Talk:List of musicians who play left-handed

Mandolin and Ukulele
Added Paul McCartney in both of them — Preceding unsigned comment added by Megabar09 (talk • contribs) 21:30, 27 November 2009‎

Backyard Babies
Backyard Babies's drummer Peder Carlsson plays drums Left Handed so should he be added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Megabar09 (talk • contribs) 21:30, 27 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, but it is best to have a reference. He needs to actually play left-handed, not be left-handed because some left-handed people play right-handed.  Bubba73 (the argument clinic), 21:45, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

"Keep. Articles for deletion 	This page was nominated for deletion on 2008 July 2. The result of the discussion was no consensus." it seems u have nothing to do? go and delete yourself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.50.47.90 (talk) 15:39, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Hendrix
I'm pretty sure I remember Hendrix actually wrote Right Handed, and played Guitar left. I'm confident cause I do the opposite. Like him, I guess I just find it easier to fret with my dominant hand, cause Picking is easy to learn. AznWarlord (talk) 20:50, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * That is true about Hendrix. However, I believe that Hendrix was naturally left-handed but forced to write right-handed, as was a common practice at that time.  But the way you do it (fret with the dominant hand) - if that was applied to right-handed people then right-handed people would pick with the left hand instead of the right hand.  Often when a left-handed person plays right-handed it is because they had no lefty guitar available, or because no one would teach them to play left-handed.  Bubba73 (talk), 21:35, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Changes to guitarists
I categorized guitarists according to whether they play a right-handed guitar upside down (i.e. with the stings backwards for a left-handed player), or left-handed with the stings correct. Ones that are reported as playing left-handed but are not known which of these two categories they belong are under "unclassified". Please move them into one of the other two categories if you know where they belong. Bubba73 (talk), 20:22, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

We need a list of left handed guitarists that play right handed.
e.g. Noel Gallagher of Oasis

Dave Hill of Slade Mariegriffiths (talk) 20:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 *  This fragment of the relevant edit history confirms good intentions, inattention to orderly procedure, and muddying of who has said which about what, in the preceding 2 non-blank lines. --Jerzy•t 22:34, 13 July 2016 (UTC) 


 * There was an article with such information, but it was deleted because people felt that it was unimportant. They thought that it was just an arbitraty intersection of two sets of people.  I was able to recover a copy of that old article, and it is User:Bubba73/Lefties.  See if you can use that to get a list.  Bubba73 (talk), 00:57, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

List cleanup
My God. Doesn't anyone know what alphabetical order is?! Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 03:01, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Is the alphabet in alphabetical order?2003:CA:3F1D:6736:2195:E62F:BD97:4E8 (talk) 17:52, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:JimiHendrix2.jpg
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 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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✅ Bubba73 (talk), 01:12, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Notable musicians
This is a list of notable musicians. Let's only list ones who either have their own article or there is an article about their group. Bubba73 (talk), 20:33, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Nonsense. It is not their individual notability that is at issue. As long as the info is verifiable, their relationship to this article is as instances illustrating or confirming the phenomena and patterns of musicians (among those serious enuf for verifiability to exist) adapting their individual developmental or physical statuses to the demands of predominantly mass-production of instruments, and the problems of getting adequate mentoring from a body of practitioners who are overwhelmingly both right-handed and experienced with right-handed (or left-handed but right-adapted) musicians. --Jerzy•t 01:28, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Ringo Starr
Ringo Starr was born left-handed, but was forced to write with his right hand. He does most things left-handed, but he plays drums (and guitar) right-handed. He has his drum set arranged as for a right-handed person and he does accents with the left-hand, the way a right-handed person does. He says that he does lead off with the left hand when doing a fill. Bubba73 (talk), 21:08, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Joe Long
Joe Long of The Four Seasons plays bass left handed due to a hand injury that made it impossible for him to press the frets with his left hand. This information is publically available in his interviews. B. Ryan173.76.242.72 (talk) 21:03, 26 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The Joe Long article doesn't say. This old photo] show him playing left-handed but this more recent one does not, if I got the right Joe Long.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 21:44, 26 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Can you link to an interview where he states it? Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 22:21, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

removed from introduction
I removed most of the left-handed people who play right-handed from the introduction, e.g. David Bowie, Ritchie Blackmore, Mike Bloomfield, Rik Emmett, Robert Fripp, Matt Sharp, Noel Gallagher, Danny Gatton, Duff McKagan, Mike Starr, Barry Gibb, Janick Gers, Tom Araya, Dave Lombardo, Joan Jett, Mark Knopfler, Gary Moore, Niall Horan, Steve Morse, Joe Perry, Chris Rea,Chris Martin and Ringo Starr. The reason is that the list is too long.

