Talk:List of people from Mississippi

Future expansion of page
In a recent edit I added 500+ entries to this list, doubling the list's size. My original intention before even gathering the new names was to eventually include every existing page that fit within the list's scope. However, the current list now contains 1,002 entries and a search shows the potential for nearly 7,000 more names! Obviously this is far too many names for a single page. The page is already at 99 kilobytes and is at the moment separated as follows—  1 Activists and advocates               22 entries 2 Actors/Actresses                      50 3 Artists                               27 4 Athletes and sports-related people 4.1 Baseball                          70 4.2 Basketball                        78 4.3 American football                231 4.4 Other sports                      36 5 Broadcast media personalities          9 6 Comedians                              3 7 Educators                             13 8 Entrepreneurs/Business leaders        21 9 Filmmakers                             6 10 Inventors                             3 11 Jurists and lawyers                  13 12 Military figures                     12 13 Models                               21 14 Musicians and performers            211 15 Physicians                            6 16 Politicians                          95 17 Supercentenarians                     3 18 Writers                              56 19 Other people                         16 What do others think about how the page should be dealt with once it becomes far to large?
 * Option 1: Leave all names on one page no matter how large it gets.
 * Option 2: Separate sections into new articles only once they have reached a certain length. (eg: List of athletes from Mississippi)
 * Option 3: Separate all sections into new articles at the same time no matter their sizes.
 * Option 4: Move from a notability-based list to an alphabetical list by list name and separate into new articles. (eg: List of people from Mississippi (A-C))

Another consideration to improve the page would be to add thumbnail pictures of people from the list to the right side. The equivalent Indiana page does this and looks pretty good, in my opinion. Thoughts on both issues or anything similar? — CobraWiki ( jabber 05:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I've seen such lists broken down into separate alphabetical lists before. For example, List of people from Mississippi (A-F), List of people from Mississippi (G-L), List of people from Mississippi (M-R) and List of people from Mississippi (S-Z). Not sure if that is a good way to go or not. Haven't given much thought to it really. Here is a perfect example of how this could be achieved. - ALLST✰R ▼ echo wuz here  06:02, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I have moved all who were in the "Athletes and sports-related people" section (as well as 4 sportscasters from the "Broadcast media personalities" to a new article List of sports-related people from Mississippi reducing this article by 448 names and leaving 654 names. — CobraWiki ( jabber 18:58, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Inclusion criteria
Removed several people from this list who neither had an article nor a reference. Lists on Wikipedia have the same criteria for inclusion as articles, that is specifially notability and verifiability. There are no references for these two people, Dianna Freelon-Foster and Jody Renaldo and an internet search on google books, google scholar and google news did not reveal any sources that establish the notability of these two people. Just being mentioned in passing in a news report is not enough, and any article started on these two people would be speedily deleted. If there are any sources I overly looked then please, by any means re add these two people with a proper references. If not, well, references are NOT optional. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.66.210.10 (talk) 21:19, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Now registered. So I am told in an aggressive tone "An IP telling me how things work but won't do the actual work themselves. Novel idea there. Here's your sources. Now make sure you remove the other 200+ entries without a source, ok?)" For the record, as I made it clear above I looked for sources, and I did not find any that established notability. There are also not 200+ entries in this list of people without a reference and without an article. The sources added by Allstarecho are completely inappropriate. One is for Dianna Freelon-Foster and is the staff list of a civil rights organisation. So all we know now is that she is a staff member of an organisation. How does that make her notable? The other source is for Jody Renaldo, (http://www.msstate.edu/web/media/detail.php?id=2362) and confirms that he participated in a panel discussion at the UMiss. Again, how does participating in a panel discussion make a person notable? So removed again, and I hope that the next time the editors who keeps on adding this unencyclopedic people will at least engage in the discussion and refrain from personalizing this content conflict. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mviroslav (talk • contribs) 16:43, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The sources prove who the people are, what they they do, and that they do it in Mississippi. Apparently you didn't read the Dianna Freelon-Foster source because it specifically says she's the first female and first black mayor of Grenada, Mississippi, which wouldn't mean anything elsewhere but it means a lot in a state known for its racism.     allstar ▼ echo    19:19, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you please stop the aggressive tone? No, I read it. But if she is indeed the first female and first black mayor of Grenada, then you surely should be able to find a reliable source for this fact, and not the staff list of the organisation she works for. I agree that if an indepedent confirmation can be found that she was indeed the first female and black mayor, than this would indeed make her notable enough. I could not find anything, neither by searching Google News for Dianna Freelon-Foster. Regarding Jody Renaldo there is still no source that establishes his notability. If as you claim these individual are notable you should have no problems finding a good, reliable and independent reference that discusses these two individuals. Mviroslav (talk) 19:33, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Wait. So I checked the Equality Mississippi article, which apart from having no or almost no sources that are both reliable and independent of the subject has an interesting box on the talk page. Apparantly Allstarecho is significantly related to Equality Mississippi. That makes me wonder why he or she insists on including Jody Renaldo despite the lack of references? Mviroslav (talk) 19:52, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If you'd read further you would have seen that I, Allstarecho, am Jody Renaldo. I think I can vouch for myself where I live, what I do and when I did it. There are many third-party sources as well in the Equality Mississippi article. As for Dianna Freelon-Foster, the source is still reliable and acceptable. I think you should familiarize yourself with WP:RELIABLE and WP:SOURCE and for this case. WP:3RR.      allstar ▼ echo    21:30, 9 August 2009 (UTC)


