Talk:List of mamodo in Zatch Bell!

Continuity
I think some effort should be made towards the continuity of this article. The Japanese and English versions, though different, are not so different as to warrant seperate pages. Since the page is on the english site of wikipedia, favor should be to the english version (i.e. Names should be spelled first in english with the Japanese in parenthesis or something else.) Also, the actual powers and descriptions of the demons should be the same across the board (i.e. Zatch should always be lightning, Pamoon/Stars, Brago/Gravity, etc. If info's changed, it should be changed on all descriptions.)Turk Ranma 21:24, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Also, can anyone track down the idiot who keeps saying mamodos' books were burned in episodes that haven't aired yet? Okay, the mamodo still around are: Zatch, Hyde, Brago, Kanchome, Schneider/Ponygon, Tia, Zeno, Purio, Bari, Ted, Earth, Karudeio, Keys, Momon, Cherish, Biburio, Sooma, and Faudo. I want to know WHO keeps putting in that most of their books were burned!

Also has anyone else notived that there are only 65 mamodo listed although in total there are 100 mamodo sent to earth? The only logical explanation I can think of is these 35 mamodo had their books burned without debuts on the show.

Characters
Under each of the character pictures there is a "see article on ____" space added. If you want to include descriptions on characters (without spoiling it for people) just click on the red link and write away!Turk Ranma 21:24, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Page Break
Due to space issues, the page needs to be broken up into more sections.Turk Ranma 16:36, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

I always thought it was easier if they where all on the same page. ~ Ultimate Perfect Chaos 02:11, 7 February 2006 (UTC) ~

How? Seriously, what he suggested was more sections, but separating some of the information into a new page would solve a lot of proms. Ace Class Shadow 20:34, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Characters to merge
I don't know where to put them on the page, so could somebody find the appropriate spot for these characters:

demoruto and robert vile are the anime characters in zatch bell. demoruto's arm blades are used as weapons and to attack. demoruto looks like a demon with wings and arm blades and sholuder armors. he was deafeted by zatch. and his armor upgrade by his final spell

They were in a separate article, which I redirect to this article. Thanks -- Kjkolb 10:15, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

I think all the separate character pages should be merged unless there is so much information like the main characters. Even Zeno (Zeon) should have his page with his partner Dufort (Dufaux). Kolulu and Lori just was shown once and you can just put the paragraph sized summary on the character page. Thank You. - GatoGirl 12345

Images
Sadly, virtually all of the images on this page lack source and copyright information. They need those tags and the approprate description of the source on their image page to avoid being deleted. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the uploader doesn't hold the copyright for them, and that the copyright holder hasn't released them under any free license; so the only tag that could work is fair use. Unfortunately, there's a limit to how many fair use images you're supposed to use in an article, and this goes a bit above that. What it comes down to is that someone is going to have to go over this article, choose a few important images, tag them as fair use and note their source, then remove all the rest. --Aquillion 01:06, 8 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Another possibility is to create a large grid-style layout of all of them as a single gigantic image (not unlike the way the pokemon charts and wall posters were designed). Sweetfreek 09:21, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Something else to note about the images, for Purio, he never had any sort of facial hair in the anime. It wasn't even removed for the English dub. I did a cursory image search, and he showed up without the moustache or the goatee. Ryulong 03:41, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Spells
I realize that this may be a trivial question but exactly at what point did Zatch and Kiyo learn the 5th Spell? Sweetfreek 00:20, 5 March 2006 (UTC) When They were fighting Zabas and Gallont.Card Destruction Duelist13:51, 28 May 2006

Names
Shin'ichi's dubbed name is Shin. Not Sheen. Here's proof:



Also, I'm pretty sure that Fausuto, Tuvai, and Sooma's names are that and not Fausto, Tsuvai, and Soma. Belgium EO
 * Ah, sorry about the Sheen thing. The other names, however, take a good understanding of the Japanese phonetic system. Though first, some of the other names, like Mars/Maruss or Zophise/Zofis. Please provide images where their names are spelled as "Mars", "Zophise", "Barry", etc in English in the Japanese anime or manga. If not, then they're just considered as fan names and should not be included, and the default English dubbed names should be used. Mainly because there's no difference between the phonetic pronounciations of their Japanese names and their English name spellings. Now on to the other names that haven't been given English names yet.


