Talk:List of oldest living people by country/Archive 2

New Zealand
Currently we don't have New Zealand listed. Here are a couple of cases:

Esther Moreland, 1 March 1902: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/1758103 Harold Clark, October 1902: http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/694393 SiameseTurtle (talk) 20:28, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Confirmation of Harold Clark reaching 107: http://theyworkforyou.co.nz/debates/2009/oct/21/nz_superannuation_retirement_income_2 SiameseTurtle (talk) 13:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Something I have been concerned about for some time! I have seen quite a few newspaper reports of women reaching 105-107 but almost never claimed to be the oldest in the country (excepting Florence Finch who I don't think became widely known until nearly 113). I suppose I should try theNew Zealand Association of Gerontology or Statistics New Zealand. If that doesn't help then I'll try some media outlets. Cheers, 22:37, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Here another possible candidate: british-born woman Inez Newton, born November 6, 1901: http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/east-bays-courier/706635 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.61.55.109 (talk) 11:38, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Speak of the devil... Ruby Billings 27 April 1900: . The newspaper couldn't confirm if she was the oldest though, but I think it's likely she is. SiameseTurtle (talk) 20:00, 27 April 2009 (UTC)


 * That's almost embarrassing, I hadn't read that far into this morning's paper! Seems a good time to bring their attention to this article and this discussion! I've also been in touch with Statistics NZ (they are legally prevented from releasing ANY information about individuals) and NZ Assoc of Gerontology (apparently they will discuss my request for information at their monthly meeting at the end April). Cheers,  23:56, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I've had no more feedback. I wonder if we should go ahead and add Ruby Billings as I would think it very unlikely there is anyone older. Does GRG keep track of persons approaching 110? Do they even have any contacts in New Zealand (seeing there have only ever been two supercentenarians here as far as I know!)? 23:28, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Too late. Ruby Billings died on 9 May. 06:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Lena Ray, 19/20 January 1902 http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/1386033 http://localhistoryonline.shorelibraries.govt.nz/cgi-bin/PUI?a=d&library=nshore&cl=CL8&cls=Ray%2C%20Lena%20-%20Portraits&e=-nshore--1-0-0 SiameseTurtle (talk) 01:10, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately due to privacy regulations it is extemely unlikely that there will ever be any official recognition of an "oldest person in New Zealand". NZ must be the only country in the "western" world that does not acclaim its oldest citizens! (Talk Contribs) 06:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

One more 106 year old, Madge Dover 31/8/1903. She's apparently friends with Lena Ray who she has known since her teens. http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/north-shore-times/2829961/Young-at-heart-at-106

Dudley Sainsbury 15 June 1903: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU0910/S00002.htm SiameseTurtle (talk) 21:01, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Given the privacy laws currently operating in New Zealand I seriously doubt that there will EVER be a recognised "New Zealand's Oldest Person" unless they make it to supercentenarian status in which case there is a slim possibility that they may get verified and perhaps even publicly identified! (Talk Contribs) 21:15, 1 October 2009 (UTC)


 * There might never be an officially recognised oldest person, but here in the UK our journalists like to invent their own statistics to proclaim their own local citizens as the oldest. Inez Newton should be approaching 108 and Harold Clark should be nearly 107 - the papers might be a bit braver this time around. With Ruby Billings the paper said they knew of no-one older but asked readers to contact them if anyone knew of anyone older. SiameseTurtle (talk) 11:41, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

108th birthday for Marie/Lena Ray, born 19 Janaury 1902: http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/nz-s-oldest-women-celebrate-milestone-3334866 According to the article, Doris Mackintosh was born 18 January 1902 and might now be the oldest. Maybe we'll see some developments in the coming weeks. SiameseTurtle (talk) 18:41, 23 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Here (posted 15 January 2010) http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/central-leader/3230416/Selwyn-resthome-centenarians-are-going-strong shows 3 other New Zealand centenarians:

--Nick Ornstein (talk) 01:58, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Lin Turner (F): 12 January 1904
 * Zika Baker (F): 15 March 1906
 * Herbert James (M): 3 May 1909


 * Florence Harvey was born in New Zealand on June 5, 1906. She lives in Australia. http://www.bayofplentytimes.co.nz/local/news/florence-harvey-has-seen-it-all-in-104-years-of-li/3915319/

--Nick Ornstein (talk) 02:55, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

