Talk:List of oldest living state leaders/Archive 8

1935 births
I appreciate it may be a little too soon for this, but I've put together the following list of 1935 births, who will start to be eligible for inclusion in the article within a few months. To make sure I found as many as possible, I went through the articles on heads of state and heads of government for each state in turn. Of course I may nonetheless have missed some, so additions would be welcome. Any sources that can be found that's newer or better is also welcome. 2A02:8012:227B:0:DDF6:42C0:DAA6:FD03 (talk) 12:50, 29 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I did some looking up of this as well, and I'll add the few missing I've found. And my list has sources, maybe I'll add them as well. TheCorriynial (talk) 15:57, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for adding sources and Sharavyn Gungaadorj, who I missed. I've removed Sir John Swan though as Bermuda isn't an sovereign state, but a British Overseas Territory. On a similar basis, I looked again at whether Young Vivian of Niue should be included. Political status of the Cook Islands and Niue seems quite clear that the island's status is akin to the Compact of Free Association states. 2A02:8012:227B:0:DDF6:42C0:DAA6:FD03 (talk) 17:00, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * In relation to Mahmoud Abbas, Palestine has been recognised by the UN since 2012, but his tenure goes back before that, so I was unsure precisely what description to use for him and whether/in what way the shift in status should be indicated in the table. That's why I put 'Unclear staus?' with a question mark - I was unclear about his specific title(s) as leader over time.
 * I was similarly unsure about the Dalai Lama. He will almost certainly be in the 'Unclear status' table, but what to describe him as, and over what time period? I think what I've put in the table is simple and accurate, but it may not be. 2A02:8012:227B:0:8875:5FA5:E124:5FEB (talk) 14:12, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
 * José Mujica is from Uruguay, not from Paraguay Pindrice (talk) 22:55, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The claim of the Palestinian Territories (the only legal entity that exists under the Oslo Accords) to legal statehood is not recognised by most of the Big Five in the UN (UK, USA, France) and observer status at the UN is not actual membership. Those factors should weigh the most when considering where Abbas should go. 180.150.38.126 (talk) 14:52, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Postponing archive Star Garnet (talk) 07:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Exact same dates of birth
Rather than start another edit war, here is my rationale for alphabetical by country name rather than by the oldest living state leaders' surname: alphabetical by country name was the consensus (arbitrarily imposed by the list creator?) tie-breaker in the list article List of current state leaders by date of assumption of office‎, that I decided to import into this list article. If this is not the consensus for this list article, then can we establish another consensus?– Jwkozak91 (talk) 02:20, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * We should follow the tie-breaker criteria of the other related page. GoodDay (talk) 03:26, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * This is a list of leaders; their country, date of assumption, etc. are secondary details. Alphabetical by name is the most logical tiebreaker to me. Star Garnet (talk) 04:34, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 01:11, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, I didn't even consider it would be alphabetical by country. That explains why the 2 visible ties are not in the same order by surname. I think alphabetical by name makes more sense though since that's how most lists of people break ties. Emk9 (talk) 20:09, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Unproven possibilities and future additions
There is a list of all leaders for which there is not a death date on Rulers.org (at least before one month), and I sorted them in few categories (U stands for "unproven", A for "alive"):


 * "None of the Soviet Republic Party Secretaries in this table were in power when their republics were recognized as independent states by other United Nations member states, or by the Commission of the European Economic Community, which should be the criterion for their inclusion in the main article table. Vaino Väljas is a special case, as he was still Party Chairman on August 20, 1991 (the day Estonia restored its independence); however, the Popular Front of Estonia had won the ESSR's republic elections on March 18, 1990, and were directing the government in Tallinn, not the republic's Communist Party." – Jwkozak91 (talk) 05:57, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

