It's just a suggestion. Raystorm 15:59, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Poltergay
I just translated the article Poltergay from the French Wikipedia. Could someone go through, and correct it so that it meets the formatting standards of the English Wikipedia? Oh, and check out the trailer; it looks like a trip! Thanks, samwaltz 19:00, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Order
I think that this page should be sorted by gay-related, lesbian-related, bi-related, and trans-related instead of ABC order, to make it easier for people to find which certain part of LGBT they're looking for in a movie. Any agrees/edits? Brittany 01:05, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Instead of reordering, I'd advocate splitting the article into four different lists. Or better yet, leave it as-is. Cleduc 03:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

AfD
I have nominated this page for AfD. If you have any oppositions against this, please comment on Articles for deletion/Log/2007 July 6. H irohisatTalk Page 02:19, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Workness
This article needs work. My suggestions:


 * 1) Spin off the films by year into a separate article List of lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender-related films by year
 * 2) Create a table with the following columns:

This would enable us to keep track of what films are being added and whether they are suitable or not by checking the summary, and also would be more informational that the article as it stands. What do you think? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 23:38, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, no-one has replied to this so I'm going to split the article. The table will have to happen considerably later though, too much else doing at the mo. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 23:23, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Doh! I wish I had seen your first comment and caught you before the big split. I've seen a sortable table or two on Wikipedia, and that would seem to eliminate the need for the second page (by year) if you make the tabulated version sortable. AU Tiger » talk 01:53, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It is possible. However, it does make it incredibly complicated, and I fear what we would gain in aesthetics we would lose in volunteers willing to update it. Is it worth it? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 06:13, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmmm,pros and cons to both; because the sortable version relies on Javascript, it would be less accessible. On the updating point, having two pages means duplicate information that has to be updated in two places, which may be equivalent to the any additional difficultly in maintaining a sortable table. Tough call. AU Tiger » talk 12:32, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I was thinking that we could ignore the by year list for now, and work on this one, and then when we're done get a bot to take the entries and resort them by year and add the result to the article. I don't want to duplicate my efforts either. :) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 21:12, 1 August 2007 (UTC)