Years ago this article was proposed for deletion on the basis that it is just the intersection of two groups: left-handed people and musicians. In those days the article had a section on left-handed people who play right-handed. It was decided that the article could be kept if that part was removed and there was more context of the properties of playing left-handed. That was done. Having a long list of left-handed people who play right-handed does not improve the article and that was objected to in the deletion discussion. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 17:29, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

== Left-handed conductors / Donald Runnicles ==

It seems the Scottish conductor Donald Runnicles "plays" left-handed, that is he holds the baton (when he does) and he beats the tempo (with or without baton) with his left-hand. (One normally does it with the right-hand). As sources I have this YouTube video of him conducting Bruckner Symphony 8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wbf5SVOXI0 and two pictures on his web site http://www.donaldrunnicles.com/home.html. Note I don't know if he is left-handed only that he conducts left-handed. The way he holds his hands on a claymore in another picture on his site suggests he might be right-handed. (Right-hand on top of left-handed, which is usually a mark of right-handedness).

Now two questions:
 * Do you agree that left-handed conductors belong here?
 * Is the information that Donald Runnicles is a left-handed conductor verifiable from the point of view of Wikipedia, given the sources above?

Signed: Basemetal ( write to me here) 21:14, 6 December 2012 (UTC) Basemetal  12:55, 14 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I do not think left-handed conductors belong here because it is different from a musician - most instruments are right-handed. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 02:03, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Signed: Basemetal ( write to me here) 02:18, 7 December 2012 (UTC) Basemetal  12:55, 14 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I know, but what is different about conducting left-handed versus right-handed? Irrelevant Intersections for Lists seems to apply.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 02:26, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

The hands do specific, distinct jobs. Conductors use their right-hand to signal the tempo and the left-hand to indicate dynamics, phrasing, etc. Cueing entrances is mostly done with the left hand but sometimes with the right hand etc. (More information here on the technique of conducting). Left-handed conductors do all of this with the "other" hand, just like left-handed instrumentalists do what the right-handed instrumentalists do but with the "other" hand. In the case of conductors there is another aspect, namely the disposition of the orchestra. Since it is not normally reseated for a left-handed conductor, left-handed conducting is more akin to a left-handed guitarist who would be playing a right-hand guitar that had been turned around but not restrung like a proper left-handed guitar, in other words a left-handed guitarist in group 1.2 in the article. So the relation with the orchestra is different since the groups of instruments that are on the side of the "bad" hand or the "good" hand would be reversed. I think you had a problem in the past trying to explain to people what difference it made to a guitarist to be right- or left-handed and now I find myself trying to explain to you what difference it makes to a conductor to be right- or left-handed. Oh irony! Now I'm not necessarily insistent that left-handed conductors do indeed necessarily belong here, but if we say they don't, then it should be for good reasons. Of course playing the orchestra is not exactly the same as directly playing an instrument, but it is more similar than what people completely unfamiliar with conducting tend to think. As to the notion that it is irrelevant, like say fat conductors or black conductors or female conductors or conductors who also play the trombone or like fishing, I think it is wrong since handedness is not irrelevant to the act of conducting, so I don't see that Irrelevant Intersections for Lists, which I've just read, applies. I suggest we just wait, get some more opinions, see what people think and go from there. Signed: Basemetal ( write to me here) 03:32, 7 December 2012 (UTC) Basemetal  12:55, 14 September 2016 (UTC)


 * This article was up for deletion twice because people thought that it was an irrelevant intersection, akin to left-handed actors or left-handed politicians. It was a hard fight to get it to stay.  There used to be a section on left-handed people who play right-handed, but that had to go in order to keep the rest.  The reason the article was allowed to stay is that it provided context.  What are the differences between left-handed and right-handed playing?  What about the instruments - playing a right-handed one, altering a right-handed one to play left-handed, or a true left-handed instrument, etc.  There is no such difference for a conductor.  I am sympathetic, but I fail to see how conducting left-handed is anything other than the mirror image of doing it right-handed.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:48, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't quite understand what the problem with that could be. Even if it was just the mirror image (it's not, see above, but ok), a guitarist playing left-handed a left-handed guitar, isn't that just the mirror image of a guitarist playing right-handed a right-handed guitar? Signed: Basemetal ( write to me here) 16:31, 7 December 2012 (UTC) Basemetal  12:55, 14 September 2016 (UTC)