1. Good possibility of being alive (1926-1929, 1930 and later to be done): (U=3, A=0)


 * Ambrose Patrick Genda, Sierra Leone, head of government, 1927, somebody with the same name died in London in 2001 (and in "Reinventing the Colonial State: Constitutionalism, One-party Rule, and Civil" (p. 138), it is claimed that he had lived in London) and German wiki claimed he died in 2015
 * Asked about him on German Wiki, he died in 2002, the user told me that the source is "The Paradoxes of History and Memory in Post-Colonial Sierra Leone". I still won't cross him, as I can't preview the book, but I am 99% sure he is not alive anymore StjepanHR (talk) 15:11, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree he's very likely deceased, though I notice that the page reference given in the German article (p679) can't be right because the publisher only lists the book as having 332 pages! Curiously, Genda doesn't appear on List of heads of state of Sierra Leone at all - I don't know why, as others in 'office' for as little as a couple of days do appear. 217.155.59.206 (talk) 12:16, 15 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Ri Kun-mo, North Korea, prime minister, 1926, published in 2004, chronology through 2001, now disputed. Died in 2001 according to Alexandre Mansourov.


 * Emmanuel Bodjollé, Togo, committee, 1928
 * "Historical Dictionary of Togo" (ed. 2021) refers to him as "retired". Is it enough to put him on the list? StjepanHR (talk) 03:38, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

– Adding to prevent further archiving – Jwkozak91 (talk) 08:24, 1 May 2023 (UTC)


 * - and again, bot closed it TheCorriynial (talk) 15:27, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Postponing archive Star Garnet (talk) 07:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

1934 births
I think this concept of a table is a good one.

As of 27 December 2021, there are 3 people left to add to the hidden 5 in the main article table. I could only find these people going through 1934 (again, feel free to add others or remove those who are deceased):

– Jwkozak91 (talk) 08:06, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Maybe Waldo Bernal Pereira should be added to the main article (unknown birth with unclear status) StjepanHR (talk) 18:17, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I put Bernal Pereira in an unknown birth with unclear status table; it was deleted by another user.– Jwkozak91 (talk) 21:24, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Any recent media coverage? Star Garnet (talk) 22:04, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't understand Spanish, but from this:, with the use of Google translate, it seems he was living on a farm in 2018. StjepanHR (talk) 23:22, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

- Adding to prevent further archiving TheCorriynial (talk) 20:34, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * And again. DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 08:08, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

– And again.– Jwkozak91 (talk) 06:39, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Postponing archive Star Garnet (talk) 07:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

High Representative
I notice that List of current state leaders by date of assumption of office includes the incumbent High Representative for Bosnia and Herzegovina. Looking at the article on the office, inclusion seems to be based on the fact that it's powers are wide-ranging and analogous to a viceroy. On that basis, would we want to include previous occupant Christian Schwarz-Schilling (born 1930) in the unclear status list here?. 217.155.59.206 (talk) 11:12, 21 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Maybe, but didn't Bosnia and Herzegovina have its own president? EDIT: I've since looked at Bosnia and Herzegovina, and it does mention the High Representative as in government infobox, above the President, so it would imply high importance or main co-leader. TheCorriynial (talk) 15:44, 21 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I thought their collective presidency was the highest position. GoodDay (talk) 17:35, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I would have said the same until I saw it included in the other list article and read a bit more; it seems to have powers over and above the presidency. A unique case certainly. I'm not necessarily suggesting Schwarz-Schilling goes in the main list, but the 'unclear status' one with a footnote. 217.155.59.206 (talk) 12:18, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I do believe we have moved people from unclear to main list when we were sure. TheCorriynial (talk) 00:03, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Sir James Patrick Ivan Hennessy
Looking at Belize, this gentlemen was a Governor and Commander-in-Chief of British Honduras, now known as Belize before independence in 1981. It seems like this role is similar to a GG, and he is still alive within our sources length of time. Is it possible he needs added? Source, by the way: TheCorriynial (talk) 13:33, 6 February 2024 (UTC) EDIT: Sir James Patrick Ivan Hennessy has died, so wouldn't be in the list regardless now.
 * No, because British Honduras wasn't a sovereign state. GoodDay (talk) 16:22, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Unknown birth dates
Regular editors of this article may wish to contribute to this discussion: Talk:Lists of state leaders by age. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 01:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

1934 births
I think this concept of a table is a good one.

