Talk:List of natural disasters by death toll/Archive 1

Megatsunami
There's no listing for megatsunamis. The Vajont disaster (about 2000 casualties) could be listed as a natural disaster (large landslide fell into dam reservoir resulting in a megatsunami). Compare with Banqiao dam failure reported as natural disaster caused by a typhoon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.96.203.198 (talk) 10:31, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

vulcano famine
I've removed Russian Famine from the volcanic eruptions list, it was strange to see it there.
 * Could you explain why it would be strange? Volcanoes can have indirect effects around the world (in fact, the Russian famine article does directly mention the volcano as a likely cause), leading to famine (as is the case with the Year Without a Summer), and the prehistoric eruption of Toba nearly caused a human extinction. I'll tentatively restore a mention in the table. ~ A H  1 (TCU) 01:53, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The indirect effect happened on another continent but, more importantly, in a country that was already under strain from unrest and recent war (a few years later Russia would plunge into "the Big Troubles", eight years of civil war, rebellions and invasions). It's likely there were other factors that determined how bad the failure of crops and the famine might hit - lack of animal power, earlier diseases that had weakened the peasant population, local climate factors etc. Plus all numbers for that period in Russia are quite unreliable. There is simply no way to gauge how bad the conditions, and the famine would have been without the volcanic eruption in Peru. /Strausszek (talk) 00:24, 1 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The methodology/definition in the lede for this article limits this page (I agree) to natural disasters (at least mostly, it goes on to say further down) and that only "sudden events" are included (I agree). The latter eliminates famines, epidemics, droughts or, IMHO, even volcano dust cloud-driven multi-year famines (as the cloud and the famine and the effects that actually cause most deaths in these cases are anything but "sudden" and often are partly (largely?) attributable to other factors (drought, already depleted/marginal soil conditions. DLinth (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Contradictions
If you compare the list by death toll to the list by event type there are some inconsistencies, the lack of The Black Death on the list according to Death Count being one example (I'm not even convinved that pandemics belong here, but if you're going to have them at least have them consistently). -- Mazz0 (talk) 16:22, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

In the same train of thought as Mazz0 notes above, the Indian Ocean Earthquake and Tsunami is listed in three places, with three different numbers and no sources- seems that it would make a lot more sense it the three numbers at least matched up, but I have no idea which one would be the most accurate. Mradigan (talk) 03:56, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

The Banqiao Dam Failure article lists the death toll as 26,000 people (directly killed). This article gives a much higher value. Which is right? 65.110.28.47 (talk) 19:52, 22 March 2011 (UTC)Rick Smith 2011, March 22.
 * Is a dam failure a natural disaster? Kdammers (talk) 04:18, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It is when primarily caused by a sudden natural event (cyclone); car accidents are generally included for hurricane/cyclone deaths too.DLinth (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

The problem with the Black Death and Spanish flu is still present. We can include pandemics but then either in the over-all list or put a note on the over-all list indicating the omission: not ever-one is going to look down at the various lists and thoughtfully compare he individual lists to the over-all lists. Kdammers (talk) 04:18, 4 March 2012 (UTC)


 * The methodology/definition in the lede for this article limits this page (I agree) to natural disasters (at least mostly, it goes on to say further down) and that only "sudden events" are included (I agree). The latter eliminates famines, epidemics, droughts, etc. DLinth (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Tambora Eruption
Death toll varies by 20,000 persons from one list to another on this same page, which number is correct? --Biturica (talk) 19:36, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Attribution
Material on this page was initially removed from List of wars and disasters by death toll, which was excessively long at 80+kb. Edit history can still be found in the history of that page. BD2412 T 23:07, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

>> Shouldn't the 1938 Yellow River flood belong on that page as it was caused by deliberate acts of men who knew the ramifications of their actions?

