Talk:List of people from Goa/Archive 1

Philistine Triumphalism
The list of "notable Goans" seems to be only those who have worked for India! In recorded Goan history since 1510, these constitute a miniscule minority of notable Goans, but it is they who dominate. It is as if there were no "notable Goans" pre-1961 Indian occupation.

It is also interesting that among industrialists, the Menezes family of the CMM group and the owners of O Heraldo are not mentioned.

WikiSceptic 15:59, 11 November 2005 (UTC)


 * So what stops you from adding deserving candidates? --fredericknoronha 20:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * In addition to my comment above, I'd like to add that the dominance on this list of recent achievers is simply because they are "recent", and relatively more fresh in mind. I do accept that "achievers" need to go back in time, to all time (within the frame of human memory). The problem with achievers of the past is they have been written about, sometimes, in a language or script not as widely accessibly today as English. Please feel free to add any deserving candidate to this list, provided they are deserving, that is. Wikipedia gives you that freedom! I will try to contribute to your endeavour on this. --fredericknoronha 08:20, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Undeserving?
Appears that some visitors to this page are adding their names here. My view is that the candidates below may be considered for deletion:


 * 1) DERICK PHILIP PINTO of OLAULIM, Pomburpa, Bardez was awarded the V B Desai Gold Medal for standing first in both the years 1995 & 96 in Commercial Law at the Master of Laws(LLM)in the Bombay University.
 * 2) [Gaspar Almeida]
 * 3) Antonio Francisco Dias aka Poristhar was in charge of the Anjediv Island for 16 years immediately preceding Goa liberation. Died at 95 at his native in Galgibaga on March 29, 2006.
 * 4) Mr. Syed Mohammad Sadique Retd. Physics Lecturer in Chowgule College presently residing in Housing Board, was sent to Italy by the Government of India. --fredericknoronha 20:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, I'm unsure of: Samrat Borkar,prolific writer, 9 plays,6 one-acts,80 short stories,25 humour articles,200 film articles. Dempo (details needed of this family and its members) Commodore Dias, from Ambora, Salsete Goa,distinguished in the Indian Navy (details needed)
 * 1) Terekholvir Alfred Alfonso: Led a group of satyagrahis to the Terekhol fort, and -- as Tony Martin puts it -- brushed aside the nozzle of Portuguese guns like irritating mosquitoes and unfurled the National tricolour on the fort. (Seems inaptly explained... quoting a writer in the middle of the link)

Overall, this page badly needs a clean up and extension (of deserving candidates). --fredericknoronha 21:04, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe people like Terekholvir Alfred Alfonso belong to a wider page dealing with Freedom fighters in Goa. --fredericknoronha 08:23, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Rename?
I suggest renaming this article to "Prominent Goans", "Famous Goans" or "List of Prominent People from Goa". "List of people from Goa " looks a little too, um, inviting to the riff-raff. --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 07:50, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Dr. Jose Pereira
Dr. Jose Pereira (b.1931) who is an eminent writer, orator, historian, musicologist, theologist and a naturalist  has been inadvertently Wiki inter-linked with “Jose Pereira”, a Portuguese goalkeeper.

--Dommartin99 (talk) 07:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Criteria?
There doesn't seem to be a criteria for including a persons name in this list. - Are we arguing over the inclusion of Bruno Coutinho? The man was captain of the Indian football team, and has won the Arjuna Award. Surely that is enough of an honour to be listed of a list of Goans? 29/04/2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Georgiebest7 (talk • contribs) 06:16, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Instead of including every sportsman include only those who have won at least one nternational event(singluarly or as a team). Leander Paes is ok anyday but Bruno Coutinho? At any given time the Indian Football team has at least 3 Goans, Hockey at least 1 . we cant include all!
 * diplomats: Every single Goan in IFS could qualify include only those who have been in crucial positions or critical situations.
 * Non-Goans : I dont really think that all eminent people of Goan Ancestry should be added here . One entry I removed was Ronnie Mendonca who hails from Canara not Goa. --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 11:10, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * What constitutes as Goan? I am a bit unsure about the validity of people like Keith Vaz and Leander Paes even for this list (to name just a couple). Both men can be classified as being of Goan origin, but neither one of them was born in Goa nor has lived in Goa for any great extent of time. Can we justify them being in this list? --User:Georgiebest7 26 April 2009 —Preceding undated comment added 06:57, 26 April 2009 (UTC).