 * ファウスト (phonetically Fausuto) While, yes, the bare phonetic pronounciation of it is "Fausuto" this can easily be reduced down to simply "Faust". In the same way that "Burago" goes down to "Brago" and "Gasshu" goes to "Gash". It has to do with how the "U" sound in Japanese is the "weak" sound. Also, names that end in "to" can be reduced down to just ending in T. Basically, for a final example, my real name "Grant" would be phonetically pronounced "Guranto" in Japanese.
 * ツヴァイ (phonetically Tsuvai) The first "tsu" character there gives it away. If the name were supposed to be "Tuvai", it would be written トゥヴァイ
 * カルディオ (phonetically Karudio) Due to the "ru" sound often being used in place of an "l", as there's no L sound in Japanese, the best way to translate this would be as "Kaldio".
 * ザルチム (phonetically Zaruchimu) Same reasons as stated above, it woudl be best translated as "Zalchim" or "Zalcheem".
 * キース (phonetically Kiisu) I haven't seen the episode yet, but from what I've heard, his name is written as "Kiees" in episode 146.
 * エル・シーバス (phonetically Eru Shiibasu) This one's kind of tricky. I got the name "Elle Chivas" from Gashchan's website (the one all the stuff on this page is coming from). It makes more sense than "El Sibasu" since Elle is an actual name and "Sibasu" simply sounds too Japanese to be her. Since she listed "Elle Chivas", either the name appeared that way in the series, or it's a very well thought out translation done by a fan. Either way, it's more accurate-looking and sounding for her. Geg 23:35, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I can understand most of them, but we ought to give Sooma, Zaruchimu, and Karudeio the BOTD until we hear further. And Sooma/Soma's fifth spell is Gigano Doruk, not Barudo. Begium EO
 * You're right, I was probably going slightly overboard, but for now, I'm changing Zaruchimu's name to just "Zaruchim" mainly because the "u" on the "mu" sound is very rarely left on. As for Karudeio/Karudio, the correct translation would be Karudio. There's a very small difference. The actual character's name is spelled カルディオ, which is phonetically Karudio. Karudeio, however, would be spelled カルデイオ. Notice the small difference? The smaller ィ before the デ gives it the "di" sound. As for Soma, I can definitely state with certainty that it's not "Sooma" at least in the normal way that name would be pronounced in English. It's name is ソーマ. ソ is the character for the phonetic sound "so" while ス is the character for the sound "su". Sooma would be written スーマ. Go ahead and look it up on Katakana if you need to. Geg 22:05, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * It's possible, but Gashchan may have accidentaly put some wrong katakana on his (her?) website. Elswhere, these mamodo are always referred to as Karudeio, Zaruchimu, and Sooma. These seem to be their official names, and we should probably go with that, and not "best possible translation", until they come to America. Belgium EO
 * I doubt it. All the other names are very accurate. And just because fans use names doesn't mean it's the most accurate translation, especially when there are big differences between the katakana and the translation (like Tsuvai/Tuvai and Karudio/Karudeio). Geg 23:57, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Let's use the Japanese names. For all you know, they could become Fausuto, Sooma, etc. in America. Just be patent and wait for them to come over here. then you can change it. EO
 * For Fausuto, there's a very slim possibility. The "o" may stay, like Kido, but there's no chance the "u" will stay in there. For Sooma, virtually zero, since his Japanese name and the name "Sooma" just don't go together. Oh, and for the other error I noticed, Bazurai should be Bazarai - ブザライ. The ザ is the character for za, not zu. Also, I have been checking them on the Japanese wikipedia site to make sure the names are accurate . And like I said, names like Tsuvai/Tuvai, Karudio/Karudeio, and Soma/Sooma aren't due to different usages of Japanese; they're due to actual mistranslations. Tsuvai's name has "ツ" at the beginning of it, making a "Tsu" sound, not a "Tu" sound; Karudio has a "ディ" in its name, making a "Di" sound, not a "Dei" sound; Soma has a "ソ" making a "So" sound, not a "Su" sound. Geg 00:33, 10 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Wait, I realized something. Katakana seem to indicate how a word is pronounced. However, words can be spelled differently than they are pronounced. EO
 * Exactly. Generally, however, words are not spelled differently from how they're pronounced. For example, something pronouced "Buzarai" will not be spelled "Buzurai" and vice versa. Though with Kiees, it's slightly different as his name is written out in English in episode 146. Geg 18:59, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