 * What? You are Jody Renaldo and you insist on being on a list of important people from Mississippi, without providing any evidence that you are indeed important enough to be included in an encyclopedia. No offense, I guess you did some important work in your ocmmunity, but that does not make a person important enough to be mentioned on Wikipedia. As the links you provided show, what is required are reliable, published sources. An invitation to a panel discussion and a staff directory are neither. And even if they are, a lot of things are verifiable but that does not mean that they should have their own article. I could easily verify that my grandma died ten years ago via my local newspaper, but that does not imply that I should include here in the list of people from Ontario or even write an article about her. Again, if both these two people would indeed be so important it should be easy to find some newspaper coverage about these two people and their accomplishemts.
 * P.S. Oh, and thanks for the 3RR link, but what I do not understand is, shouldnt you familiarize yourself with this rule too? Mviroslav (talk) 21:52, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If AllStarEcho is Jody Renaldo, then AllStarEcho should certainly not make any assertions of Jody Renaldo's notability, as per WP:Conflict of Interest. The question of notability should be left to other editors, to avoid the appearance of self-promotion on the part of AllStarEcho.  Plazak (talk) 22:12, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There's no COI issue in a simple list that is supported by a separate article, in this case Equality Mississippi, and reliable third-party sources. How can you have a related notable article and not include the person responsible for its notability, in a related list? Doesn't make much sense to me. But whatever you all think is necessary, I won't defend it anymore and will move on. I will still point out that there's over 200+ entries in this list that aren't sourced either so have fun and do the right thing, or what you perceive as the right thing, with them as well. -      allstar ▼ echo     22:18, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry to come late to the party, but not only is there a clear conflict of interest in edit-warring to include yourself in a list with having an existing article, but I pointed out the COI involved in your creation of Equality Mississippi and including yourself in this list some time ago. Please don't reply with attacks or accusations. Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 14:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Renaldo
I don't know if you all are just really that damn stupid or are just skimming across the source at lightening speed but the source does more than "Ref doesn't establish notability, name is listed as an attendee to a conference, nothing more". It specifically says in the source that he's the executive director. Also, nevermind the fact that another article on Wikipedia backs up this entry. Further, you can easily hit Google up for more sources but that would be work, wouldn't it? Nevermind, don't bother answering. It's obvious no one is willing to even give the entry a fair chance. 75.66.75.195 (talk) 05:24, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I opened a discussion on ANI about your edit-warring and conflict of interest here. You are welcome to participate. Otherwise, see existing discussion above. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 13:14, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you also mention your own edit warring? Of course not. I will not particiapte in that ridiculous discussion which you seem to think is the biggest emergency on Wikipedia and are whiny because you don't think it's getting the immediate attention and outcome you think it should.. so otherwise, piss off. 75.66.75.195 (talk) 18:15, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Except for the piss off bit I agree, ASE I feel they are simply baiting you and using inflamatory language is only showing that it's working. I trust ASE's judgement on almost anything compared to that of the other editor under discussion. Expressly concerning anything to do with Mississippi. Frankly there's a reasonable case to leave the entry and let the editors here who actually are willing to do the actual work of improving the article by researching and adding sourcing. It is after all a few words listing, not a stand alone article. As the list grows and larger sections become their own sublists, a section devoted to LGBT people is not an unlikely prospect. Then the logical question remains is Renaldo one of the most notable LGBT activists in the state. My hunch would be yes but I'm also not a specialist in this specific subject area so am happy to defer to those that are. If Delicious carbuncle just can't seem to leave you alone then WP:Griefing may apply. In any case please remain civil even if they disrupt or cause you other problems. I'm sure there's some sort of interesting issue going on when an editor follows mainly LGBT editors around and vies for their attention, that they can't take a hint really isn't our fault. -- Banj e  b oi   18:54, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Having this article on my watchlist and acting when Allstarecho tries to add themselves to the list against the opinions of other editors (again) has absolutely nothing to do with LGBT issues, but I'm not surprised you see it that way. Could you expand on your "interesting issue" comment because I'm not quite sure what it is you're trying to say? Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 00:10, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I have had nothing but time-wasting poor interactions with you so I really feel like this is yet another situation where just ignoring you is likely best for all concerned. -- Banj e  b oi   05:30, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