 * I have removed a lot of names and pruned some of the content, which I thought was not unnecessary. I don't mind if somebody reverts it but advise against impulsiveness. --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 12:16, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Removed Mervyn Fernandes, if I remmeber correctly he is Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 05:28, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

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my edits


 * Traitrist Francis De Tuem like late William de curtorim in their acts opposed the ruling politicians, where as Roseferns  M. Boyer, C. Alvares and Jacint Vaz were pure entertainers.

104.207.219.150 (talk) 15:49, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Roqui Santan 'father of Goan Democracy' organised 3 days Satyagraha to hold December 1963 first election even though Goa did not belong to India, strengthening separate  identity for Goa.

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Hello fellow Wikipedians, I have added and edited RoquiSantan was elected twice as member of the Goa Legislative Assembly from this home constituency and was the recipient of prestigious 'Tambra Patra National Award' at the hands of PM Indira Gandhi for his outstanding role in Goa's freedom. Decan.reporter (talk) 15:57, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

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Hello fellow Wikipedians,

This is the press release by Kadamba Coterie after their sentiments were hurt in Velliapura in 2013. Velim, 11 kilometers from Margao, South Goa. Dec. 21st 2013. Mr.Venkatesha A. Upadhiaya today submitted a memorandum to the President of India Mr.Pranab Mukherjee, Prime Minister Mr.Manmohan Singh and Mr. Pravin Srivastava of Archeological Survey of India ASI, demanded to immediately acquire and save the 12th century, Kadamba Jayakeshi Southern Capital Velimpura site which is also the cremation ground of the last Ruler of Hangal located in present day Velim, South Goa a place of National Interest? from the possession of Mrs Ana Emerita, widow of a great Goan, late Roqiue Santana charging her for constructing on the scared grounds, denying access by locking the compound gates and playing regional card with the pilgrims from the neighboring villages of Karnataka who visit Velim once a year, a centuries old practice and as part of the Banavasi festival celebrations to pay their respect to the 1368AD Velimpura cremation ground of Purandarai-Deva the ruler of Hangal.

Warning the locals who were present here today not to be silent spectators to injustice done to the glorious historical past Mr. Upadhiaya a native of Belgaum lamented while reacting to regionalism that prior to his death in 2007 Roqiue Santana like his father in Portuguese colonial times always gave a warm welcome and supply of drinking water as a gesture of respect to the Kannada visitors at the site. Roqiue Santana popularly known as Father of Goa’s Democracy was the local elected representative to liberated Goa legislative Assembly. No doubt this family is Goan, like thousands of Goans they are of Deccan origin too?. Mr. Upadhiaya said.

Earlier, a man who walked up behind the secured gates calling himself the security for the Roqiue Santana family charged last years pilgrims of criminal mischief, theft and robbery as important antiques went missing following last Dec. pilgrims visit and said that the family has moved out of this country and ordered the driver of the tour bus to get going. Leading the pilgrims Mr. Upadhiaya? 82, denied? the allegation here today in Velim saying? that we are always protective of the family and do respect their privacy and recollected his family?s ancestors ties as Sarva-Karyakartas meaning chief secretary, a hereditary appointment up to the time when Governor of Madras presidency George Harris under Lord Dalhousie administration confiscated the Haliyal Timber and Construction Lime Co. goods of Roqiue Santan’s greatgrand father in Nov of 1855. Mr. Upadhiaya held that most of the pilgrims are the descendants of the? family?s Haliyal compound work force. Historians hold that Haliyal yard was basically? Goa? ruling Reigns Armoury and is today converted into Haliyal Bus Terminal. In his memorandum he urged Archeological? Survey Of India (ASI) to atleast save this Velim landmark for future generations.