Note: One way to shorten this page is to take off some disasters on the list. For example, in the hurricane list, you do not need some storms on the list, like Hurricanes Charley or Fran because they weren't very deadly; you should only include particularly deadly storms, or make a note on the top that says "only ones with at least 500 deaths are included." You can do this to all of the sections to shorten this list. I mean, there are some storms in the hurricane list, for example, with a death toll above 500 or 1000, but there are tens of storms below that, and you should take them off because they were not signifigant for their death toll, or you don't have to go that far down in the list; just include particularly deadly disasters. If you are trying to shorten this list, then take off disasters that aren't that deadly, and if other people say elsewise, then you should make a different article connecting to the deadliest natural disasters list, or make seperate articles like "list of deadliest hurricanes", or "list of deadliest earthquakes and tsunamis", because the list for hurricanes and earthquakes/tsunamis is large and there should be either a limit set for these lists or they should have their own articles, because they take up a lot of the list.


 * Agreed on the '38 event; quite clearcut. Don't believe that was even a rainy year, nor were there any cyclones or other natural causes.  It's been deleted.DLinth (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Merge
I merged this page with List of Deadliest Natural Disasters, as that page was very closely related. Jerr 02:21, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Important Research Initiative!
Yo. In the Epidemic's section there is no mention of the massive numbers of native americans that died as a result of european exploration and the concurrent spread of communicable disease. I've heard estimates that over 10,000,000 people died. This event is certainly relevant to this list, and indeed, highly important to cultural history/archeology. I'm not quite able to edit this right now, but it would be a really cool project. Who's up? - Erik


 * I don't wish to underestimate the devastation, but it wasn't an 'event', it was a process; this isn't the place for it. Heenan73 (talk) 17:22, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree. Ckruschke (talk) 18:33, 8 January 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke
 * Agree. The methodology/definition in the lede for this article limits this page (I agree) to natural disasters (at least mostly, it goes on to say further down) and that only "sudden events" are included (I agree).  The latter eliminates famines, epidemics, droughts, etc. DLinth (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

1201 Earthquake
I can't find any info on this quake. Searching online all I can find are tons of sites that merely state that it happened and killed 1.1M. I get the distinct impression they're just copying each other without performing any fact checking. This USGS site claims the highest fatality earthquake was the one in the 1500s in China --Dgies 20:21, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I removed that reference; if somebody has a good source we can put it back. 128.2.8.137 03:51, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

There is no information about the 2010 Earthquake in Haiti which killed around 316,000 people? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.172.70.96 (talk) 03:08, 3 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The Haitian Earthquake is listed under Earthquakes. Your figure of 316K deaths, although the "official" Haitian number, is widely disputed as reflected by the link. Ckruschke (talk) 17:49, 5 November 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke


 * As Ckruschke says, these death tolls upwards from 200,000 are "under fire." They seem to have been wildly inflated for political reasons by a (barely functioning) government not capable of accurately estimating casualties.  See the Columbia Journalism Review link in the Haiti earthquake article or other sources; the actual total appears to be in the mid 100,000's with a reputable Univ. of Michigan study using 159,000. DLinth (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Plagues
I'm asking because I don't know - how are plagues handled, as far as lists of this type go? They seem IMHO to be natural disasters. I mean, if partially- or wholly-human caused famines are on this list, ought not plagues be included as well? Thoughts, comments? Vedek Wren 19:20, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The methodology/definition in the lede for this article limits this page (I agree) to natural disasters (at least mostly, it goes on to say further down) and that only "sudden events" are included (I agree). The latter eliminates famines, plagues, droughts, etc. DLinth (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Smog
I'm not certain smog qualifies as a natural disaster 146.50.209.116 03:48, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes I agree. The Great Smog of London in the 50's was primarily caused by combusting poor quality coal in households and industries. Therefore it's man-made and would not fall under natural disaster.

1931 Yellow River Flood
Can anyone please expand the article for 1931 Yellow River flood?

Why is this listed as the deadliest natural disaster in history? The sources linked to from the article give the death toll as variously between 145,000 and 400,000. Cripipper (talk) 12:36, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


 * You must have the wrong year. So many Chinese floods.DLinth (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

13 	Newcastle earthquake 	Australia 	1989
Is this some kind of joke? With all my respect to the 13 victims of the Newcastle Earthquake - is this worth mentioning on this list? I have survived a deadlier earthquake myself in 1989, and this one's not even mentioned here. Besides: http://www.emergency-management.net/temp_natur_di.htm

Somebody clean this up, please.

