Talk:List of major cities in the United States lacking inter-city rail service

Reorganization
This article is something of a mess. I'd like to make the following changes:
 * Move it to List of major cities in U.S. lacking inter-city rail service
 * Limit the cities to those from the Top 100 enumerated in Cities and metropolitan areas of the United States.
 * Use either actual population or statistical area, and make it clear which.
 * Organize everything into a table, with a note about the last intercity service, Amtrak or otherwise

Thoughts on the above? Mackensen (talk) 01:39, 18 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with Mackensen in concept about the points listed. Though for my part, I would prefer List of 100 largest U.S. cities lacking intercity passenger rail service for a name using core based statistical areas (CSBA) as a basis.  That seems to be what the current list uses, but it has some conspicuous absences if that is the case.  For example, Winston-Salem, North Carolina in its CBSA form is absent, as well as Cape Coral-Fort Myers, Florida; while other smaller cities which are listed would fall out of a list of the top 100.  Though, I suppose an argument could be made for a list that was more comprehensive that would include as a basis the entire CSBA list.


 * I would also agree (recognizing this list was split from the Amtrak article) that it makes sense to move away from a carrier specific list for two reasons, and perhaps calls for a separate list entirely(?). First, the list could then accommodate intercity services run by carriers other than Amtrak that are in operation now (e.g. CapeFlyer, though seasonal†), and anticipated services (e.g. Las Vegas Railway Express), and the planned California High-Speed Rail project.  Second, it creates the opportunity to include the last intercity service, Amtrak or otherwise as Mackensen suggests.


 * I've come up with an Excel list that I think could be used as a starting point for review. In my rationale, to count as being "served" geographically there must be an intercity rail station in, or immediately adjacent to, and accessible from the geographic boundaries of the CSBA.  For example, Kingston, NY Metropolitan Statistical Area would not have intercity rail service, since the station is across the Hudson River, which forms a boundary and is a barrier to accessing Rhinecliff-Kingston Amtrak station.  On the other hand, the Hilton Head Island-Bluffton-Beaufort metropolitan area would be served by the Yamassee Amtrak station since the station, though separated from Beaufort County, South Carolina by mere feet by the railroad tracks themselves, is immediately adjacent to the boundary and immediately accessible to the CSBA.


 * I'll post my table in my sandbox, and leave notice here that it is available should anyone like to review.


 * †Note: Though seasonal, CapeFlyer connects one CBSA that would otherwise be on a list of U.S. cities lacking intercity passenger rail service, Barnstable Town, MA Metropolitan Statistical Area with Boston, Massachusetts.  It also raises the issue of what counts as "service" in terms of frequency I suppose.


 * Ltvine | Talk 04:51, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The limit to Top 100 of a given census is tricky, as the populations and positions within the top 100 can shift, census to census. This does not escape the fact that the locales are limited in terms of their transportation options.Dogru144 (talk) 00:40, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * As to the earlier note about water barriers and service, the same might be noted for the quite large Norfolk, VA/Virginia Beach, VA area. Both are separated from Newport News by a strait. Newport News does have Amtrak Service. But as noted above, it can be difficult to traverse a moderately large body of water to reach the train station in Newport News.Dogru144 (talk) 00:57, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Could we cite in the final column the last year and train that served said metro area? Why are we restricting to just an Amtrak discussion? Some places lost their service in the 1960s, while others lost their service with the 1971 switch-over to Amtrak.Dogru144 (talk) 00:57, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Gainesville, FL appears to have had service into the 1960s, as suggested in this Ill. Cent. timetable, 1965. http://viewoftheblue.com/photography/timetables/IC42565.pdf Dogru144 (talk) 07:44, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on List of major cities in U.S. lacking Amtrak service. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110713174331/http://www.ktka.com/news/2010/jan/07/study-finds-strong-economic-incentives-new-amtrak-/ to http://www.ktka.com/news/2010/jan/07/study-finds-strong-economic-incentives-new-amtrak-/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 11:53, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Commuter rail service and inter-city rail service
Some communities have regional or commuter rail service, connectings towns and small cities to larger hubs. As an example, Ogden, Utah is connected to Salt Lake City, to its south, by the FrontRunner commuter train. Do we presume to leave such a city out of the table? Ogden used to have frequent train service to cities northwest of Ogden.Dogru144 (talk) 12:52, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on List of major cities in U.S. lacking inter-city rail service. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130317045641/http://www.census.gov/popest/data/metro/totals/2012/index.html to http://www.census.gov/popest/data/metro/totals/2012/index.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 02:51, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