NEW 2nd oldest living American male
John Babcock became the second oldest living validated male from the U.S. after the passing of Herb Adair. Babcock has been valdiated by the GRG. If you go to http://www.grg.org/>Centenarians>John Babcock, 109. You don't see any other American male listed behind Walter Breuning. Am I right on this? --Nick Ornstein (talk) 14:57, 13 December 2009 (UTC)


 * No, because a) John Babcock is not validated because the GRG does not validate those under 110 and b) unless there's a source that explicitly states/lists him as #2, it's original research, unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position. Cheers, CP 20:55, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

ITS NOT JOHN BABCOCK, JOHN BABCOCK IS A CANADIAN, NOT AN AMERICAN, ITS PROBABLY FRANK BUCKLES. 72.155.225.239 (talk) 00:47, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Since when is the second-place person a matter of concern for the "first-place" lists? And John Babcock is both an American and Canadian...he has probably lived in America longer than 95% of Americans (most people were not born yet when he came to America). Ryoung 122 02:50, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

John Babcock was born in Canada, that makes him Canadian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.155.225.181 (talk) 22:25, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

the second oldest American man is 109 year old Albert Plummer 74.226.167.161 (talk) 20:10, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

It would be very interesting to know more about Mr Plummer. When he was born and where he lives... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.117.122.221 (talk) 12:08, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Albert Plummer - 27 March 1900, 109 74.249.136.134 (talk) 22:00, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * All of which is pointless until there is a claim that he is the oldest man in the United States. (Talk Contribs) 22:19, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * What about when the oldest dies, we should know who the new oldest would be, just to be prepared for when the oldest dies. Longevitydude (talk) 14:40, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I think the chances of there not being an immediate news report of the new oldest man in the US are extremely low, a user automatically putting Albert Plummer or anyone else without such a report would be OR. (Talk Contribs) 22:28, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Austria
109 year old Hermine Nistler is the oldest woman. 65.0.16.122 (talk) 13:27, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

This is true, but Theresia Staffler, born 11/15/1898 should also be mentioned. She was born in the south of the Tyrol, which is now a part of Italy (since 1919). 1898 there was only one Tyrol. The division of the Tyrol was not voluntary and Ms Staffler surely never felt in her whole life to be an Italian citizen. Her mother-tongue is German and this is the official language of Austria too! Venere Pizzinato was also born in the South of Tyrol, but her mother-tongue is Italian. In the category of Italy it should be mentioned: Venere Pizzinato, born 11/23/1896 (born in Austria!). Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.117.122.221 (talk) 11:56, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Staffler passed away in January 2010. --Nick Ornstein (talk) 02:03, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

2nd oldest living American male
Possible candidates are: -Albert Plummer (b. 27 March 1900) -Emanual Mendoz (b. 26 September 1900) -Frank Buckles (b. 1 February 1901)

--Nick Ornstein (talk) 02:03, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

ronnie fairbanks died in 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.249.139.246 (talk) 12:06, 6 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Nick, can you stop updating this, it's unnecessary and doesn't this article. (Talk Contribs) 22:58, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 * No. Its a reminder for me. --Nick Ornstein (talk) 22:15, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * In which case you should use your own page, not here. (Talk Contribs) 22:37, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Proposal
As there are no standards for inclusion in this article (apart from a reliable citation) and some persons claimed to be over the age of 110 are noted as "not internationally verified", I suggest that instead those persons who have been internationally verified (by GRG or Guinness) be highlighted and it be noted that all others are unverified (unless there are organisations which can be accepted as reliable for non-supercentenarians). Cheers, (Talk Contribs) 21:23, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Problems with verifiability on this page
It appears there needs to be a distinction between persons in this article that have an independently verified age and unverified claims.
 * 1) For persons aged 110+ inclusion on either the GRG or Epstein lists would seem to be sufficient for them to be listed here as the oldest person in a particular country (claims for persons older than the oldest verified person should, probably, be ignored). The alternative would be to list them as footnotes which has the potential to become extremely messy
 * 2) Unverified claims for persons 110+ in countries with no verified supercentenarian need to be distinguished as unverified BUT are there some which should not even be listed? It seems obvious that no claim older than the oldest currently verified person should be included (there is a slim chance, as with Maria Copillova, that verification may eventually be established but for the integrity of the article it is probably better to err on the side of caution).
 * 3) Unverified persons under 110 are not independently verified so how should they be treated? Some claims are clearly more likely (to be true or verifiable) than others, should a distinction be made, and on what basis?