I think ALL earthquakes should be mentioned despite it having such low deaths. As this is a list-article. And that particular low casualty quake can be used to compare with other quakes. So it should stay. I do feel sympathy for you for being in such an undersirable situation of experiencing an earthquake. Also, can someone translate that site? It's not in english, thanks Oidia 08:59, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

If you are going to make a death toll list of natural disasters without placing any limits, by all means search harder and add every natural disaster you find. However, the number of natural disasters like earthqueakes and tsunamis is extensive and a limit should be set. With that set, it is lacking more common information one would expect to see since unknown and smal disisters are also in this list. SML 17:02, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Toba
If anybody has watched the earthshocks program about toba (the one that has aired in the uk on the national geographic channel) it states that the human population at the time was about 60 million and as stated in the article that was reuced to around 1,000 to 10,000 people. I am going to change it to this and anybody who has any questions or anything to say about this about it may feel free to leave something on my talk page. Wiki235 16:15, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

There is already an article on the Toba catastrophe theory. 72.145.5.10 22:25, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The methodology/definition in the lede for this article limits this page (I agree) to natural disasters (at least mostly, it goes on to say further down) and that only "sudden events" are included (I agree). The latter eliminates famines, epidemics, droughts or, IMHO, even Toba-like volcano dust cloud-driven multi-year famines (as the cloud and the famine and the effects that actually cause most deaths in these cases are anything but "sudden" and often are partly (largely?) attributable to other factors (drought, already depleted/marginal soil conditions.)  Toba's effects insofar as fatalities were spread over decades, something all studies support that I've seen.
 * There are as many studies questioning a genetic bottleneck-huge reduction in world population at Toba as there are supporting it. DLinth (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * BTW, your "60 million" for then is a bit off to say the least. See  where 37,000 years ago we had 3 million; in Toba's time (~73,000 years ago) perhaps 2.5 million at most.DLinth (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Contractible diseases
Why aren't contractible diseases listed in the ten most deadly natural disasters? They have by far the largest tolls. Gatoclass 17:43, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

And I think malaria would have caused enough deaths to be that list. Oidia 03:13, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know where Malaria would rank, but I'm certain it would rank higher than "H5N1 strain of Bird Flu" clocking in at 256 deaths. According to the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/malaria/facts.htm) Malaria kills about 1 million people a year. Though I have not found any source that can give any estimate on total deaths. World population and in particular the population of Africa throughout the ages would play a huge part in any such estimate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.106.28 (talk) 05:53, August 27, 2007 (UTC)


 * Gatoclass, I think the reason that contractible isn't listed in the 10 deadliest disasters is because a plague or an epidemic is often a re-occuring event. For example, the death toll from Bubonic Plague is a total from 3 separate major outbreaks in very different times. Earthquakes and floods are often one single occuring event. Whereas the contractible diseases can happen over and over again, and all the death figures over a long period of time are added together, hence why the death toll is so high. Oidia (talk) 03:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I figured it was something like that. All the same, I would have thought individual epidemics could or should be listed amongst the ten most deadly disasters assuming they are big enough. Otherwise, you end up with a distorted view of the worst natural calamities to have befallen people. Gatoclass 16:30, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The methodology/definition in the lede for this article limits this page (I agree) to natural disasters (at least mostly, it goes on to say further down) and that only "sudden events" are included (I agree). The latter eliminates famines, plagues, droughts, etc. DLinth (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