So it could go either way. But various places, including kimaera/gashchan, list their names as this. Ciao. EO
 * Pronounciations are not names. Everyone who isn't you considers the names I put down as their names. There are logical explanations for these names:
 * Tuvai/Tsuvai: You might be right about this one. Howver, it is possible that his name is pronounced with a hard, hissing "t" as in "ptueh" or various other "spitting" sounds that could register as a "tsu".
 * Karudeio/Karudio: A very minor one. Simply put, "Karudio" is a bare-bones pronounciation as in a dictionary whereas his spelling may well be the nearly identical "Karudeio".
 * Buzurai/Buzarai: A short "u" sound (as in uuuuuuuuhhh...) can sound exacly like certain pronounciations of the "a" sound.
 * Sooma/Soma: It is possible for long o's to make a short o sound and vice versca.
 * But even so, why should that matter? Even if various places do spell them like that, it doesn't change the fact that it was originally translated incorrectly. And yeah, certain spellings can be different from the way they're pronounced, but that doesn't mean you can just change it to whatever you want without proof to back it up. Take Tsuvai for example. There's no proof at all that his name is meant to be spelled "Tuvai", so why change it to that? Is it just because other sites have it listed as their name? That counts as a fan name, and Wikipedia is not the place for that. Geg 23:38, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Alright. I know when I'm wrong. Let's end this silly edit war. EO
 * Okay, so we've finally reached an agreement. I guess I have to apologize for getting so strung up over it. One of the things I'm worried about is the dub not going all the way to the end of the series due to content issues (stuff like Momon's underwear fetish will be hard to edit out), so I wanted to get the page as accurate as possible just in case the dub never makes it to those characters. Geg 02:51, 13 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Oops, I didn't know that was your reason... And hear I thought you were just a wound-too-tight GOI. (Grammar Obsessed Individual) I ought to apologize too. EO

