Talk:List of major sports teams in the United States by city

Soccer
where is the MLS!!!!!!!!71.103.86.220 (talk) 18:20, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

agreed, MLS needs to be included. They are basically at NHL levels now based on attendance figures CyberCosmiX (talk) 04:59, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Are you serious??? You are comparing an outdoor league with an indoor league?? Wow, you really don't know what major league is, do you? So let's set some requirements:

1--You've been around for a long time. This is the case with all four of these leagues, but not the case with a very young MLS.

2--The league has stability...teams are not folding, as was the case with the Miami Fusion. MLS admittedly targets the hispanic audience, which is well known to have a passion for soccer. So when a soccer team can not survive in one of the largest hispanic communities in the United States (Miami), that fact alone goes against the league being major.

3--Attendance figures are comparable to other leagues in the same sport. The NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL have the highest attendance figures in their respective sports in the world. This point can not be stated enough. A sport that is played in large stadiums should have larger attendance figures than indoor sports. Even the defunct USFL had higher average attendance figures in its three years of existence than the MLS. But back to soccer. For the years 2005-06, the German Bundesliga had an average attendance of 40,745, and MLS had 15,108. MLS has a ways to go before it can be called a major league. Comparing MLS attendance figures to any indoor games is pathetic.

4--Television ratings. When MLS can consistently have TV ratings above the NHL and MLB, then you might be able to talk about being major league (in terms of overall ratings, ranked from top to bottom, are the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL).

5--The best foreign players play in the United States. While this may not apply to the NFL (since football is still largely an American game), it is the case with the NBA, MLB, and NHL. MLS can point to the David Beckham acquisition, but this is an exception. Most of the world's best soccer players do not want to play in MLS.

Lets see where the MLS is 10 years from now, and then maybe, just maybe, the league can be considered major. 209.244.7.239 (talk) 17:49, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


 * First of all, you make yourself look like an idiot when you assume that all Hispanics are the same. Miami is full of Cubans, who are fans of baseball much more than football, like Mexicans, Central Americans, and South Americans, like there are in LA and Texas where there are several successful MLS teams, which is funny considering Miami has struggled to support one of the most successful MLB teams in the last decade, namely the Florida Marlins.  --   Grant  .  Alpaugh  03:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * And of your attendance criteria, comparing a 13 year old league to one of the top 4 in the world is unfair. MLS is rated 12th in the world in attendance and 2nd highest in CONCACAF. Considering almost every country with an FA has a league of some sort (around 200), I'd say that stacks up pretty well. The Greek Suepr League Greece averages around 1,500 per game and does not attract the worlds superstars either. Does that not make it a major league in Greece? And who said MLS stadiums were large? Other than Giants Stadium, most MLS stadiums aren't gigantic NFL stadiums.Greecepwns (talk) 22:17, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hence, I think MLS is indeed really a minor league for now.

A major league is distinguished by three factors: The presence of top players around the world in the particular sport, the level of support by the audience in the sport in comparison to the city's population, as well as the stability (financially and structurally) of the league.

For now, MLS do not have the best players of the world. The best players of the world only play in the 4 biggest leagues in the world; namely, the top divisions of the leagues in Germany, Italy, Spain and England. In addition, even some Americans in the American national soccer team also plays in the countries above. Can a league with an exodus of players to overseas remain a 'major league' in comparison to other sports such as baseball, basketball or (American) football?

In addition, through attracting only about 20 thousand people per match over 30 regular season games. The attendance figure alone is half of that of basketball and hockey in United States. For leagues to have similar amounts of support like that of the current 'major leagues', each regular season game should have at least 56 thousand people per game to reach attendance records at the current Major League record.

In addition, as mentioned above, MLS is a relatively young league. Almost every team plays in a new stadium, franchise relocation are still present and prevalent (the San Jose team had moved to Houston in 2006). As opposed to Greek teams, MLS teams do not have the history of soccer as compared to the Greek clubs like AEK Athens. In addition, MLS still may not have a structure that guarantees profits. Only four or so teams currently breaks a profit, out of a league of 13 or so teams. Isn't this profitable and sustainable?

Hence, MLS can only be compared to, perhaps, NASCAR or CFL, as the 2nd tier of North American sports. Perhaps, through the building of youth players; the continued promotion of soccer to more people, demographic changes that include more immigration from football-mad countries like United Kingdom, Mexico, Brazil and China; it is entirely possible for United States to have a successful league that may contest the popularity of other sports in future. Ruennsheng  (Talk)   09:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

MLS
I think it can be agreed that Major League Soccer is not yet a major Norther American sports league like MLB, NBA, NFL, and NHL. But it would be just as crazy to assume it is on par with other minor sports leagues in America. In fact, it is much much greater. (Since it really cannot be pigeon holed into either a "major" or "minor" category, you might say its in a league of its own...) Can a compromise be made to include MLS in the article but very clearly denote it is not a major Norther American sports league? --Blackbox77 (talk) 02:43, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Blackbox77 - MLS should be included as a major league.--JonBroxton (talk) 23:47, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh, well I wasn't trying to say MLS was a major league compared to the big four but yes, it doesn't hurt to include the 5th most significant league (and note it as that). --Blackbox77 (talk) 02:04, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Am I wrong in saying that TV Ratings are sometimes a "chicken and egg thing". Nobody is going to watch it if it is not on TV.  The MLS had done a good job of getting its product on the major networks (ABC I think).  People also don't view it as a Major sport if its not on TV, regardless of attendance. The NFL is a major juggernaut, MLB is a uniquely American product, NBA and NHL are very close in my mind (but I am Canadian, some Americans may not share this point of view).  There has to be room for the "next one", whether it is MLS or AFL or NLL or American Gladiators ;) --Coppercanuck (talk) 17:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree, Blackbox77.Sixkick (talk) 07:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Why not include CFL teams as well? I think the Big Six are really sports that dominate North American sports...

To an old-fashioned American, however, you cannot deny that baseball, football and basketball are the only sports that matter. (Just look at the latest Lonely Planet guidebook on USA, duh) But there's still other sports in actual fact, like hockey, soccer and Canadian football/lacrosse in North American sports, that are also part of North American life. Ruennsheng  (Talk)   09:27, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Chicago
Chicago needs cleanup... there are two baseball teams in the same box, unlike other cities with multiple franchises. 70.51.8.208 (talk) 07:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Copyright concerns
There is a conversation relating to this here. As resolution of this remains pending, interested editors may wish to participate. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:12, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

WNBA
How is it that the WNBA beats the MLS in the ratings but isn't included in the table and the MLS is? Somehow this doesn't make sense to me. HoosierStateTalk 02:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * How is the WNBA considered a major league when the NBA already exists? Also, the MLS substantially beats the WNBA in television ratings if you consider all broadcasts according to Major professional sports leagues in the United States and Canada. I really don't think the MLS should be included on this list either, but I guess that was hashed out already. Starwrath (talk) 22:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Because the NBA and WNBA aren't the same thing. Maybe? HoosierState  Talk 11:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The definition of major league varies, but according to Princeton it is "the most important league in any sport (especially baseball)" and according to our own Wikitionary "An association of sports teams which plays at the highest skill level of its sport, especially Major League Baseball." The WNBA is not a major league according to the above definitions, as it is not the highest level of play in its sport of basketball. On another note, shouldn't this article be pretty much the same as List_of_U.S._and_Canadian_cities_by_professional_sports_teams, just minus the Canadian cities? Starwrath (talk) 07:50, 24 November 2010 (UTC)