According to this famous historical source held sacred by Hangal Coterie, Purandarai ruler of Hangal and family on the eve of his fall in 1347 secretly traveled over night to joined his daughter who herself took shelter in safer Jayakeshi Velimpura compound in 1345 when her husband was assassinated by Mohammedans at present day Chandor. A second wall stone Kannada inscription dated 1396 in the Velim compound marks the death and cremation of? Veenomai-Devi beauty and wife of? Suriya-Deva, slain Sovereign at Chandrapur palace, daughter of Late Purandaraideva, Kadambarasa of Hangal confirms this history. It can be infered from the Velim inscription that Goa Kadamba Suriya-Deva son of Beera, was married to the nearby royal bride who was his distance cousin. Mr. Upadhiaya said. Before adopting Portuguese Catholicism

Mr. Upadhiaya said. Before adopting Portuguese Catholicism this Velimpura family’s ancestors had given up worship in their temples for fear of Mohammedan trap, reinvented themselves as Haliyal timber lords where converted by Orthodox Nasranis of Malabar in early1400s.Some of the Syrian origin worship items and anointing oil alabastrons saved by Upadhiaya's great grand father and moved to Belgaum after the 1855 British confiscation of Haliyal compound is convincing evidence. Further, quoting Kannada stone inscriptions on Konkan sea pirate Timu 'enemy turned friend' recovered from present day Haliyal Bus stand tell that Timu in those crucial years provided protection for their ancestors in return for timber for his shipbuilding needs had exploited this converts fear issue and used Portuguese forces to drive Mohammedans away and enforced his Timu administration in Goa in 1510. The Portuguese? in a while overpowered Timu and colonized Goa. It is a well known historical conclusion that this Christian connection attracted early Jesuits including Francis Xavier to visit Velliapura first for refreshment before traveling inland for conversions, he added.

Prof. Nilkanth Sah Paddaam in this press release said here today that a six member delegation headed by Mr. Upadhiaya is leaving for New Delhi tomorrow to follow up with his memorandum. Dec/2013 Deccan Herald, Press Release/Nilkanth Sah Paddaam, Belgaum. Decan.reporter (talk) 15:57, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

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Hello fellow Wikipedians, when you hit/click the reference please scroll down to this title:- ‘Roque Santana anniversary observed ‘. PANJIM, 11th Jun 2013: The 51st anniversary of the ‘Father of Goan Democracy’ late Roque Santana Fernandes who went on an indefinite hunger strike in Margao in 1962 which resulted in elections being declared for the first time in Goa in December 1963 was observed in Velim, Monday.

The late Roque Santana resorted to a fast unto death demanding that elected members and not appointed ones should represent Goa in Parliament, with the result that Gopal Handoo, adviser to then Lt Governor of Goa met him at the instance of then prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru. He gave up the strike, met Nehru and it was agreed to hold elections for the first time in Goa in 1963. It is for the democratic fight that he was hailed as the `Father of Goan Democracy.’

Late Roque Santana was subsequently elected to Goa Assembly twice in 1967 and 1971 and was awarded Tambra Patra for his contribution for Goa’s freedom. Decan.reporter (talk) 15:57, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquino_de_Bragan%C3%A7a is not on the list
95.146.192.228 (talk) 21:57, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

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Clarification
@Rejoy2003 I noticed that you reverted my edit with the following explanation, "Souza is known for being a face of Modern Architecture in India, no need of his relation with"UNESCO" published by a questionable source." Could you please clarify why the reference I added is considered questionable ( https :// timesofindia . indiatimes . com / city / goa/For-this-architect-environment - comes - first/articleshow/54271329.cms )? I was attempting to utilize references from the individual's article itself instead of relying on a university website. My intention was to add references to all the individuals on this page who currently lack them, following the same approach you used. LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 01:34, 9 November 2023 (UTC)