Second names discussion
Well, as it turns out, I am kind of grammar-obsessed, so I did want to make some edits to make the humans' names more believable. Most of these names I got by looking them up on Google. Like I already said, Banikis is a name in some language, I think. I originally changed Kosuna to Cosner, but since "Natsuo" is a Japanese name, a last name like "Cosner" wouldn't make any sense, so I'm just leaving it as Kosuna. The next one was Dipito Koru/Dippit Cole. "Dippito Koru" is the bare bones pronounciation of it and the names don't seem to have any real meaning in real life. Both "Dippit" and "Cole" are real names. Then "Ozi Furaian". Well, since "Ozzy" is the more common spelling of the name, I changed it to that. As for the last name, "Fryan" is also an actual name. Same with "Elle". I'd still like to change "Shibasu/Sibasu" to "Chivas". It makes a lot more sense as well. Also, I just found a site with some Japanese names translated to English. I'm going to look that over and think about what to do with it. Geg 23:09, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, here's the site I found: http://bd.halfmoon.jp/spell.html. The first line of text at the top reads: "If the background is the color of the sea, it is official. If the color is white, it is due to the original research of the managers [of the site]." Basically, the names in the blue background were somehow confirmed by the show or the creators of the show, I'm guessing. All the others came from original research. I'll go ahead and change the confirmed ones. The only other real notable one is they note beside Jeed/Gide's name that if he's French, the name Gide would fit. Though he looks American based on his appearence. So I doubt he's French. Go ahead and look over them and discuss them if you want. Geg 23:28, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ahem, I beleive we had a deal? I wouldn't mess up the mastranlated names if you left the Japanese names as-is. I would appreciate if you did not break promises again. EO
 * -_- I don't remember making promises. And like I said, I was just trying to make the article more accurate. Geg 23:37, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * But first, a question about the characters in dispute. Someone on the Tv.com forums said Fausuto, Tuvai/Tsuvai, and Torowa were Millennium Mamodos. Should I move them there? EO
 * Huh... I dunno. It's definitely possible that they are since they came during that saga, but I would have thought we'd know if they were Millennium mamodos or not. So I guess we should just leave them where they are for now. Geg 23:46, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Main Characters
This is a bold statement, but Wonrei and Kido have been sent back. They are no longer relevant and are no longer main characters. I propose we move them down to "Mamodos and their Bookkeepers" and move Bari, Ted, Earth, Karudeio, Momon and Cherish up to "Main characters" (Possibly Zeno and his surviving followers too, unless you don't want villains up there). Also, Tia and Kanchome should be switched because Kanchome debuted first. EO
 * I was actually thinking of doing something similar, but not as drastic. I was thinking to just keep the ones we have, but add some others to it. Ted/Jeed and Earth/Elly definitely, and maybe Zeno/Dufort. I don't know about the others, since I haven't seen enough of the more recent episodes to really know how much of a role they play. Wonrei should definitely stay, since he played a large role when he was still around. Though maybe Kido and Dr. Riddles don't really count as main characters. I haven't seen enough of those episodes yet either. And I think the current order is fine, since Tia kind of plays a larger role than Kanchomé. Geg 05:08, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Wonrei and Kido are main characters since they are in the Bookmark game.


 * A recent Zatch/Gash Bell video game in Japan features Makoto Raiku (creator of Zatch Bell) as a bookkeeper with Vulcan 300 as his mamodo. Should I add them? EO
 * Heh, funny. I don't really know, actually. Geg 23:59, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Why not? I don't see anything wrong with that. Just add something like VIDEO GAME ONLY on top unless you want it deleted in the first 5 minutes. By the way, WHO THE HECK DELETED THE MAIN CHARACHTERS ENTIRELY FROM THE LIST!?!?!?!?!? They are ceratinly charachters, and I do not see any reason to eclude them. In fact, I see every reason not to exclude them. Now all the people who wrote it originally have to look for the html names of the images and rewrite all the spells. And to whoever did it, it is not necessary to "This spell" in front of every spell description. It's defnitely not fair having to do this all over again.Haku raja 01:52, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

The Silent Rulers
I have evidence that Fausuto, Tsuvai, and Torowa are Millennium Mamodos. Pepare for a LOOOOOOOOOONG explanation: It was stated at the end of vol. 9 of the manga that 40 mamodo remained. Since then, going by the manga and anime stuff that doesn't conflict, here's who went down; That's 24, leaving 16. (Note: Wiseman was also beaten during this time period, but he was an "extra" mamodo, number 101) That's all 40 from vol.9 accounted for. The problem is, Fausuto, Tsuvai, and Torowa would push the number to 43, and thus the total number to 103. So... think about it. EO
 * Bago
 * Baransha
 * Donpoccho
 * Kido
 * Penny
 * Byonko
 * Zofis
 * Majiro
 * Maestro
 * Coral Q
 * Rein
 * Riou
 * Hogan
 * Buzarai
 * Fango
 * Riya
 * Zaruchimu
 * Akatsuki
 * Wonrei
 * Ted
 * Gyaron
 * Eruzadoru
 * Kiees
 * Bari
 * Zatch
 * Hyde
 * Schneider
 * Brago
 * Kanchome
 * Tia
 * Zeno
 * Purio
 * Earth
 * Karudio
 * Rodeaux
 * Momon
 * Cherish
 * Jedun
 * Ashuron
 * Faudo

Majestic 12
Why aren't them on the character list?

