Talk:List of monuments and memorials removed during the George Floyd protests/Archive 5

Requested move 24 January 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved   Red   Slash  19:50, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

List of monuments and memorials removed during the George Floyd protests → List of monuments and memorials removed due to the George Floyd protests – We still have people waving signs in the street in my town, but it's unclear if some people consider the protests to have ended already, or when they should be considered over for the purposes of this list. But really, we don't care if the move happened during the protest, so much as because of the protest. Some moves were announced during very active protests, but not carried out until much later. This rename would also align this article with List of changes made due to the George Floyd protests and List of name changes due to the George Floyd protests. -- Beland (talk) 23:15, 24 January 2022 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose: As previously expressed in April 2021, "The proposed title asserts a cause-and-effect relationship that would often be impossible to establish. It is easier to identify a period of time than to reach a clear conclusion about why something happened." If it is too difficult to determine the duration of "the George Floyd protests" or if we want to change the timeframe, then we should use a different way of defining the period of time or other criteria for inclusion. The continued use of "the George Floyd protests" may be part of the problem, as it attributes too much to one incident. The George Floyd killing is not the only incident that motivates the Black Lives Matter movement, for example. See Murder of Ahmaud Arbery, Killing of Breonna Taylor and Killing of Manuel Ellis for three examples. For the statues removed in Georgia, can we really say they had more to do with George Floyd than with Ahmaud Arbery? How about Kentucky statues and Breonna Taylor? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:28, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose Per BarrelProof. Hard to prove that something was "due to the protests" or if they were due to a climate of increasing anti-racist activism that included the fact that the protests even happened in the first place.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 12:18, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose if this move were to happen then this article would have to be drastically pruned. OrewaTel (talk) 20:41, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The question of what would happen if the protests (specifically those about Floyd's murder) came to an end but the removals continued was always going to be a problem, but as I mentioned in the last RM it's a huge headache to try and verify a causal link to the protests for each work. Better to use the rule of thumb "works removed in the period after Floyd's murder because of a link to racism, plus those toppled by BLM (or other anti-racist) protesters, whether connected to racism or not, and those removed for fear of being damaged in anticipated protests". I would suggest renaming to Monuments and memorials removed following the George Floyd protests, because "following" helpfully blurs "as a result of the protests" and "occurring after the protests began". (I'm still keen to drop "List of" for brevity's sake.) BarrelProof has given a reason why "George Floyd protests" might not work in the title (and I myself have previously argued for dropping the phrase), so I would also consider "Monuments and memorials removed following the 2020 Black Lives Matter protests". The date would be necessary there because there were BLM protests before Floyd's murder, and Confederate memorials were already being removed during that time. Ham II (talk) 10:02, 29 January 2022 (UTC)