WP:3O request - WP:Lists of people
There has been a bit of a lame edit war going on at this article recently. , who is by the duck test almost certainly, a.k.a, Jody Renaldo, has been edit warring to have Jody Renaldo included in the list by virtue of his inherited notability from another article and/or by direct referencing (see above COI discussions). He then started to make pointed edits to include several other people in the list who don't have their own articles, but can be referenced to being from or linked to Mississippi, although in fairness there were already many other entries of this nature already in it. To solve the dispute fairly, and because this list is already huge, I think the guideline WP:Lists of people is pretty logical place to start, which says that lists of people should be restricted to listing people with their own biographical articles - thus establishing without doubt that they are notable, and you do not have to have the kind of discussions seen above and the lame edit warring. So I was bold and earlier today, did just that,, but 75.66.75.195 has quickly reverted. So, I've listed this on the third opinion request board, and if someone who has not already commented here, or has had interactions with the user/s involved, could comment to agree or disagree with my logic, that would be grand. MickMacNee (talk) 19:12, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Opinion (awaited)
What happens next?


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Replies to opinion

 * Thanks for your opinion User:Work permit. Unfortunately, I'm not really sure you actually looked at the Google sources you yourself have linked to in your opinion. In fact, he's found in all of them. Additionally, you've provided a new source I've never seen, the book Encyclopedia of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender History in America by Marc Stein found at the Google Books link you yourself provided: Him being wrote about in this book that specifically says, "Today the political struggle is largely led by Equality Mississippi and its executive director, Jody Renaldo." If that doesn't make him notable, at least in Mississippi - and in a list about notable Mississippians - I guess nothing on the face of the Earth will. That been said, I disagree with the opinion. 75.66.75.195 (talk) 02:56, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Reasonable people can disagree. That's why I provided all the sources. But before you do, please read wp:Notability, and BIO.  As a  Basic measure.  If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent  sources may be needed to prove notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability.  None of the sources I have seen provide  significant coverage of Renaldo, either in isolation or put all together. In fact, he's not the subject of any of the articles.  He's usually just being quoted for his opinion on the main subject of the article.  That's what I based my opinion on.--Work permit (talk) 03:22, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Cheers for the opinon, but you haven't really responded to what I was asking. My issue is not specifically whether he should be in it, but whether converting this list to an bio article only list, per the guideline's advice, was a reasonable way out of this dispute. MickMacNee (talk) 03:42, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I apologize for my ignorance, because I'm not sure what you mean by a "bio article list", so perhaps that's why I missed your point.  I used the WP:Lists of people guideline.  You mentioned it as well.  Selected lists of people should be selected for importance/notability in  that category and should have Wikipedia articles (or the reasonable  expectation of an article in the future). For example, lists of atheists doesn't include  every individual with a Wikipedia article who happens to be an atheist,  because not all of them are notable for their atheism. However, it might  well include Sigmund Freud. See also Wikipedia:Notability (people).  Lists may include people who are notable for a single event  or activity and therefore do not have their own article, if they are  of particular importance in the context of this event or activity.  There isn't a "presumption" of a bio article under these criteria. And just because you do have a bio, and you are a Mississippian, it doesn't guarantee inclusion in the article. Bringing this up does, of course, opens a can of worms, because through my cursory glance at this article, there are may "bio" articles that wouldn't meet this criteria.  I believe Banjeboi  alludes to this issue below.  I was answering the narrow question of Renaldo, who imho doesn't meet either criteria, either being notable in his own right or being a notable Mississippian.
 * Did you mean to say that Mississippians are "national/ethnic" people? As in  An exception is nationality/ethnicity. List of Albanians includes persons who are famous in any  category and who belong to Albania.  The criteria for identifying as an Albanian does not solely depend upon  the official citizenship laws of that country – a person could be  related to the place by birth, residency, parentage, or by his or her  personal admission, considers himself or herself to be an Albanian at  heart..  I hadn't thought of Mississippians being analogous to Albanians.--Work permit (talk) 04:59, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I was answering the narrow question of Renaldo, who imho doesn't meet either criteria, either being notable in his own right or being a notable Mississippian. So someone who is a prominent member of the activism and advocacy community in the state, someone that's written about in a book, someone that's been a leader in the civil rights movement in the state, someone that started a gay rights movement in the state when there wasn't one present, someone that's been interviewed or noted in numerous media outlets, someone who is said to be the founder of a notable organization in another WP article - isn't even notable enough to be in a list of people from a single state? Interesting, to say the least... 75.66.75.195 (talk) 05:59, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the belated response. Like I said, reasonable people can disagree, and in the case of Renaldo I understand your argument and you make a reasonable case. Let me add there are people (see Anthony Colom below) whose case appears so weak (to me) that I deleted the entry myself. Renaldo's case is different.  It's my opinion that, absent any other framework established through wp:consensus for including people who are not notable in their own right, he isn't a notable enough Mississippian. However, I could imagine editors developing a critera on who to include and exclude that would lead to the deletion of a large number of people WITH bio articles, and at the same time include Renaldo.--Work permit (talk) 01:17, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

