Talk:List of metropolitan areas by population/Archive 5

Saint Petersburg
According to Saint Petersburg page the population there is 4,879,566 which should get it on the list. The reference is also from Russian Federal State Statistics Service, which is a government source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.76.66.104 (talk) 21:11, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Los Angeles
Los Angeles only 13 million???? You sure???? I'm sure all the L.A Area must have at least 18 million people maybe more, where did you get that data?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.73.189.175 (talk) 18:09, 19 August 2015 (UTC)


 * It mostly depends on how you draw the boundary. See Greater Los Angeles Area for the definitions of the "Combined Statistical Area" and the "Metropolitan Statistical Area". --BjKa (talk) 08:12/13, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Discrepancy with other pages (viz. Bangkok)
The Bangkok entry on this page has 8.3M, but the main WP page on Bangkok states 8.3M as the city-population, but 18M as the metro population (in the sidebar). [I spot-checked Tokyo's page, and that one seems correct: 13M for the city-population, and 35M for the metro area.] So either Bangkok's primary page is wrong, or (I'm guessing more likely) this page isn't using the correct number.

It might be worth double-checking this page with the primary page for each city (perhaps people could check five at a time, and add a note here which ones have been double-checked?). not-just-yeti (talk) 18:23, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Japan
Please update Japan's information using the official government census: http://www.e-stat.go.jp/SG1/estat/List.do?bid=000001053739& #60. This source is much better, for example the data is currently incomplete with Tokyo at 36,923,000 however the new source will fix it with 36,923,193, Osaka 19,342,000 ->19,341,976, Nagoya 9,107,000 -> 9,107,414.

Also Fukuoka-Kitakyushu needs to be added to the list with a population of 5,515,427 as of 2010 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Itoen90 (talk • contribs) 08:50, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Indonesia
Jakarta has a population of approximately 30 million people in its metropolitan area (2nd biggest in the world). The population of 9,607,787 people live in the proper city of Jakarta. And there are two Surabaya sections, the first seems to be the metropolitan area population, the second seems to be the proper city popultaion. Could anyone change the population of Jakarta to 30,091,131 people and delete the second section of Surabaya? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.154.16.208 (talk) 10:22, 20 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Two Surabayas is ridiculous. Elcalebo (talk) 12:29, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Singapore
Singapore has a population of 5.47 million, not 5.469 million, pls make it more accurate for better providing of information so as to benefit people who are attempting to collect data using Wikipedia (including myself) , https://www.google.com.sg/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1WLXB_enSG578SG578&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=population%20of%20singapore%202015 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr Lepak (talk • contribs) 11:00, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Chongqing
"As of 2010 census, the municipality had a population of 28,846,170". Yeah, it's not a metropolitan area, but surely the world's largest municipality should make the list when it surpasses most metropolitan areas easily. --BjKa (talk) 08:12, 22 September 2015 (UTC)


 * That figure wouldn't be close to what a metropolitan area is. It encompasses huge swaths of rural areas and there is a considerable if not more than the majority of people in the rural areas where they don't commute to the urban area. I haven't seen a reliable source that has taken that figure seriously especially when comparing it to the size of other metropolitan areas, urban areas, agglomerations, etc. That definition has also brought contention on another article, List of cities proper by population and the only editor that I know who took that figure seriously made their own article. Elockid  ( Talk ) 12:58, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Cairo
Cairo metro area is enormous and is conspicuously absent from this list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.173.79.204 (talk) 01:45, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Karachi
Can somebody update the Karachi population and reference which is 23,800,000. --Jjkajaja (talk) 18:58, 23 July 2015 (UTC) Now Karachi population is 24,000,000 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.160.119.92 (talk) 10:53, 5 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Those are not "official" estimates. Elockid  ( Talk ) 12:08, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 November 2015
The note for Los Angeles doesn't work

165.91.12.120 (talk) 09:01, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Cannolis (talk) 06:54, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Karachi
Karachi is 6th largest city in the world but is absent from this list..Mohsin17 (talk) 06:23, 20 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Agglomeration is not the same thing as metropolitan area. None of the sources that were added were official. A newspaper is NOT an official source. Elockid  Message me 18:30, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Metropolitan areas in Pakistan
Lahore, Faisalabad, Rawalpindi-Islamabad metropolitan areas are enormous and are conspicuously absent from this list. No metropolitan area from Pakistan has been added so far. Mohsin17 (talk) 06:20, 20 November 2015 (UTC)