Third names discussion
About the "contact gashchan" thing, that's basically impossible. She doesn't leave her email or anything on that site. I used to post on a forum with her, but that was about a year ago. But anyway, verifiable information is one of the bases of Wikipedia. It's even on the little license thing thing under the edit box. I can't let those other spellings go through without seeing something to back it up, especially when the spelling isn't how the name is correctly romanized as. Geg 23:22, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * PS, here's the video with the spelling "Kiees" on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUZe0v71awU&search=Gash%20Bell%20146. It's at 9:16. Geg 23:38, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeek. I am SO sorry. I can't let issues drop, can I? I think it's genetic or something. So, yeah, It's not the name stuff that bugs me, it's the implied fact that you think every ZB fan who spells the names this way is mistaken. They can't ALL be wrong.... can they?... EO
 * I'd thought about that too, but the only place I've actually seen translations of those characters is gashchan's site. There aren't any manga scanlations out that I know of, and the fansubs haven't made it that far yet. The thing is, most fans of Japanese anime have to rely on the translations on pretty much everything. And when the main source of the translations makes errors, it's going to effect all the fans who depend on that site for its translations. But yeah, I find it hard to believe that there aren't more people than me who noticed those translation errors. We'll just have to see if "everyone" actually does thing the names are spelled "Karudeio", etc when the fansub comes out. Geg 23:54, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Wenten Shongfen Shonglong Penchom Wenchom Penchom Heirlofure. Bødingyonghwong Paonchom Penchai Poi Noi Garrogee Kaku. Beedur Bodur... Sorry, couldn't resist :) Keysness! But anyway, the question remains... Whose names should be up until the fansubs show their ugly heads? EO
 * Also, I will shut up about Kaudei/dio/Whateverthehecktherealtranslationis, if Geg will apologise for calling me stupid. EO
 * I apologize, and admit that it was definitely uncalled for. I went ahead and checked the LiveJournal Konjiki thing you mentioned and looked up the scans of Chatper 244 when Karudio's book gets burned. And I'll admit, it's hard to tell his name is spelled with the "di" (ディ) and not with the "dei" (デイ) in the manga text, so I can see where the main problem comes from. But elsewhere, such as the Gash Bell Wikipedia site, his name is definitely spelled カルディオ as opposed to カルデイオ. But again, I apologize for that. Geg 00:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * You know, upon looking at it again, the イ in that picture actually looks too big to be a "di" one and too small to be a "dei" one. Is there a "medium-sized" version of that katakana or something? Anywho, I'll slap the image here [[Image:Confused.jpg|thumb|right|150px|"dei" or "di"?]] until someone who knows more about Japanese than us can determine which it is.
 * It's definitely the small one. It's just hard to tell by just glancing at it. Geg 01:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Anime vs. Card game
I thought this was interesting, especially after Fein's attacks were named. According to the card game, his attack spells are spelled one way, while according to the anime, it's different. For example, his primary attack is Wigar in the card game but Ugar in the anime. How should this be handled? Geg 23:22, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, you have to understand that in any japanese anime series, there are going to be coflicts between its different story franchises. Take a look at Megaman NT for example: The story diverges incredibly in the anime, manga and game, and there is a charachter with three different root stories. Zatch Bell is no exception. For the card game, lots of things are different, such as mamodo having several spells instead of just 1-6. It's not supposed to link up with the series, its a card game. They can't control what you'll do like in a video game, and there's no real story. They have to make it fun instead of linking. As for your Wigar question, the card game is probably made by a different company than Toei with permission, like Pokemon being directed by an animation company but the card game with Wizards of the Coast. And let's face it- spells can be spelt in many other ways from the show, because the echo produced when saying the spell confuses it. I originally though it was spelt "Ugard." Spells are also different in japanese (Zaker, Zakeru- this explains the lousy English pronounciation of Zakeruga: Zakurga), so that migth be the cause as well. Who can really tell? Haku raja 04:11, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