The death toll listed for all three of the major bubonic plague outbreaks is far higher than other estimates on Wikipedia. The page on the Black Death estimates total worldwide casualties at 100,000,000, as did the Plague of Justinian. The Third Pandemic killed far fewer. I have adjusted the figures accordingly. Valkyryn (talk) 16:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Pandemic	Brazilian Flu Virus	Worldwide	1868–1871	35,000,000-90,000,000     I can find no references to this event. If more than 35 million people died, it should be something listed elsewhere than here, right? Dixidesiato (talk) 19:23, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Rapid City Flood of 1972
I don't see any reference to the June 9, 1972 flood in Rapid City, SD, USA that claimed 238 lives. See for reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.91.246.2 (talk) 21:10, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

Smogs
Are smogs not man-made disasters caused by pollution, and therefore shouldnt appear in this list?  Jamie | C 15:09, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I see there was previous discussion about this, but no consencus was reached as to whether or not they should be removed from this article.  Jamie | C 15:11, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Smogs are the result of human activity and should not be listed under natural disasters. I'll have to take a look at this earlier discussion myself. Gatoclass 16:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It seems everyone agrees they are not natural disasters so if no-one objects, I think I might move them to List of accidents and disasters by death toll. Gatoclass 16:41, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Silly lists
It's silly to list small numbers of deaths in natural disasters, just because of recent news reporting. They should be moved to all inclusive lists, but not kept on the "largest list". In Asia and Africa, floods occur almost annually for the last thousand years, and often kill thousands, and aren't reported, recorded, forgotten, yet a small flood killing 11 is reported in the West. This makes no sense. 71.117.93.160 06:12, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I know, that's the downside of it. Oidia (talk) 04:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Hurricane Noel
I'm just wondering what's the policy on stuff like this. I mean, on Wikepedia's own home page (in English), it's saying that 67 people have died from Hurricane Noel, mostly from the Dominican Republic and Haiti. I noticed that some hurricanes are listed here with far fewer death tolls. I'm just wondering if this is something that's been currently overlooked or if the policy is to wait until a final death toll has been announced. 67.42.254.83 01:52, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Infamous Fatal Earthquake not present on List
However extensive the list of deadliest earthquakes is, I stronlgly suggest to add the Earthquake of Valdivia, Chile in 1960. With a magnitude of 9.5 in the Ritcher Scale, this is highest magnitude earthquake in recorded history. Together with its resulting tsunami(s), not just South America, but also Hawaii, and Japan suffered fatalities. The disaster left 5,700 people dead in its quake (USGS source). If earthquakes with death tolls around 1,000 can appear on this list, shouldn't the strongest earthquake in recorded history, with a fatality count of almost 6,000, star in this list too? If you want more information about this legendary disaster, there's a very good page in wiki about it. It's under the name "Great Chilean Earthquake" or the "Valdivian Earthquake". --SML 16:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Disease
What was the greatest SINGLE outbreak of disease ever?
 * The Irish potato blight, maybe?
 * The methodology/definition in the lede for this article limits this page (I agree) to natural disasters (at least mostly, it goes on to say further down) and that only "sudden events" are included (I agree). The latter eliminates famines, plagues, droughts, etc. DLinth (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Avalanches
Here's a list of many avalanche disasters its late and I'm sleepy... if I forget to add it then please someone else do it for me. The data is accurate I checked it out I'm just to tired to add it. http://library.thinkquest.org/C003603/english/avalanches/casestudies.shtml Sersbjutien (talk) 03:53, 8 March 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sersbjutien (talk • contribs) 03:43, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

If landslides are included in avalanches, then there was a terrible one in 2014 in Afghanistan, with 4,000? people killed. It was reported in a recent 'Time' magazine article. Kdammers (talk) 07:07, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

1975 Banqiao Dam failure casualties number is inconsistent with the Wiki artcle
The wiki article says that casualties were 171,000, not 231,000. Ricardo 66.171.167.161 (talk) 07:23, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

List of natural disasters by death toll
The second entry was a tropical depression (see 2004 Pacific typhoon season). I don't think it should be listed as "non-cyclone". – Howard  the   Duck  04:09, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Top 10 deadliest volcanic eruptions
The first entry on the list of top 10 deadliest volcanic eruptions says all the deaths occured in Russia, states the location as Peru. Peru is in South America, and Russia is in Europe/Asia. I don't want to edit this in case there is a valid reason, so could someone please explain this to me? FSX High Flyer (talk) 22:28, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