 * One of the sources you used, Demographia is not an official source. Secondly, that is for urban area and not metropolitan area. Thirdly if we were to use the number from Demographia, Faisalabad for example does not 6.5 million people. The source states a much lower population estimate. Again though, this is NOT an official source. Elockid  Message me 18:35, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Metropolitan areas in Pakistan
I think Wikipedia doesn't want to add even a single metropolitan area from Pakistan as it is a third world Asian country Sadly, Mohsin17 (talk) 06:59, 22 November 2015 (UTC)


 * No. There are other Asian countries on the list that are considered third world. For example India, Indonesia, the Philippines, and Thailand. The problem has already been listed above. Elockid  Message me 22:11, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Moscow
Where is Moscow? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.139.118.148 (talk) 02:49, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Johannesburg
Johannesburg metropolitan Area is about 10 million people but its not on the list. It includes Johannesburg City which is 4,434,827 million, Ekurhuleni 3,178,470, Tshwane (Pretoria) at 2,921,488 all of which are part of the same metropolitian area with people commuting between all the areas. http://www.statssa.gov.za/?page_id=1021&id=city-of-johannesburg-municipality

Not sure how exactly to update it though. Frombelow (talk) 16:24, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Jakarta
The Greater Jakarta Area consists of a number of contiguous cities and is referred to as "Jabodetabek", The 2010 census recorded a population of over 28 million for this statistical division and the 2014 estimate was 30 million. The figure quoted in this list refers only to the core of the metropolis (DKI Jakarta). Use this wiki page as a guideline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabodetabek. The Indonesian government statistics are generally reliable but may actually be an underestimate, as people avoid census counts because they are registered as living in other parts of Indonesia and are working in Jakarta unofficially. The count doesn't also include "foreigners" living and working in Jabodetabek. So anyway I think you get my point.

This also doesn't include Bandung, but ribbon development is joining the two so once that happens we may be looking at a new largest megalopolis. I've been to Tokyo and Seoul, I lived in Jakarta for 4 years. Greater Jakarta is definitely bigger than Seoul and is easily the second largest metropolitan area in the world. People commute from the farthest reaches and spend hours on the road/rail each day to get into the city to work, so they can afford the housing in the outer reaches.

I am a longstanding wikipedia editor btw (years, I forget how many), I normally restrict myself to grammar edits and don't usually log in. This downgrading of Jakarta's status is a consistent and glaring error and calls the whole list into question. So anyway, make what you will, Greater Jakarta AKA Jabodetabek is the second largest metropolis in the world, with or without the recognition of Wikipedia, which has no academic standing anyway. Up to you if you are interested. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.178.26.204 (talk) 02:12, 17 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia pages are not considered reliable sources and should not be used as a guideline for content. The problem with the data from Indonesia is that it's hard to maintain. Previously, there was a figure for Jabotabek, but the Indonesian government appears to routinely change domains. This makes it hard for other editors to verify whether the information in the article is the same as the source. If you have the link that directly states the population (the Wikipedia page is pretty much unsourced and suggests that original research is present in the article), you're welcome to share it with us. Elockid  Message me 04:18, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2016
Change population of Karachi to concurrr with this Wikipedia site https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_proper_by_population

132.156.224.221 (talk) 17:22, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: "Metropolitan areas" are not the same as "cities proper". They numbers should not match.  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) Please &#123;&#123;re&#125;&#125; 20:21, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

background color?
--Diwas (talk) 19:43, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Istanbul
It is a common misconception that Turks do things properly, so when you get figures from Turkish Bureau of Statistics (TUIK)’s Address-Based Population Recording System (ADNKS) you would think that is a proper estimate of population. Here are the problems with that: our current official definition of a metropolitan area is simply the entire province, including rural areas sometimes over 100km away from the actual metro area (this was done recently as a gerrymandering tactic by the current government which gets more votes from rural areas). This usually results in overestimation of metro areas. However, in the case of Istanbul there is another problem: Istanbul’s urban sprawl has spilled over to the neighboring provinces decades ago, but those bits don’t count in the official figures. This makes Istanbul underestimated. (plus I think the figure here are 2014, so that adds to the underestimation)

The data I provide below are the official Dec.2015 figures (in thousands) from Turkish Bureau of Statistics’ ADNKS as well, but I am using county-level data under the guidance of GoogleEarth as well as first hand knowledge.