New Mamodo
Gashchan recently added two new mamodo, the ones beaten by Karudeio in a flashback in the chapter he gets sent back in:



Apparently their real names are, in katakana, 巻貝 (the demon-looking one) and マーライオン (the drill guy). It seems she hasn't translated the names yet, as she has assigned them "temporary names". could someone translate the names so I can add them? EO


 * I'm beginning to wonder about some of these extraneous Mamono. How could these two show up, but not several of the other extraneous Mamono that have shown up through the series? (like the ones in Apollo's flashback or a couple other times)  We know there are easily a hundred Mamono sent to the human world, but Raiku isn't going in to all of them.  Not to mention I personally think we should seperate manga Mamono to the filler ones such as Hyde and the game ones.

AFD debate link
This article has been kept following this AFD debate. Sjakkalle (Check!)  08:38, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Japanese names of spells

 * I'm transcribing these manually from the Japanese versions with my limited knowledge of hiragana. My computer doesn't support Unicode so I'm taking stabs at the lettering based on Wikipedia articles.  If any errors jump out at any of you more experienced users (or if you happen to have a manga-based transcription), feel free to correct me. Danny Lilithborne 08:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

New spells.

 * Too many people are adding new spells without providing any source or verification. I can give leeway to mamodo that are featured in video games, but characters that appeared just once will only show so many spells.  If you're going to add new spells, please provide in the edit summary some kind of verifiable information about where that spell was used, or it'll get reverted. Danny Lilithborne 07:09, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * A lot of these spells exist in the card and video games, but not the manga or anime. There should be some way of letting the reader know that. Danny Lilithborne 02:03, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Some clean up
Made a general format clean up (main and nihongo templates, dash format). It doesn't seem I have overwritten anything, but if so, sorry. Also, is it really needed to have headlines like "Someone and Unknown"? If so, all "Unknown" should be changed to "unknown" for the guidelines. Also, I suggest creating a table, or at least float all images to the right to save some space. -- ReyBrujo 20:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Japanese voice actor of Robnos

 * While researching seiyuu information, I came across a lot of information that said that Mayumi Tanaka was the voice of Robnos, contrary to what this page originally stated (Konami Yoshida). However, Googling both names with "Robnos" results in equal information for either (AnimeNewsNetwork says it's Tanaka, Seiyuu.info says it's Yoshida). Since I am bad at Japanese, and the voices sound similar to me, I am not sure what to make of this.  Little help? Danny Lilithborne 08:39, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * This page used to have Mayumi Takana as the voice of Robnos. I only recently noticed it said "Konami Yoshida" as well. The Japanese Wikipedia has it listed as Konami Yoshida as well, but I'm almost positive it also used to have Mayumi Takana. edit: I'll have the answer in a few minutes. Geg 16:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * It's Yoshida. I checked the credits of the Japanese episode. Geg 16:37, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

A minor note
I must say this, so feel free to boo and hiss me. For the sake of the page, we should not alter the names of spells that have not appeared in the U.S. yet. That means that we should not subtract u's or change "shirudo" to "shield" on spells that have only been seen in the Japanaese version thus far. For all we know they could wind up totally different from our expectations. Thank you. EO

Photobucket links
Are they really necessary? I mean, linking to images about every attack in the series, seeing the amount of characters and attacks, may not be appropriate. I am tempted to add a External links tag to the article, but will wait some days to see if there is a good reason for keeping them. -- ReyBrujo 23:23, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Please do so. --  Zanimum 19:57, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Article Change

 * This article will be changed to List of mamodo in Zatch Bell!

Mamodo Info
Can some add bio info to each mamodo.