References issue
The issue of inline references can be resolved simply by clicking on the cited train articles. When you click on the links you will see the years that service ended on the line. And the articles indicate the cities on the train line.Dogru144 (talk) 21:43, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Distance from established Amtrak stations

 * State College, PA was cited as 20 miles from Lewistown. Maps show that the fastest route between the two towns is 30.1 miles.Dogru144 (talk) 19:28, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Galveston
The table doesn't include Galveston, which is counted as part of the Houston metro area. However, there is a distance of 50 miles between the two city centers.Dogru144 (talk) 23:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC) Its last train was the Santa Fe Railroad's Texas Chief.Dogru144 (talk) 23:53, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

comparing cities to MSA's
using the metropolitan statistical area population to represent a single city feels a little misleading - does this bother anyone else? -MJDestroyerOfWorlds (talk) 22:21, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure, a little, but in some ways it might more accurately represent the urban population. Cities like Columbus and Indianapolis have plenty that's suburban/rural annexed, while NYC is pretty much all urban; counting suburbs would swell the population significantly. So both city and MSA pop. would be ideal; if you have time to implement it, please do! ɱ  (talk) 22:30, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * any idea or suggestion on how to do that effectively for twin- tri- and quad-cities? it gets really hairy displaying this information due to the non-uniformity of urban areas. -MJDestroyerOfWorlds (talk) 01:04, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Two possibilities as far as I can tell: (1) Just make the new column be just for the population of the largest city in the MSA, as that's what is most important in the ranking, or (2) make a second table for city pop to mirror the first table for MSA pop. ɱ  (talk) 01:36, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The rationale for metro areas is that in this period, and for many years now, there are many train and plane passengers that arrive to a station or terminal from outside the city or town where that terminal may be. Additionally, with the suburban sprawl that we have, there are many scattered communities that individually are small in population, but in one county easily exceed 100,000. So, it makes little sense to look only to the city proper and ignore the surrounding area.Dogru144 (talk) 16:30, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Which is why I commented that both sets of data could be useful, and would work without having to argue which is more important or relevant. ɱ  (talk) 17:22, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Updating with 2020 data
When are we going to update this with 2020 data? The new figures are: Las Vegas, NV metro: 2,265,461 Columbus, OH metro: 2,138,946 Nashville metro: 1,961.232 These are from news reports. Where is the link to the official census for metro areas?Dogru144 (talk) 20:31, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Sheboygan and question of Amtrak expansion
Editor(s) have added notes that certain segments have been highlighted by Amtrak for potential re-initiation of service. This includes Green Bay, Wisconsin and Oshkosh-Appleton. I would advise these editors that if the latter cities are involved that this does not directly mean that Sheboygan will be included. Please note, from timetables, that Oshkosh and Appleton are on one division, and that Shegoygan and Manitowoc are on another division. If Sheboygan will see a restoration of service, this will necessarily be on a different division from that used for Oshkosh and Appleton.Dogru144 (talk) 01:17, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Add stations column?
The natural place to find more info about the passenger rail history of each of these cities is the article for the last-active train station, but these aren't linked. What do people think of adding a column? Sure there would be some red links, but this would help identify pages to create. QuincyMorgan (talk) 14:45, 16 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Yep this is a good idea. ɱ  (talk) 15:39, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

"List of cities in the United States lacking inter-city rail service" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_cities_in_the_United_States_lacking_inter-city_rail_service&redirect=no List of cities in the United States lacking inter-city rail service] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. Silcox (talk) 12:15, 16 August 2023 (UTC)