Istanbul province 14657 (i.e. official figure for metropolitan municipality). Substract rural Şile and Adalar from this to get 14608.

Uninterrupted urbanization that conects to this: Çayırova, Darıca, Dilovası, Gebze counties of Kocaeli province and MarmaraEreğlisi county of Tekirdağ province. Total population 720, bringing the total of Istanbul “urban area” or “urban agglomeration” (as defined in the respective wiki pages of these terms) to 15328.

In addition to these, there are towns that have daily commuter relations with Istanbul: Başiskele, Derince, Gölcük, İzmit, Kartepe and Körfez counties of Kocaeli province; Çerkezköy and Çorlu counties of Tekirdağ province. Total population 1375, bringing the total of Istanbul “metropolitan area” (as defined in the wiki page of this term) to 16703.

So the correct figure is 16.7 million at the end of 2015.

Note: I'll post a copy of this to talk pages of other population lists in Wikipedia. Nkt777 (talk) 23:14, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Where the hell is Cairo?!
see title

According to Wikipedia, Cairo has like 20 mill people, which puts it like in the top 10. Come on guys — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.220.196.119 (talk) 15:23, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Removal of rank column
I have removed the rank column from the list. The values in this column were unsupported original synthesis (though based on reliably sourced population figures) and were obviously not all correct because the list is clearly incomplete. For example, because the list does not contain Moscow or Cairo, and listed Melbourne as the 84th largest metropolitan area in the world, preceded by 83 metro areas that were not Moscow or Cairo, the list was making the claim that Melbourne is a larger metro area than both Moscow and Cairo, which is an obvious falsehood. Please do not add the rank column back without references to reliable sources supporting those ranking numbers specifically. —Bkell (talk) 01:18, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Color key: why are some populations shown in a blue background?
This table is desperately in need of a color key. Nowhere in the article is there any discussion of why some fields are blue and others are not.

I'd fix it myself, but I don't know why either. Cernansky (talk) 18:14, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Moscow and St.Petersburg missed
Moscow metropolitan area 16,170,000 (2015)

Saint Petersburg metropolitan area 5,140,000 - 6,200,000 (2016).


 * Moscow has been added, but not assigned any rank though, that's weird.--Waylesange (talk) 17:04, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

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Requested move 24 June 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved. No support has been risen over the last 2 weeks. (non-admin closure).  Anarchyte  ( work  &#124;  talk )  07:13, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

List of metropolitan areas by population → List of metropolitan areas – concision 68.151.25.115 (talk) 14:20, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose - No argument provided for move. This article is specifically a list of areas by population, not just a list of areas. The current title clearly identifies the article topic so it seems best here. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 19:10, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
 * for concision, the argument was concision. list of metropolitan areas redirects here and list of metropolitan areas by area doesnt exist68.151.25.115 (talk) 19:36, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
 * That there is a redirect to this article doesn't mean that are the same thing. This article has existed since 2002. The redirect wasn't created until November 2015, for reasons that were not explained. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 20:24, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
 * then you should read wp:title to familiarize yourself with terse and direct article titles68.151.25.115 (talk) 06:07, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but I don't understand what you're trying to say. There is nothing wrong with article title. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 10:53, 25 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Ordinarily I'd be sympathetic to a WP:CONCISE argument, but like AussieLegend I'm not sure it applies here. IN particular, this is not a list of all metropolitan areas, and it doesn't attempt to be. It is a list of the largest such in teh world, as ranked by population. Hence the qualifier is quite important. The redirect exists because this is the best we could do for a reader looking for a list of metropolitan areas, but it isn't actually that in itself. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 14:19, 30 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merged without discussion
It seems this list has been merged without discussion, at least without mentioning the discussion here. Merging wasn't followed. Batternut (talk) 11:19, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

United States - CSA or MSA
When I browsed this article last night, I saw that the United States' entries all use CSA numbers - except the California entries (Los Angeles, San Francisco, "Inland Empire") (and Phoenix, which doesn't have a CSA) which use MSA numbers. I edited so that all entries use CSA numbers (since that was already the majority of entries) so there was some consistency. clicklander reverted the edit, saying the article is about metro areas, not statistical areas. However, by simply reverting the edit, clicklander left the article in an inconsistent state with regard to MSA vs CSA in the data.