 * From the article related to the entry:

[The famine in Russia] ''...was probably tied to the eruption of a volcano in Peru named Huaynaputina, which ejected from 16 million to 32 million metric tons of particulates into the atmosphere, notably sulfur dioxide, forming sulfuric acid (see volcanic winter). This prevented sunlight from reaching the Earth's surface, causing massive famine and bitterly cold winters.'' 94.192.52.244 (talk) 16:44, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I've removed it. The link between the eruption and the actual magnitude of the famine on the other side of the world is much too speculative. Even if we accept that the ejecta and rubble flung up into the atmosphere contributed to cold and crop failure in Russia (not all unlikely in terms of climate), there is absolutely no knowing if that eruption was the main cause of the Russian disaster. If it were such a central cause, was Russia the only place affected?? At the time, the Little Ice Age was going for its high point anyway, which produced major famines and cooling all over Europe.


 * Moreover, we don't know the other variables, not in a way that allows them to be isolated. Russia was in a dreary state anyway at just that time - the country had been through several border wars, there had been recurrent crop failures and abandonment of land in the decades before this point, and in a few years, in 1605, there would be all-out civil war. Finally, there are no reliable population figures whatsoever and no real local records that offer a closer look at the famine. It was totally untenable to list that as the "deadliest volcanic disaster ever". /Strausszek (talk) 00:44, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Defining
This article should be defined as 'all natural disasters in Holocene time'. It surely is unfair if you don't count the other mass extinctions as mass events unless they are clearly defined to be out of the time-frame specified. Guanlongwucaii (talk) 06:10, 11 May 2009 (UTC)Guanlongwucaii
 * With plagues, epidemics, famines (even volcano dust cloud-caused) not included in this list since they are not "sudden events", I'm hard pressed to see where a pre-Holocene event could have have found 150,000 humans in one place, much less killed them all (our current cut-off for the top ten list.)DLinth (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

More contradictions
The Spanish Flu death toll and duration varies throughtout the article. The initial summary and the Contractible disease chapter show different numbers.193.179.133.81 (talk) 19:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The methodology/definition in the lede for this article limits this page (I agree) to natural disasters (at least mostly, it goes on to say further down) and that only "sudden events" are included (I agree). The latter eliminates famines, plagues, droughts, etc. DLinth (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Date of 526 Antioch Earthquake and Death Toll
OK, so I have found a list of several different dates for this earthquake. And I realise that different calendar systems exist for dating things, but on Wikipedia ALONE, there are three different dates listed, not to mention two different death tolls. In the interest of consistency, can anybody weigh in as to the actual date? Can anybody find a good source for this anywhere?

List of natural disasters by death toll lists it as 20 May with 250 000 deaths.

526 Antioch earthquake lists it as 31 May, also with 250 000 deaths.

526 lists it as 19 May with 300,000 deaths.

This website lists it as happening on 29 May, which does little to help the matter: http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/526/may_29_526_30347.html

The 526 Antioch earthquake page does list a footnote, but the footnote itself lists a range of dates from 20-29 May and a range of deaths from 250 000 to 300 000, though the majority of the original sources quoted tended toward the 250 000 bit.

I am inclined to change all the pages based on the footnote given in 526 Antioch earthquake, but this would result in a range of dates rather than a single one. How should this be handled?

Raoulduke25 (talk) 13:53, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Earthquake and Volcano tables messed up
The tables for earthquakes and volcanoes are combined into one table, with the headings for both tables at the top of the combined tables. As far as I can tell the code is correct, but I'm no expert. Any thoughts? Bwe1862 (talk) 19:13, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Volcanic Eruptions
The list of deadliest disasters by type lists Mt Vesuvius and the deadliest volcanic eruption. The list of deadliest volcanic eruptions, however, clearly shows that Mt Tambora had the deadliest eruption. Someone really needs to fix all the contradictions in this article. Tad Lincoln (talk) 21:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)