 * A left-handed person playing a true left-handed instrument is a mirror image, but that isn't the only way that it is done. Also, there are issues of getting a left-handed instrument, whereas I don't think there is such a thing as a left-handed baton.  Also, there is a whole book on how left-handed guitarists are different.  There are also guitar instruction books specifically for left-handed players and left-handedness is discussed in several guitar books.  If you have a reliable source discussing left-handed conducting, then put it in.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 17:11, 7 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I feel a bit like we're moving the goalposts as this discussion goes on and we're ending up introducing tests that are passed by only a minority of the sections in this page, in fact only one. No, I do not have a reliable source discussing left-handed conducting specifically (I'll see if usual references on conducting in general discuss left-handed conducting) but neither do we have reliable sources for left-handed drumming, trombone playing, ukulele playing, trumpet playing, banjo playing, fiddle playing or flute playing. If I had inserted a left-handed recorder player into the page there would have been no questions asked even though there's no such thing as a left-handed recorder (the instrument is perfectly symmetrical, the bansuri too btw), playing the recorder left-handed is the perfect mirror-image of playing it right-handed and whether or not there was a reliable source on left-handed recorder playing. It's clear there's a problem of interpretation with conducting vs playing a "real" instrument, I can see that myself, or I wouldn't have started by discussing it on the talk page, I would have just created a section in the article and inserted the name. You seem to feel strongly that conducting cannot be assimilated to playing an instrument but you've gotta try harder to put into words what you feel the problem is because the reasons you've given up to now sound more like rationalization.
 * We're gonna waste time if we don't keep our eyes firmly on the two real issues. One, can conducting be assimilated to playing a musical instrument for the purpose of this page? Would readers expect to find on this page left-handed conductors also? Or only left-handed guitarists, ukulele players, etc.? And, (if the answer to the first question is yes), are the sources given for the inclusion of an individual conductor reliable? The reliability of sources should be a requirement at that level. I don't see why reliable sources discussing left-handed conducting in general should be a requirement when they are not for all the other sections, and in fact exist only in the case of the guitar. Signed: Basemetal ( write to me here) 19:14, 7 December 2012 (UTC) Basemetal  12:55, 14 September 2016 (UTC)


 * "First it was that left-handed conductors form an irrelevant intersection" That isn't my opinion, I'm saying that is what others will probably think. That was the argument for deleting the whole article, which I obviously opposed.Bubba73You talkin' to me? 21:47, 7 December 2012 (UTC) You asked for opinions and I gave you mine.  Why don't you seek other opinions?


 * And to answer your question in the last paragraph, I don't think conducting falls in the same category as playing an instrument. If you want to, you can start an article on left-handed conductors, but it may not pass scrutiny.Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 21:41, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

This is precisely why I asked the question in the first place. And I think you're right, the issue is entirely whether there's a consensus conductors and instrumentalists play an "instrument" in a sense that is, while obviously not identical, at least analogous enough, to warrant the inclusion of conductors in this list. A 100 percent of people would say a tennis player who plays left-handed, even though his or her left-handedness may be fully relevant to his tennis playing, does not belong here. A tennis player does not play a musical instrument, is not a musician. A 100 percent of people would say someone who plays the ocarina, the accordion, etc. left-handed (assuming there are such things as left handed ocarinas or accordions) would belong here, no questions asked, along with the people who are already in the list. For conductors the proportion would be somewhere between 100 and 0. But where exactly? More than 50 percent for or more than 50 percent against? The problem is there's two few people who've intervened in this discussion (only two to date) to form an opinion on the matter. Where else could such a discussion take place where more people would be able to see the question and express an opinion? Signed: Basemetal ( write to me here) 22:39, 7 December 2012 (UTC) Basemetal  12:55, 14 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Probably the best place would be the talk page of WikiProject Music. A possible alternative is  to ask for a third opinion: Third opinion. but I think the music project would be a better place to ask, since they will be more knowledgeable.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 00:17, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. I posted the question where you suggested was the better place. If you want to follow the discussion, it is there. Thank you for your valuable input in a good conversation. Cheers Signed: Basemetal ( write to me here) 03:00, 8 December 2012 (UTC) Basemetal  12:55, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. For what it is worth, I googled "left-handed conductor" and found and among others. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:39, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
 * this
 * this