Many unverified persons listed here seem to be more a case of "this is the oldest person I/we can find a citation for in this country" than "this person is (not might be but IS) claimed, by a reliable source, to be the oldest person in this country". The former is OR and should not be used here.

My suggestion would be to highlight the different levels of verifiabilty. Green for verified supercentenarians, red for unverified claims above 110. All others left uncoloured. Some claims should probably be removed (eg India) and those that don't meet the criteria in the preceding paragraph. I would like to see countries that have never had a verified supercentenarian highlighted in orange, but I suspect that wouldn't get consensus. so it's probably not worth discussing. (Talk Contribs) 03:25, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

the oldest czech man died
http://aktualne.centrum.cz/domaci/spolecnost/clanek.phtml?id=663070 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.113.139.25 (talk) 08:12, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Oldest Paraguayan woman died in 2009
I know that it would be better if I had created a new topic, but I don't know how to do this. I deleted Patricia Gonzalez as the oldest person in Paraguay because she died unfortunately at the 27.7.2009 according to this article: http://www.puertademergencia.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=571:fallecio-la-mujer-mas-longeva-de-paraguay&catid=46:entrevistas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.213.83.178 (talk) 11:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I've created a new section for this. (Talk Contribs) 19:29, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Finland recordholders
Here (requires login): http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Worlds_Oldest_People/message/14530 shows the oldest people living in Finland per year of birth. The WOP obtained the information from the Finland Statistics website here: http://pxweb2.stat.fi/database/StatFin/vrm/vaerak/vaerak_en.asp. Now, how can we find out who they are so we can add them to the list? --Nick Ornstein (talk) 23:23, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

record holders
Every supercentenarian country recordholder should have a title. There is one for Italy, France, Germany, and yet we don't have it for the United States, and several others.


 * What are you talking about? There is an article, List of supercentenarians from the United States. Anything outside Wikipedia shouldn't be commented on here. Ryoung 122 22:48, 31 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I meant belgium. I just had a brain fart I think. --Nick Ornstein (talk) 21:18, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

France males

 * Nestor Beige
 * born July 6, 1901
 * 2nd oldest french man

Is there an article on him mentioning him as the oldest in France, because he doen't live on an Island.? --Nick Ornstein (talk) 20:16, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Margaret Carter
As she was born in Ireland when it was part of the UK and moved to England before Ireland was an independent country, it's misleading to represent her as the Irish record-holder under the Irish flag. SiameseTurtle (talk) 23:39, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Improving the quality of this article - another attempt
Proposals:
 * 1) Removal of any person with a claimed age of 113 or more. These are not considered reliable enough for inclusion in the List of supercentenarians article and I see no reason they should be allowed to stand here.
 * 2) Removal of any person without a citation claiming they are the oldest person/man/woman in the country UNLESS they are a verified supercentenarian. Inclusion of any person not meeting either criteria is OR
 * 3) Colour coding as follows:

