Talk:List of primary state highways in Virginia

naming articles on Virginia Secondary Roads
In Virginia, we have Interstate and Primary highways with unique numbers. But state maintained secondary routes have a numbering system which duplicates numbers from 600 up in various parts of the state. In WP, we are just now starting to get articles on some major secondary roads, such as Virginia Secondary Route 711, which is essentially as busy as and maintained like a primary highway, but isn't one because they want to keep it a scenic byway and discourage through traffic. This is an unusual situation with 711, but I see naming conflict on the horizon for others (i.e. there could be dozens of other roads which are also a Virginia secondary route numbered 711). The article List of Virginia numbered highways does a pretty good job of describing the conflicts we will have with names such as this one, but I don't know how else to name the article. Do we have a WP naming convention for situations such as this?
 * Mark in Historic Triangle Vaoverland 19:30, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm not aware of any naming convention for Virginia secondary routes. Unless there is one that I've just overlooked, I'd like to propose the following, based with some modifications on the naming convention for California county routes.  Please feel free to suggest any improvements, and if I should be saying this elsewhere, please advise.


 * For secondary routes in a single county, Virginia Secondary Route 7900 (Fairfax County).


 * For secondary routes crossing county lines, I'm not quite sure. We could name the article after the most populous county and give other names as redirects, e.g., Virginia Secondary Route 620 (Fairfax County) with Virginia Secondary Route 620 (Loudoun County) as a redirect.  Alternatively, we could have a single name Virginia Secondary Route 620 (Fairfax-Loudoun counties).


 * Doctor Whom 23:25, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


 * This is indeed quite the quagmire. I feel that we should just have separate articles for each county route.  Virginia Secondary Highway 606 (Loudoun County) and Virginia Secondary Highway 606 (Fairfax County).  This will require a little bit of brainstorming and agreement.  I actually support something like "Route 606 (Loudoun County, Virginia)" because that's apparently what User:SPUI has inserted in a lot of the exit lists such as I-95 and so forth.  But if we're up to it, I'm up to it.  Check out my WikiProject on my userpage.  It's near the bottom.  --MPD01605 02:26, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I have no strong feelings either way as to whether we go with "Route 606 (Loudoun County, Virginia)" or "Virginia Secondary Highway 606 (Loudoun County)." I do believe that if a secondary route goes through more than one county, as is the case with Route 711 (Powhatan and Chesterfield Counties, Virginia), we should have a single article, with redirects as needed.  Of course, routes that are entirely separate except for having the same number should have separate articles.  Doctor Whom 02:09, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject
Please check this out and offer your support and ideas. I'd really like to see this happen soon. Virginia Highway Wikiproject Temporary Page (WikiProject Proposals VA Highways). --MPD01605 05:36, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

These numbers were eliminated or truncated in 1933 as they were concurrent with U.S. Routes
US 17 is confusing; I may finish that later. --NE2 06:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * State Route 10: U.S. Route 11, TN to Roanoke; needs details
 * State Route 11 needs details
 * State Route 12 needs details
 * State Route 13: U.S. Route 460, Farmville to Burkeville; U.S. Route 360, Burkeville to Callao; what about the western extension???
 * State Route 14: U.S. Route 501, Lynchburg to Buena Vista; needs details
 * State Route 18: U.S. Route 501, NC to Lynchburg
 * State Route 21: U.S. Route 211, New Market to DC
 * State Route 24: U.S. Route 301, NC to Petersburg
 * State Route 29: U.S. Route 17, Gloucester Point to Gloucester
 * State Route 31: U.S. Route 1, NC to DC
 * State Route 32: U.S. Route 15, NC to MD
 * State Route 33: U.S. Route 11, Roanoke to WV
 * State Route 34: U.S. Route 13, Cape Charles to MD
 * State Route 40: U.S. Route 17, NC to Portsmouth

Route or State Route?
I've seen both these terms used outside Wikipedia. Which one should we be using? --NE2 08:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

2 1/2% clause routes
The law allowed 100 extra miles per year.

1922
This is 78.1 miles total, and is the "remaining mileage". The other routes may be in the end of 1922; the November and December 1922 minutes have broken links. Numbers are not given in the minutes, but are from.
 * 
 * State Route 373 (now part of State Route 55) Strasburg to Riverton 10.0
 * State Route 171 (now part of State Route 254) Staunton to near Christians 9.0
 * State Route 341 (now State Route 176) Parksley to the Alms House 2.5
 * State Route 4X, then State Route 342 (now State Route 126 and part of State Route 179) Tasley through Onancock 2.8?
 * part of State Route 9, then part of State Route 393 (now part of State Route 249) Bottoms Bridge to New Kent Court House 10.0
 * State Route 25 (now part of State Route 123) Chain Bridge by Tysons Corner towards Fairfax 12.0?
 * State Route 131 (now part of State Route 14) St. Stephens Church-King & Queen C.H. 18.0?
 * State Route 113 (now part of State Route 63) St. Paul to Dante 7.8?
 * State Route 116 (now part of U.S. Route 23) Big Stone Gap toward Natural Tunnel 6.0?

1923
30.0 miles:
 * 
 * State Route 25 (now part of State Route 123) Chain Bridge Road for an additional 2.0
 * State Route 115 (now State Route 160) Appalachia to Kentucky 6.0
 * State Route 322 (now part of U.S. Route 60) Sprouses to Buckingham C. H. 5.0
 * State Route 338 in late 20s - what before??? (now State Route 39) Lexington through Goshen Pass to Goshen 17.0

[73.0] miles (makes more than 100!):
 * 
 * State Route 325 (now part of State Route 7) Leesburg - Purcellville 11.0
 * State Route 374 (now part of State Route 20) Orange - Wilderness 10.0
 * State Route 109 (now part of State Route 100) Dublin - Popular Hill 10.0
 * unknown (now secondary) Morven to connect with Route No. 13 5.0
 * State Route 312 (now secondary) Gum Tree to Coatesville 9.0
 * State Route 143 (now State Route 311) Crows to the West Virginia Line, South 7.0
 * State Route 41 (now State Route 5) Charles City C.H. towards Richmond 18.5
 * Moccasin Gap to Tennessee Line 2.5 (doesn't make sense!)