 * User:Nefariousski came in and removed many very famous/nationally acclaimed/notable artists. Just because they don't have an article on Wikipedia does not mean they can't be in a list of people. I restored SOME of those people, with additional sources. Yes, go back and look.. I didn't restore ALL of the people that Nefariousski removed. THEN, you came along and removed even more very famous/nationally acclaimed/notable people. This is a LIST for god's sake, not an article! People on this list do NOT have to have an article on Wikipedia. Per WP:Lists of people, it is very reasonable to think or expect that at some time in the future, these people will have an article about them, but it's not a requirement. 75.66.75.195 (talk) 19:29, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, Stand-alone lists are Wikipedia articles. I think you must be thinking of wp:categories--Work permit (talk) 01:09, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Not having an article already is a very bad litmus test actually, we use WP:Redlinks in part to show on lists such as this where Wikipedia may have gaps in coverage. Due to systematic bias Wikipedia tends to have articles that mirror the make-up of the editors here. The average Wikipedian on the English Wikipedia is (1) a man, (2) technically inclined, (3) formally educated, (4) an English speaker (native or non-native), (5) white, (6) aged 15–49, (7) from a majority-Christian country, (8) from a developed nation, (9) from the Northern Hemisphere, and (10) likely employed as a white-collar worker or as a student rather than as a labourer (cf. User survey and University of Würzburg survey, 2005). This is why we encourage content editors to make the best effort to comprehensively and dispassionately cover a subject. As far as I can see ASE has been doing decent and diligent work and the only issue is this one entry which other editors claim must be promotional. It might be but frankly ASE is also one of the more competent folks to know the context of Mississippi culture. I have no issue with including  person X is the founder of organization y , that's exactly how we do it on a disambiguation page and wikipedia remains not made of paper so it's not a space issue. Once the entire list is cleaned up and vetted, splits into smaller lists occur, etc then it may be obvious to all that this one entry is unneeded or indeed is no big deal. The only reason there seems to be a focus is on the editor rather than the content. That's almost never a good editing policy. Inclusion or disinclusion should likely wait until we get the work done that should preceed a thoughtful review in where we likely have gaps in coverage, how that should be remedied, etc. -- Banj e  b oi   19:54, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I've jumped out of my "third opinion provider" status and have become a regular editor. I just reverted an addition of "Anthony Colom (born 1968), publisher and editor of The New Power Magazine". While the policy of WP:Lists of people does not require an article, or a reasonable chance of having one, it does require establishing notability of the individual within the context of "being a Mississippian". In practice, I think it's going to be a very unusual situation where someone is a "notable Mississippian" without being notable in his own right. The issue in this article is that there are too many people listed, not too few. Certainly is not a notable Mississippian.--Work permit (talk) 01:06, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Having a Wiki article is actually a very good criterion for notability. Wiki articles are scrutinized for notability, to weed out self-promoters and those transiently in the news. As it is, there are too many people on this list with nothing more to show except that they have a website or that they once got their name in a magazine. As for systematic bias, someone had to put each name on the list; if the person who listed them does not consider them worth the bother of creating at least a stub Wiki article about them, that tells me that even the person who listed their name does not rate them highly. Creating Wiki articles about people is not difficult, if they are notable.  Plazak (talk) 23:54, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Anthony Colom
See above. I just reverted an addition of "Anthony Colom (born 1968), publisher and editor of The New Power Magazine". While the policy of WP:Lists of people does not require an article, or a reasonable chance of having one, it does require establishing notability of the individual within the context of "being a Mississippian". In practice, I think it's going to be a very unusual situation where someone is a "notable Mississippian" without being notable in his own right. The issue in this article is that there are too many people listed, not too few. Certainly is not a notable Mississippian.--Work permit (talk) 02:16, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree strongly. Too often this article is used for self-promotion, often using only the subject's own website for reference.  Plazak (talk) 02:23, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: FWIW, here is the wp:afd on his magazine Articles_for_deletion/Junior_Varsity_Magazine--Work permit (talk) 03:46, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Rscottms (talk) has added this source Magazine will focus on youth in Golden Triangle to support his addition. A single article in a local newspaper, in the sports section, noting Andrew is starting up a bi-monthly magazine with his staff of seven. He still doesn't strike me as notable or a notable Mississippian. I can find several single articles on many "Andrew Coloms" in the country, none notable. I do hope Rscottms (talk) will discuss this on the talk page. If not, and if there are no objections, I'll remove it in a day--Work permit (talk) 05:20, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