Cheers, (Talk Contribs) 08:47, 12 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Number 1 and Number 3 have been done, thanks Nick! (Talk Contribs) 07:23, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I disagree with point 1. I think it makes more sense to include any claims that do not exceed the age of the oldest woman/man. SiameseTurtle (talk) 20:52, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I've given a valid reason for excluding such persons, are there any valid reasons they should be included? (Talk Contribs) 21:07, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * You mean apart from the fact that we have reliable sources stating that they are the country's oldest? SiameseTurtle (talk) 21:29, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, previous comment written in haste. What I should have said is: why should the standard for inclusion in this article be lower than that for living supercentenarians (given that the aim is to provide a quality article)? (Talk Contribs) 23:03, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think it should be, but that doesn't mean there's only one option. SiameseTurtle (talk) 22:57, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * So what you're saying is that I can add Claude Choules right?
 * I say we don't add people that aren't mentioned in the article as being the "oldest person in the country". If we just throw ones on here that we just assume, it is OR
 * Also, we should add Pending Cases to this article. We use it here: List of supercentenarians from the United States --Nick Ornstein (talk) 20:35, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Ecaterina Gaman
I'm not so sure how reliable the source is that says Ecaterina Gaman is the oldest person in Romania. Firstly if we look at the stats, there are 20 million people in Romania - double that of countries like the Czech Republic and Hungary - and they're hovering around 106-108 (and 106 was rock-bottom for the Czech Republic). To have the oldest as 105 is extremely low at best. Secondly, there is a Romanian man who was 107 this year (a month after Ecaterina Gaman was said to be the oldest) so how can she be the oldest? SiameseTurtle (talk) 13:50, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * You are thinking of Mihaly Marton, born 28 February 1903, he is a male, and his last update was March 2, 2010. The website said that according to a Register that they used, they found that she was the oldest on it. And ofcourse, we can't guess that Marton died when the article was published because it was posted on 1.20.2010, and the one on Marton was published on 3.2.2010. --Nick Ornstein (talk) 21:33, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't be on list
--Nick Ornstein (talk) 20:19, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * 🇱🇻 Aleksandrs Žernoseks, not mentioned oldest man. Last update:
 * 🇳🇱 Cor Geurtz, no update in almost 1.5 years. Last update:
 * 🇳🇴 Helge Fjeldstad, no update in almost 2 years. Last update:
 * Žernoseks should probably be removed (no report on his last birthday either). Fjeldstad is known to be the oldest Nowegian man . Geurtz, I believe, is also known to still be alive. SiameseTurtle (talk) 21:08, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * As far as I know Cor Geurtz is still alive, it's just that there are rarely any updates on his birthday. Maybe it's because he's born on the 4th of May, which is Remembrance Day in the Netherlands and papers would find it inappropriate to spend much time on such festivities. But it happens more often, as far as the Dutch names on the Wiki Oldest Knowing Living People Per Country Project are concerned. As I'm told, there's only been an article on Ms. Zuidema's 102nd birthday, but nothing more since then and she definitely is still alive. As far as there are dubious claims, I think it would be better to remove Hendrikus Zwiers. There's no evidence whatsoever that he's alive nowadays and he's been removed already from the Dutch lists. Guidje (talk) 10:23, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Hilda Kasela
The Estonian Wikipedia is reporting that she died on 1 July 2010, but the discussions imply that the notice was not available online SiameseTurtle (talk) 22:10, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Oldest Irishwoman 108 - Some Verification By Huffington Post Genealogist
For consideration as oldest person both born in Ireland and alive (age 108, born June 2 1902 in Clonusker, Scariff, County Clare):

Margaret McNamara Kelly most likely the oldest Irish person on the planet at 108, per Irish Voice interview: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Oldest-living-Irishwoman-at-108-gives-us-exclusive-interview--100968284.html Huffington Post genealogist sees this (same person who did Obama ancestry) and writes: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/megan-smolenyak-smolenyak/following-the-trail-of-th_b_686259.html Irishcentral.com updates after Huffington Post piece: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/New-details-on-oldest-living-Irishwoman-uncovered-101370654.html

She is my great-aunt. Is Margaret Carter in UK alive - was 108 too? In reference to comment on Margaret Carter on this page -although Ireland was not independent from UK until 1922 that should not discount those born in Ireland before 1922(?)

TY, Kfrenchu (talk) 16:01, 29 August 2010 (UTC)kfrenchu Aug 29, 2010


 * That is awesome about her being your relative. Wish all the best. Hope to see Ireland on top.


 * I personally agree that Margaret Carter should be added. Where she, and Margaret Kelly, were precisely born is now part of Ireland. We should add Carter's name here. Is she the "unidentified" 108-year-old? Several articles state the oldest is a 108-year-old from Ireland. So we can conclude that Kathleen Murray is the oldest IN* Ireland. --Nick Ornstein (talk) 22:36, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks...Yes my great aunt Margaret McNamara Kelly was 108 years old June 2, 1902, now lives in NY state and she seems to be the unidentified entry born in Ireland before Margaret Carter was re-entered here at top of list for Ireland. That should mean that Kathleen Murray is oldest Irishwoman age 107 in Ireland, assuming that is current info. TY- Kfrenchu (talk) 23:14, 26 September 2010 (UTC)KFrenchu Sep 26-2010


 * Thank you. If you didn't know, I added Carter a while back, and your great aunt will soon be added here if she is still alive after Peggy passes. Keep us updated! And by the way, is Mrs. Kelly's daughter in the photos your grand-aunt?