== The Rajat Tejawat Agrawal saga ==

This has been going on since November 9. This user and Sunielsingh (and one or two IP accounts, the relations between which are not clear: the first version of user:Sunielsingh is almost identical to the current version of user:Rajattejawat) have been creating articles (now deleted) around Rajat Tejawat Agrawal and his supposed JR School of Music, at Indore, in the state of Madhya Pradesh, or have been injecting Rajat Tejawat Agrawal or the JR School of Music into articles such as Indore, List of lead guitarists, List of musicians who play left-handed and Musician. In this last article Rajat Tejawat Agrawal modestly inserts himself between Bob Marley and Philip Glass (as one in a group of "well-known notable musicians" (sic)) and, truly modestly now, marks it as a minor edit.

You can check the only "contributions" of these two are there purely to advertise Rajat Tejawat Agrawal and his JR School of Music. When their "contributions" are removed they put them back in. They also most often mark them as "minor edits".

The user page of Rajat Tejawat Agrawal has an "Ads" section with a link to a commercial on YouTube. Is it ok to conduct commercial activities from your user page? Can users post ads and links to ads?

The web site ("Official website of the JR School of Music") they put in the "External links" section of one of their deleted articles, is nothing but a pathetic joke (http://www.jrmusic.in/) where none of the links leads anywhere and there's absolutely no information as to what this supposed JR School of Music, founded in May 2011 and already grown, apparently, into a "thriving Center for musical excellence", actually offers.

And, last but not least, Rajat Tejawat Agarwal has uploaded and generously donated to Wiki Commons at least two pictures of himself (Rajat Tejawat 2012.jpg and Rajat Tejawat Performing Live 2012.jpg). If I knew that you could do that I would have uploaded to Wiki Commons a picture of my 18 year cat who passed away on September 20 and deserves to be there every bit as much as Rajat Tejawat Agarwal.

Signed: Basemetal ( write to me here) 00:23, 7 December 2012 (UTC) Basemetal  12:50, 14 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree with you. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 02:19, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Justin Bieber
Justin Bieber is mentioned twice in the list of guitar players, but due to protection of the page I can't edit it. --Queenwillneverdie (talk) 14:18, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * There is a long history of someone putting him in and then someone else taking him out. I wish we could come to an agreement of whether or not he belongs there.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 14:32, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

the whole article is such a mess, but including bieber amongst the "notable" guitarists is a stretch. there used to be a nice website that listed any & all of the great & the good in four or five clearly defined categories:

left-handed but play right-handed (instrument set up for righty)

left-handed using left-handed instrument (set up for lefty)

left-handed using left-handed instrument (set up for righty)

right-handed but play left-handed (instrument set up for lefty)

right-handed but play left-handed (instrument set up for righty)

& some permutation of the above (inevitably citing hendrix, mccartney & ollie halsall)

I'd argue that such a site... a list, basically, complete with anecdotes & tips on the various practical ramifications of the matter... that's what the subject needs. this article doesn't capture the list aspect of the subject accurately or clearly, & doesn't expand on the other aspects of the topic at all, such as instrument modifications & the difficulties of finding a decent instrument made for left-handed players. I really hope the wiki police come along & erase this article soon, or at least threaten to so it gets fixed. I'd do it myself if I could find that other site.

duncanrmi (talk) 08:33, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

I might've been looking for this:

http://www.philbrodieband.com/music_left-handed-guitarists.htm

duncanrmi (talk) 08:35, 25 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The inclusion of Justin Bieber has always been contentious - someone puts him in and someone takes him out. A few years ago the article included left-handed people who played right-handed, but the article was up for deletion.  The article was saved but the section with left-handed people who play right-handed was taken out, by consensus of the people taking part in the deletion discussion.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 02:27, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

I guess there'll always be people who think it saves electricity to shorten wikipedia articles by removing information. :-/ duncanrmi (talk) 22:27, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Paul McCartney
Paul McCartney is listed as a left-handed trumpet player. I don't see any evidence that he even plays trumpet, let alone left-handed. So, assuming for the moment that he may have played trumpet, there's no evidence that he played left-handed. Only a tiny percentage of left-handed trumpet players play left-handed. Unlike left-handed guitars, left-handed trumpets are exceedingly rare. (Likewise, even right-handed french horn player play left handed).