As of 27 December 2021, there are 3 people left to add to the hidden 5 in the main article table. I could only find these people going through 1934 (again, feel free to add others or remove those who are deceased):

– Jwkozak91 (talk) 08:06, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Maybe Waldo Bernal Pereira should be added to the main article (unknown birth with unclear status) StjepanHR (talk) 18:17, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I put Bernal Pereira in an unknown birth with unclear status table; it was deleted by another user.– Jwkozak91 (talk) 21:24, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Any recent media coverage? Star Garnet (talk) 22:04, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't understand Spanish, but from this:, with the use of Google translate, it seems he was living on a farm in 2018. StjepanHR (talk) 23:22, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

- Adding to prevent further archiving TheCorriynial (talk) 20:34, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * And again. DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 08:08, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

– And again.– Jwkozak91 (talk) 06:39, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Postponing archive Star Garnet (talk) 07:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Re-postponing archive TheCorriynial (talk) 23:29, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * One more leader remains, then we move into 1935. Now, into 1935. TheCorriynial (talk) 18:13, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

No report about 100. birthday
I know that you have the policy to include leaders in this list if we have a prove for them to be alive in the last 10 years. But the 100. birthday is such are rare and important event that we shouldn't include a former leader in this list, who should be older than 100 years and we don't have a report for this birthday. (Neverless sometimes it takes some days for the report, but if there wasn't a report in the week after the birthday don't count on a later report.) César Yanes Urías is listed as older then 103 years, but the last report was when he was 98 years old. I realy doubt that he's alive because we didn't had a report for 100., 101., 102. and 103. birthday. Do you realy want to let him on the list until october 2028 with an given age of 108? That would make us look ridiculous - maybe we look like since we he's listed with 100 years. Maybe next years we would have the same problem with Mohammad Hasan Sharq, who would be 100. years old in July 2025. But the last report about him was when he was 91! So if there is no report about his 100. next year, we should move him from the list. Btw.: In four days the 10-years-window will be closed for Édouard Frank. So don't forget to move him from the list. As I told you before: 10 years is a very big window... 2003:E9:2710:68:1803:A872:E4F7:AC74 (talk) 10:27, 2 March 2024 (UTC)


 * There is a photo of César Yanes Urías when he was 100 in 2021, see this: TheCorriynial (talk) 12:15, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Sources added. Thanks. But I was the last link from 2018 and not 2021? Is there also a later sources vor Sharq? If not we should talk about that.2003:E9:2710:68:1803:A872:E4F7:AC74 (talk) 14:43, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Sharq was interviewed in January 2021.--95.244.120.237 (talk) 18:15, 2 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Please add new sources. 2003:E9:2710:7D:1D48:E9F2:1A7A:3ABD (talk) 17:44, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oldest living
you're making a mess of the page. GoodDay (talk) 22:46, 20 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Good day to you too.
 * But I don't see any mess. All are now in order. Andro611 (talk) 22:58, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
 * My apologies. I seem to have missed two ordinals. I have fixed them now. Andro611 (talk) 23:03, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Isn't the reason why we had current #1 in unclear was the fact his term overlapped a period of transition between a Soviet state? TheCorriynial (talk) 23:25, 20 February 2024 (UTC)


 * This has been discussed multiple times previously, without any apparent consensus. As per WP:BRD the page should not be altered until there is consensus to do so. DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 01:54, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I see no counter-argument being presented each time. You said yourself that recognition is a criteria for inclusion, yet Taiwan (ROC) is included even though fewer than 20 countries recognized it at the time and was not a part of the UN.
 * Each time the discussion goes with one editor voicing opposition to which the other responds with a very detailed breakdown and explanation and gets no response. Andro611 (talk) 12:31, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes that might be true, but when Mr. Manolic became Croatia's Prime Minister the Croatian constitution was still not in effect, so technically he is not regarded as a state leader of a sovereign state and as for The Republic of China (Taiwan, ROC) it was a recognized state up to this date. 2001:FD8:1720:F19D:304C:F401:D834:196C (talk) 07:03, 8 March 2024 (UTC)