 * I wish all the best to you and your great-aunt. --Nick Ornstein (talk) 00:19, 27 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I hope that I didn't jinx it. Sorry about your great-aunt. --Nick Ornstein (talk) 22:23, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Dean of the French
Philibert Parnasse, born May 6, 1901, passed away October 25, 2010, aged 109 years. With that said, the oldest is currently unknown.


 * Nestor Beige, born July 6, 1901 is a disputed case, in my opinion. The French wikipedia, in which "several" GRG correspondents "take care" of their French (super)centenarians article, acknowledges his claim.
 * Marc Chevalier, born May 13, 1902.

The French correspondent probably added Beige on for a reason. Laurent Toussaint, a French GRG correspondent quoted on Beige. Keep in mind that, by looking at her English, is quite poor, so please don't criticize, thank you. ".... For Nestor Beige, i saw just one time a web page with his name. I remmenber that i not take more attention because it'a appear to me that it was part of a french book, speaking of an old man an call him "nestor beige"". --Nick Ornstein (talk) 20:00, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Indonesia
A number of persons are recognized by the Indonesian government at ages which make them the oldest persons ever. At least one of these may have been debunked to be 102 instead of a 130. Even if they are all bogus, and none actually break the existing Calment record, this is interesting from a verification factors and procedures perspective. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 02:27, 28 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Also would be nice for this table to be sortable by country, max age, and verified or not. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 02:32, 28 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Who had been debunked? --Nick Ornstein (talk) 11:53, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Pending supercentenarian
Isn't every living being a pending supercentenarian? No doubt its extraordinarily unlikely that most humans won't get there, but til we die, we might. David in DC (talk) 12:00, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Using Yahoo groups as a citation
I note that there is a slow edit war over whether postings to Yahoo Groups should be used as a source. Unfortunately message boards such as Yahoo Groups are not considered reliable sources under WP:IRS. I have removed the citations. Please find another source for the information. Blueboar (talk) 15:25, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Oldest German
I don't undestand why me edit of Martin Dressel is reverted. I see no difference to Charlotte Bauch. There is no registration of oldest people in Germany. So GRG can only say there is Charlotte Bauch and she is as old as she is. But they can not say she is oldest German and so they don't do it. Same case with Martin Dressel. We have an newspaper-article which says there is Martin Dressel and he is this old. Why is this reverted? --Dangermouse600 (talk) 13:36, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

St. Kitts and Nevis’ oldest citizen, Florence Baker died June 2, 2011
see Federation’s oldest citizen passes away-Kiwipat (talk) 18:11, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Gender vs. Sex
Gender Sex Perhaps reading these will help. David in DC (talk) 21:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Issue with Faroe Islands
Should the two residents of the Faroe Islands be mentioned on this list? They are listed as "Anonymous." Is this valid/can we confirm there are citizens that old? 50.115.184.189 (talk) 19:11, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Mexico
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/lifestyle/2011/08/31/mexican-woman-celebrates-124th-birthday/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.27.175.194 (talk) 16:22, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Criteria for inclusion
As wikipedia specifically excludes original research cases should only be added to this list if they are:
 * 1) Verified by a reputable independent gerontology organisation (e.g. GRG) and the oldest in their country on that list
 * 2) Specifically identified as the oldest living person/man/woman in a country by a reliable source
 * 3) Do not exceed the age of the current oldest man or woman as there are innumerable such claims and there inclusion here would make this article valueless.

DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 02:26, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I cannot agree with the last point. Take the claims you just deleted as an example. These claims come from the Gerontological Society of China, an official organization in China, which has records of all people older than 100 in China. Every year the organization makes a list called zh:中国十大寿星排行榜 (Top 10 Oldest Living People in China). It's the only official list for Chinese oldest people (also recognized by Xinhua News Agency, the official press agency of China ), so it's totally not true that there are innumerable such claims (Maybe there are innumerable people who claim they are older than the oldest verified man/woman, but most of these claims don't meet the first or second point you mention above) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.93.36.70 (talk) 02:46, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * As with (almost) all other longevity related lists (Oldest people, Oldest people by year of birth, List of oldest people by nation, List of living supercentenarians etc, etc) extreme claims are not included. They belong in articles such as Longevity claims, Incomplete longevity claims, Longevity myths, List of alleged Brazilian supercentenarians. Including extreme claims devalues the integrity of the rest of the article. The claims you have included belong in a separate article such as Living longevity claims by nation. I do not know what criteria the Gerontological Society of China uses to "verify" the claims here but it is not an independent organisation and I seriously doubt it uses the same standards as the GRG and does not meet criteria #1 above. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 08:01, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * If you want to know the details of their research, you can look up many academic articles they have written . Gerontological Society of China is reputable, and it's a member of International Association of Gerontology and Geriatrics. Actually it's the only organization has official records of all people older than 100 in China (47,773 living centenarians as of 2012), and recognized by Chinese government (one of China state leaders attended the award ceremony of 2012 Top 10 Oldest Living People in China). As the article says, "Some of the people listed below may be recognized by their own nation as having attained an age of 110 years or greater, but their lifespan may not yet have been documented and verified sufficiently for them to be denominated a supercentenarian by the standards of modern longevity research." These Chinese claims are such claims, they are recognized by their own nation. If you think only Guinness and GRG count, fine. But you should also delete all other unverified claims in the list too. --114.93.36.70 (talk) 17:30, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * So the entries you have added admittedly fail "modern longevity research"? Then they don't belong here. And, yes, all other unverified supercentenarians (i.e. >110) could be removed as well (even though some are clearly more reliable than others). However, we really need further input from other users to reach a consensus on this. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 21:07, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think we have the ability to say whether or not they fail "modern longevity research", we can only say that they are not recognized by Guinness or GRG (which are the most widely-accepted standards for "modern longevity research"), that's all. If you think we should adopt this high quality standard, I'm ok with deleting all claims not verified by Guinness or GRG if there is consensus. But I don't agree with deleting some claims and keep others when they are all recognized by their own nation but not recognized by Guinness or GRG.--114.93.36.70 (talk) 21:37, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Options for entries to be excluded (unverified means not verified by GRG/Guinness):
 * A: None. Any entry with a reliable source which states specifically that the person is the oldest man or woman in their country can be included.
 * B: All unverified entries over the age of the oldest ever verified man/woman.
 * C: All unverified entries over the age of the oldest living verified man/woman.
 * D: All unverified entries over 113 (the limit for the List of living supercentenarians article. (I believe this was the original scope of this article but no-one has bothered to remove the cases which have recently reached 113).
 * E: All unverified supercentenarians (i.e. over 110).

All uncited claims and claims which do not specifically state that the person is the oldest should be removed immediately.

My preference is at least D, but happy to go with E if that is the consensus. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 02:40, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Both A and E are fine for me, but I don't think setting a specific age makes any sense. If you have a option for 113, I can also suggest options for 112, 114, 115, 120, etc. and we could argue it forever, unless there are some specific reasons for choosing 113 (e.g. some reliable sources also use this threshold). Beside, there is one thing I really don't understand is why you hate the unverified claims from reliable sources, since the article clearly makes differences between unverified and verified claims, so it won't mislead anyone. If you think the differences are still not clear enough, you can just divide it to two sections, one called "verified national records" and the other called "unverified national records".--114.93.36.70 (talk) 17:55, 5 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Is anyone else interested in contributing to this discussion??? DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 21:50, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Requirements for inclusion
I have just removed the entry for oldest male in Spain because:
 * 1) The primary reference is a blog, which is not a reliable source for wiki purposes.
 * 2) One of the sources the blog cites is wiki and wiki cannot be used as a source for itself (even in another language).
 * 3) The other source quoted is 8 years old and merely mentions that he became a centenarian.

Note that trawling through the internet to find the oldest people in a country and then including the oldest here is WP:OR and is not acceptable. See also the discussion above regarding extreme claims. Cheers, DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 21:17, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Come on. Basicly you are right, but you delete this man with a link and not these people without:
 * Vi Robbins, Australia - Antonia Kubesch and Leopold Engleitner (wiki-link), Austria - Oscar Coulembier, Belgium - Bernhard Prott, Germany
 * Margaret Crisham, Ireland - Carmelina Augusta Delgado, Portugal - Djafar Behbahanian (born in Iran) and Alice Roffler-Waldmeier, Switzerland.
 * I could say: Who are you to know better what goes or not. But I won't. And not all blogs are unreliable. CGT dk (talk) 22:57, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I've now removed all entries without a citation (I encouraged other users to do this some time ago but was ignored). When I have time I will go through all the other citations to see if they specifically mention the person is the oldest and remove those which don't. I'll also remove any with no update in over a year. And no matter how reliable a blog may be, they are ALL deemed unreliable as far as wiki is concerned. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 23:26, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Now I will say who are you to judge. I am taking this work very serious and are not sure of if you r ditto are. I will now add a Pending case from Portugal if you don't mind. And then it would be nice if you stop destroying this subject project. CGT dk (talk) 00:27, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * A perfect addition. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 00:52, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Gustav Gerneth, 108, oldest German male
Hello everyone,