Although I have my opinion, I don't care which we use - but it needs to be consistent. I have re-edited so that all US entries use MSAs. Dtcomposer (talk) 18:32, 27 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Dtcomposer it is not only a matter of consistency among the US cities, the list needs to be in consistence for all cites and should reflect its title. This term CSA is something else that usual does not apply for other countries outside US. Therefore the metro data should be used where possible. There is also another list: List of urban areas by population, I am not sure if the CSA data fit better to this list. --Clicklander (talk) 09:05, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Cairo
I've seen it's been brought up before, but its seems very wrong that Cairo is not on the list, independent of what source you use. The wiki-page on Cairo says ~15million which would put it top 15. City population is stated as 9.5m, still making the list as 45th biggest city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.235.3.51 (talk) 06:24, 27 October 2017‎ (UTC)
 * Agreed, and added. Batternut (talk) 22:47, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Indiaonlinepages.com figures
Are Indiaonlinepages.com's estimated population figures OK for use in this article? Eg, Bangalore 12,339,447. Please discuss at WP:RSN. Batternut (talk) 09:13, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

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Metropolitan area?
A few day’s ago I Added the Flemish diamond (metropolitan area) to this list. But it was removed again by a user who claims it doesn’t belong in this list because it is a collection of multiple metropolitan areas. Instead of adding it again I would like to discus this first. If this is a good argument for removing the Flemish diamond there are a few other regions in this list of which the same can be said. For example: Randstad located in the Netherlands; You could as well call that a collection of the metropolitan area’s of The Hague, Amsterdam, Rotterdam,... combined. Same goes for the Rhine-Rhur metropolitan area as well. I can understand the argument for removing the Flemish diamond in some way, but not while there are multiple other area’s included in the list of which the same can be said. Falco iron (talk) 23:48, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I would say that the Flemish diamond is very similar in its polycentric nature to the Rhine-Rhur, also to Keihanshin, Seoul Capital Area (aka Seoul on this list), and I expect several others too. They all tend to be described as "metropolitan regions" rather than "metropolitan areas" (the distinction between which is pretty vague, as demonstrated by WP not having a metro region article.) Batternut (talk) 01:27, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Chinese cities
I think that the datas of Chinese cities such as Guangzhou, Shenzen and Chongquin, among others, are wrong. It is very hard to apply the concept of metropolitan areas to Chinese cities. The population of those cities in the list do not fit with the ones on the cities' individual pages. The number do not even make sense. How can the urban population of Guangzhou be 11 million, the one of the city itself 14 million, and the one of the metropolitan area 25 000 000? I think that there should be a verification of those numbers, or the removal of some of those cities from the list, since some of them are closer to being provinces than cities (the sub-provincial cities). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cleme201101 (talk • contribs) 21:27, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The metro area population is normally larger than the urban population as it includes neighbouring towns and cities. The sub-provincial city population includes both urban and some rural population because the "city limits" are the prefecture boundary, which often includes rural areas. It happens in other countries too (apparently particularly so with Chinese city stats). Batternut (talk) 02:19, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

The Chines cities use a FUA, or a Function Urban Area. They include more neighboring towns or cities. 470412j (talk) 00:48, 16 March 2018 (UTC)470412j

Metropolitan Area Rhine-Ruhr
Regarding the incorrect re-edit by User:Batternut

The outdated source source is indicating itself, that in this brochure, other definitions were made to give a wider picture of the wider area (like a "metropolitan area area") and must not follow the legal definitions of one of the eleven German "Metropolregionen". Especially it is concerning more parts of the affected municipalities (precise: the Kreise (districts)) than chosen by the authorities when determining the Metropolregion.

See page six of the pdf: "Abgrenzung der Metropolregionen Ein regionales Monitoring ist nicht möglich ohne präzise räumliche Bezüge. Die Abgrenzung der Europäischen Metropolregionen in dieser Monitor-Broschüre basiert auf Kreisgrenzen, um möglichst viele relevante und jährlich verfügbare Daten aus dem Datensatz des Bundesamts für Bauwesen und Raumordnung verwenden zu können. Sie kann sich im Einzelfall von Festlegungen in Programmen und Plänen der Raumordnung und Landesplanung sowie von administrativen oder vereinbarten Abgrenzungen in den Europäischen Metropolregionen unterscheiden."

There is a definition of "Metropolregion Rhein-Ruhr" by law, the "Landesentwicklungsplan NRW 1995".