OK, he's left handed, but if he picked up a trumpet in a recording session it's almost certain that it was an ordinary right-handed trumpet, and he used his right hand to control the valves. Likewise, when his father gave him a trumpet, it's almost certain that it was an ordinary right-handed trumpet, and he used his right hand to control the valves. The idea that he played trumpet left-handed is such an extraordinary claim that it should have extraordinary evidence. But in fact, there no evidence at all presented here.

I plan to delete the claim. Anyone have a reason for me to leave it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.68.134.1 (talk) 18:03, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, he does play the trumpet, to some degree. The pictures I've seen show him with a right-handed trumpet, but I think he was using his left hand for the valves.  I'll try to look it up.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 19:08, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * OK, I found some pictures of him, playing right-handed cornet and flugelhorn, using his left hand (which doesn't work very well). Some of the photos are mis-labeled "trumpet", but cornet and flugel are similar enough to trumpet that if he plays with his left hand on cornet and flugel, it makes sense that he does likewise on trumpet. Thanks. No deletion needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.68.134.1 (talk) 19:16, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, the book Beatles Gear says that he played the trumpet and googling "paul mccartney trumpet" shows some photos. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 19:19, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

It seems to me
that there are a lot (too many?) names here that are not blue links or associated with a blue link. On other lists I tend to remove them unless someone objects. Then, because wikipeda is a form of a relationship, we talk about it. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 18:27, 23 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I have fallen behind in monitoring changes. Yes, they should have blue links - the criteria is that they are notable, for one thing.  Also, non-notable players are not verifiable.Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:55, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
 * If we believed
 * "non-notable players are not verifiable"
 * then our lists of players (and by the same logic all our lists) would be lists referring only to articles.
 * WP:Notability devotes its 1st 'graph entirely to stating that the policy is about "whether a given topic warrants its own article". The rest of its lead section implicitly rules out exclusion from pages, and notably two of the five sentences of the final section are also devoted to allowing inclusion of such content within main-namespace pages!
 * (Emphasis & implied words added by me):
 * Such guidelines explicitly are stated to "only outline how suitable a topic is for [having] its own article[-] or list[-page]. They do not limit'' the content of an article[-] or list[-page]...."
 * --Jerzy•t 03:37, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

keyboards?
Back in the '70s, one Yes keys player had a synth set up such that the key order was reversed, with low notes on the right. With MIDI (I'm familiar with Roland products), this can often be done by a simple setting change. As this is readily accessible, without need for creating a physically "reverse" instrument, certainly someone must have done it. Weeb Dingle (talk) 19:10, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

midi. '70s. one of yes' keyboard players.

right. where to start.... midi was ratified & introduced on polyphonic synths in 1982.

tony kaye, the band's first keyboardist, was asked to leave precisely because he had no interest in synths. he's right-handed. rick wakeman, nope... vangelis tried out for the band when wakeman quit, not him. patrick moraz... nope. geoff downes (& now we're into the 80s anyway), the womble/buggle from stockport... no record of a reverse keyboard, even as a gimmick.

maybe.... maybe you're thinking of joe zawinul, founder of weather report, who is reported to have used two arp keyboards with his 2600s, one of them wired in reverse. this would surely have been a gimmick, as zawinul was a classically trained musician & would likely have struggled with this arrangement alongside playing with both hands on a conventional keyboard.

yes, it is possible to reverse the order of the keys using electronic techniques. it's even easier with midi note remapping in a moderately sophisticated synth module. but why would you do it?

duncanrmi (talk) 09:56, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * As with restringing a righthanded guitar, the change is not complete simply be reprogramming the keys. Look at the keyboard, the black keys will still be "wrong".2003:CA:3F1D:6736:2195:E62F:BD97:4E8 (talk) 17:55, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Pianists and Keyboardists
Is there any pianists and keyboardists who play left handed? 99.20.106.241 (talk) 23:04, 3 March 2022 (UTC)


 * I once saw a photo of a left-handed grand piano that was built for a left-handed person. I don't know the name.  An electronic keyboard could be made to switch to left-handed, but I don't know if any do.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 00:58, 4 March 2022 (UTC)