I don't know how to handle the oldest living man of Germany. His Name is Gusvat Gerneth and he was born Ocotber 15, 1905. The following newspaper article was published October 17, 2013 in consequence of his 108th birthday. Unfortunately the articel doesn't name his date of birth. BUT: "Gustav Gerneth, der am Dienstag seinen 108.! Geburtstag gefeiert hat" means that he just celebrated his 108th birthday on tuesday. So this was October, 15 2013 because the date of publition was on thursday, October 17, 2013.

Maybe it is enough as a logical conclusion of an reliable source. In addition his birth date is know by supercentenarians-interested Germans.

Here the dates again:

Gustav Gerneth Ocotber 15, 1905 Germany (Havelberg, Saxony Anhalt)

and the link: http://archive.is/5Y0Y8 (October, 17 2013) — Preceding unsigned comment added by GreatGreen (talk • contribs) 11:35, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Unless there is a source which mentions specifically that he is the oldest German man, or he is verified by an appropriate organisation such as the GRG and is the oldest German man whose age is verified, then he cannot be included. Listing someone just because it is the oldest person a user knows of violates WP:OR. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 18:59, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

I found a reliable source (Max-Planck-Institut) claiming Gustav Gerneth as Germanys oldest living man in addition to Gertrud Henze as Germanys oldest living woman: "Die älteste lebende Deutsche Gertrud Henze stammt aus Göttingen (111 Jahre, 315 Tage), der älteste lebende Deutsche ist Gustav Gerneth (108 Jahre, vier Tage). Er lebt in Havelberg (Sachsen-Anhalt)". It was published in the evening of Ocotber 18, 2013 (thats why they wrote "108 years and 4 days" - as part of tomorrow; also an advice to his date of birth Ocotber 15, 1905.

The source: http://www.express.de/koeln/neues-max-planck-institut-das-koelner-labor-des-ewigen-lebens,2856,24679940.html

Hope he could be included now?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by GreatGreen (talk • contribs) 21:10, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Although that source is adequate as far as stating that he is the oldest German man, neither that source or the one above gives his exact date of birth, and I could find no reliable source that does. Therefore he should not be included until there is such a source. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 10:22, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

OR, again
Using a link to a website which is merely a search for people in a country is insufficient for referencing that a person is the oldest in that country. That is clearly OR. The citation must state specifically that such a person is the oldest in the country (with the exception of verified supercentenarians as I have outlined above). DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 18:48, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure - If you were interested you could search for a birth year or just "1" in the "Födelsedatum/pnr:" field (http://www.ratsit.se/BC/SearchPerson.aspx) and hit "Sök". You get a list of all living swedes (16+) in age order. The two oldest Saro Dursan and Jwani Yaukhan are disputed. Ellen Vestling is then the oldest living person in Sweden. Skål! CGT dk (talk) 17:23, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

What is appropriately encyclopedic content for longevity related biographies
There is currently a discussion about what constitutes encyclopedia content on longevity related biographies at Talk:Gertrude Weaver please comment. I am One of Many (talk) 18:57, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Accessibility of tables
This article relies too heavily upon the use of color to convey information which is not in alignment with the Accessibility guidelines. Please see: Talk:List_of_supercentenarians_from_the_United_States as well as Talk:List_of_supercentenarians_who_died_in_2014. Thank you. -- dsprc   [talk]  11:57, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:57, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Philippe Vocanson, 110?
I do not see any 110th birthday reports for Philippe Vocanson. How do we know he made it? Deaths in 2013 (talk) 03:50, 22 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Have some patience. He and his family may want a bit of privacy. We are not entitled to updates on their birthday. CommanderLinx (talk) 06:21, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
 * It's irrelevant for this article. If it has been stated that he is the oldest in France then he gets included in this article until either he dies, the claim is not updated for over a year or someone else is identified as being older. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 07:05, 22 October 2014 (UTC)