His name isn't Andrew Colom. It's Anthony Colom. He's notable for his work in the state of Mississippi in hip-hop culture. Before he created his publication, our state had no other outlet of written expression in hip-hop and r&b music unless a writer somewhere felt it necessary to write about our artists. His publication was able to take our artists outside of the state of Mississippi. I keep reading that I need to prove this, but no one is able to disprove this. Seven years of publishing a hard copy magazine and 1 year of publishing a digital version that's documented via the internet should be proof enough. His publication has even won an Online Magazine of The Year Award at 2008 Southern Entertainment Awards. They have his publication listed on their site as the winner. I'm a true fan of the publication because I've seen what it's done for the rejected and overlooked artists in our state. I've seen other writers on here who've been on the list for a while with only a listing profile from a website and no one has deleted them. But this man actually publishes a magazine and distributes it throughout the South and he gets deleted. WOW ! I guess you say rap and hip-hop, and black man comes to mind, and oh.. he must be deleted. WOW ! Unbelievable. There are people listed on here that I don't believe are notable, but that doesn't mean they're not, simply because I know nothing about them or their culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rscottms (talk • contribs) 06:33, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * , Anthony Colom--Work permit (talk) 13:54, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm inclined to agree with Work permit. Seven years of publishing a hard copy magazine does not make one inherently notable, especially if it's a magazine that is distributed only at trade shows (which the recreated article on his hop-hop magazine asserted). Given the meager independent coverage of Colom, and given that neither he nor either of his magazines has an article, notability is not demonstrated. —C.Fred (talk) 14:29, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Who should be added as right-side images?
Due to all of the dead space on the right side, it would be a good idea to add pictures to fill the space. I have seen it on a few other pages and I think that it looks good. The question is, who among all of the names do we give these places of honor? Although I could pick and choose all alone, I'm curious who other people would choose. I have only three requests. Because we are lucky enough that this list is divided by category and not just alphabetically, pictures could be grouped next to the categories in which this belong. — CobraWiki ( jabber 18:35, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Obviously the person has to have a picture, so check articles for decent pictures before making choices. Remember that the pictures will be around thumbnail size, so if the person is too far away or within a group, they won't be seen or distinguished.
 * 2) The person should have more significance than "he's my favorite." Most should be people who did something first, exceptional, or have influence in some way.
 * 3) The list should be created first before adding so that it all moves smoothly.

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131031192544/http://mshistory.k12.ms.us/articles/349/clyde-kennard-a-little-known-civil-rights-pioneer to http://mshistory.k12.ms.us/articles/349/clyde-kennard-a-little-known-civil-rights-pioneer
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091016091833/http://www.bradybronze.com/bruce.htm to http://www.bradybronze.com/bruce.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080512024016/http://www.billfitzhugh.com/about.html to http://www.billfitzhugh.com/about.html
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20120904172513/http://www.nems360.com/view/full_story/3595270/article-LOCAL-FOLKS--Tupelo-man-combines-his-love-for-music--history?.html to http://www.nems360.com/view/full_story/3595270/article-LOCAL-FOLKS--Tupelo-man-combines-his-love-for-music--history?.html

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 07:37, 1 January 2018 (UTC)