 * See WP:RSP, there has been a discussion about the TOI news publication. "My intention was to add references to all the individuals on this page who currently lack them, following the same approach you used.", if that was your intention, you wouldn't have deleted most of the entries. It took me quite a few days to add the references. Your work on Wikipedia seems to be rather of a WP: Deletionist, however we are completely the opposite of it. If you're willing to help, try to remove less but add more. Of course, this doesn't limit to superficial content. I'll go through the Bruno Souza (architect) content removal as well, as you have done recently. Rejoy2003(talk) 03:00, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I would be more than willing to collaborate with you, especially since I recognize that I am still relatively inexperienced. As I mentioned in my edit summary, my initial action was to remove all content that lacked references. However, your recent edits have made me realize the importance of making an effort to find and include proper references.
 * I examined the page you provided above (Reliable sources/Perennial sources). Can you explain what makes the TOI reference unsuitable in this context? The reference I removed used more elaborate language, "illustrious architectural career" and "belonged to a generation of architects that sought to rediscover what Modern architecture meant for India." I felt the TOI article used more factual language. LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 02:42, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I would had immediately warned you for removing all of that content, but I let it slide since you are a newbie editor. And also the fact that no one really cared much to add references this article for years together. Regarding The Times of India, I'm not sure how well you've gone through the WP:RSP, but it mentions The Times of India is considered to have a reliability between no consensus and generally unreliable.. There are like 4 WP:RFC regarding TOI where you can read and understand why the content they write are not always reliable. I haven't read it all, but it seems like they've sold their journalistic souls to the highest bidders, if that makes sense. Rejoy2003(talk) 03:11, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Rejoy2003 Once again, I appreciate your patience. If I grasp your point correctly, is the concern with the TOI that their content is sponsored?
 * I read the section you highlighted in green above, which constitutes the first sentence in the section of WP:TOI, but the subsequent part of the paragraph specifies that content related to the government is typically unreliable. The article I referenced actually incorporates his criticism of the government.
 * "I have refused a lot of projects that go against Goan tradition and Goan environment. The government should strictly abide by rules and set an example of how to respect heritage and the environment. But sadly, it is the greatest violater of rules and laws," says Souza.
 * Would it not be peculiar if a pro-government source covered someone with anti-government sentiments?
 * Nevertheless, let me explore what the other references have to say and then revisit the matter. LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 03:10, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Look I don't have an answer for why this or why that or not this and not that, I'm explaining you the second time here. There's a WP:RFC that took place on 4-5 times regarding TOI and their pro-government bias and what not. We editors should always abide by the Wikipedia policies as in what states in WP:RSP, that TOI is a generally not-so-reliable source. Would it not be peculiar if a pro-government source covered someone with anti-government sentiments?, you may want to read the latest WP:RFC that took place two years ago . If you have further questions and debates, I'll recommend to start a RFC and have experienced editors have their say. Rejoy2003(talk) 04:05, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Google Scholar only yields 8 results for Bruno Souza (https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C1&q=%22bruno+dias+souza%22&btnG=) none of which appear to be strong references. If we exclude the TOI reference from his article, I worry there will be insufficient content for the article to stand independently. LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 03:34, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Look don't try to misunderstand what I'm trying to interpret. I never said or have implied to never use TOI as a source in articles regarding a subject (specifically not a list). In "Lists articles" we write a short description and use only a single reference, my take is that, instead of using a "not-so-reliable" source, why not a reliable, secondary or independent source? If you're talking about Bruno Souza (architect) page, there's absolutely no need of an extreme step as in remove all the TOI references as long as there are secondary sources that support their statment. Rejoy2003(talk) 03:56, 11 November 2023 (UTC)