You can find a map of the legal definition here

Following the differences, the IKM monitoring is counting for example the complete Kreis Viersen, even though Schwalmtal is not part of Metropolregion Rhein-Ruhr. Adding up all this municipalities is at about 900,000 more inhabitants by the incorrect monitoring than by officially census data found here.

And dear [User:Batternut]]: "Hogwash" is to use sources you do not understand because of your lack of knowledge about the German language and your lack of knowledge about the federal system of Germany and its districts.

Even more hogwash is using outdated numbers instead of the latest numbers from the same source and its news section as given here

--BJBH (talk) 23:34, 27 March 2018 (UTC)


 * It seems that you have added up some individual census figures to come up with your own total for the metro area. This is WP:Original Research, which alas runs foul of Wikipedia policy, as I pointed out in my first revert comment. Furthermore, your interpretation of the the NRW 1995 development plan seems risky as it only speaks of urban areas, urban fringes and the quirky German Verdichtungsgebiet? Unless you find your figure actually quoted by someone I suggest you self-revert your OR. Batternut (talk) 13:53, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
 * This is WP:Original Research --BJBH (talk) 18:57, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, "provided there is consensus among editors". Would you mind providing your calculations please? No consensus has so far been established - let's do it now! Batternut (talk) 21:35, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam should definitely be included in this list of metro areas by population. It has an official population of over 8 million and unofficial of over 13 million. Much bigger than many cities in this list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tpruchinski (talk • contribs) 13:36, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Milan - why is it in the list TWICE?
Milan, why is it in the list twice? 54th & 59th. Should one of them be Rome? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.184.167.54 (talk) 13:11, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Blue Background in Table
Can anyone explain why some of the items in the table in this article have a blue background, and maybe add that to the article? None of the other population lists have a similar feature. Dukeofwulf (talk) 03:56, 27 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Since it went unanswered for about half a year, I've deleted the blue background. Anyone who wants to revert, don't do this unless you make it clear in the article what the meaning of the background is. --82.161.255.208 (talk) 17:43, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

New York
As of 2010, the NY metro area is the 3rd largest only behind Tokyo and Seoul. It should be changed to 3rd before Mexico City. Regards. (Central Data Bank (talk))


 * This is only true if you use the CSA definition. However, CSAs comprise of multiple metropolitan statistical (MSA) and/or micropolitan statistical areas. In the general sense, MSAs are the most common I've seen used to define a metropolitan area. Elockid  ( Talk )

Kuala Lumpur
The population of the Greater Kuala Lumpur area is over 7 million. Should it be included in the list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pankour (talk • contribs) 14:18, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Orphaned references in List of metropolitan areas by population
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of metropolitan areas by population's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "profile": From Delhi:  From National Capital Region (India):  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 10:09, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Method quality and quality of the data
I do not necessarily doubt the method used, and I understand that it is difficult to assess an accurate number, but the dataset seems to be not necessarily reproducible between different cities and areas. IMO it would be good to also add an entry correlating the SIZE of the area compared; and to try to refer the most recent data, some of it is already almost 5 years old. The ideal variant would be if this could be obtained automatically in the future, but before this can happen, I think there need to be standards to specify what is actually compared, and the size/area used for reference purposes. 2A02:8388:1641:8380:8920:7EEB:D50A:6466 (talk) 18:18, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Agree that a column with area should be added. This already exists in similar articles like List of urban areas by population. —Ynhockey (Talk) 09:43, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Moscow is the largest EUROPEAN city, not in Asia
Why is Moscow listed as Asian when even the Moscow article says it is the largest metro area in *Europe*? Please correct this. 5.173.138.123 (talk) 10:32, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅ Guarapiranga (talk) 21:18, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Also Istanbul is problematic. Being a transcontinental city with most of the population in Europe, it should say "Europe/Asia". It is probably the only transcontinental city in the list.
 * Another problem with the current version of the list is that the ranking column does not follow the rest of the table. On an iPad or an iPhone the column for "Continent" breaks into two lines for "North America" and "South America", destroying the connection between number and proper list. Same thing may happen on a proper computer, depending on the with of the window. --T*U (talk) 10:11, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅ How does it look now, ? Guarapiranga (talk) 11:22, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Istanbul is fine, but the column problem is unchanged. --T*U (talk) 12:16, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Found it: It was "nowrap", not " nonwrap "! --T*U (talk) 12:26, 13 November 2019 (UTC)