Virginia Beach towards Fort Story for about 3 miles added - again not sure if it was part of the 2.5% system - State Route 101, now part of U.S. Route 60

1924

 * April 1924
 * part of State Route 26 (now part of U.S. Route 21) Wytheville towards Independence 2.0
 * part of State Route 26 (now part of U.S. Route 21) Independence towards Wytheville 2.0
 * State Route 1010 (now part of State Route 70) Jonesville towards Blackwater 2.0
 * part of State Route 105? (now part of State Route 91?) Plum Creek towards Liberty 6.5
 * part of State Route 26 (now part of U.S. Route 52) Bland towards Bastain 4.0
 * State Route 118 (now part of State Route 80) Council towards Honaker 6.0
 * part of State Route 17 (now part of U.S. Route 220) Eagle Rock towards Fincastle 9.0

There are lists in March 1924, March 1924, April 1924, July 1924, January 1925

Two-digit routes
Many routes that were added are only described in the table below. Here are some two-digit routes:
 * State Route 25 (now part of State Route 123) Fairfax - Tyson's Corner - Chain Bridge March 1923
 * State Route 39 (now part of State Route 54) "from Negrofoot in the general direction of Ashland, crossing the South Anna River at or near a point where the present Richmond-Washington Highway crosses and thence to or through Ashland to Route No. 1" March 1923
 * part of State Route 22 (now part of State Route 311) New Castle - WV May 1923
 * State Route 40 (now U.S. Route 17) Portsmouth - NC June 1923 (Route 12X in March 1923)
 * State Route 41 (now State Route 5) Charles City CH towards Richmond for about 18 miles June 1923
 * part of State Route 32 (now U.S. Route 15) Fluvanna County Line near New Canton, by way of Gold Hill, Dillwyn, Sprouces, Curdsville and Sheppards to the Buckingham County Line July 1923
 * part of State Route 36 (now U.S. Route 50) Chambersville - at or near Hayfield - Gore - Parishville - WV July 1923
 * part of State Route 10 (still Route 10) Surry County Line at Lawns Creek - near Ferguson's Wharf - Smithfield - Benns Church - Hammond County Line July 1923
 * part of State Route 29 (now U.S. Route 17) Gloucester CH - at or near Whitemarsh - at or near Hayes Store - Gloucester Point
 * part of State Route 21 (now U.S. Route 221) Luray - at or near Thornton Gap - Rappahannock Line July 1923
 * part of State Route 12 (now State Route 92) Chase City - near Emory's Mill - Boydton July 1923
 * part of State Route 17 (now State Route 42 and State Route 39) Harrisonburg - Warm Springs August 1923
 * part of State Route 36 (now U.S. Route 50) Middleburg - Chambersville August 1923
 * part of State Route 14 (now U.S. Route 60) Covington - Clifton Forge August 1923
 * part of State Route 12 (now U.S. Route 360 and State Route 360) Coleman's Ferry - Pittsylvania County August 1923
 * part of State Route 37 (now U.S. Route 522) Culpeper - Rappahannock County August 1923
 * part of State Route 37 (now State Route 7 and U.S. Route 340) Double Toll Gates - Winchester - Winchester-Berryville Turnpike - Berryville - coinciding with Route 361 through Gaylord to WV Route 50 October 1923
 * part of State Route 14 (now U.S. Route 60) Covington - WV December 1923
 * part of State Route 23 (now U.S. Route 460) Pearisburg - WV (WV 29) December 1923 (not established yet)

There's an interesting bit on Route 31 north of South Hill on December 1923 page 19.

Initial numbers for Interstates
These numbers were assigned to the Interstates in the late 1950s before the permanent numbers were assigned.
 * 401 I-95 (03-1957-01 page 23 at Emporia, 10-1957-02 page 1 at Woodbridge (to the south end of Route 350))
 * 402 I-81 (03-1957-01 page 22 at Buchanan, page 23 at Bristol, 05-1957-01 page 64 at Harrisonburg)
 * 403 I-64 (03-1957-01 page 24 at Covington/Clifton Forge)
 * 404 I-64 (05-1957-01 page 53 at Waynesboro, 09-1957-01 at Newport News, 12-1957-01 at Hampton)
 * 405 I-66 (05-1957-01 page 15 at Fairfax, 08-1957-01 at Centreville)
 * 406
 * 407 I-381 (03-1957-01 page 23 whole route - also included Route 381 to the state line)
 * 408 I-81??? (01-1959-01 page 2 "Int. Route 130, (Near Natural Bridge)-1.533 Miles N. of Int. Route 130, Rockbridge County" - might not be 408 (hard to read); 03-1955-01 page 9 lists a possibly related project as Route 11)
 * 409 I-564? (08-1958-01)
 * 410
 * 411
 * 412
 * 413 I-495 (07-1959-01 page 13 whole route; 03-1958-01 page 50 whole route, lists it as "413 (88)" - other Interstates are for instance "95 (1)" and "66 (55,17)" - 05-1957-01 page 17 calls it "Route 415 (Route 88)" - also see 07-1956-01 page 39 - "Metropolitan Circumferential")

10-1957-02 page 2 also includes the permanent two-digit numbers. 03-1958-01 page 12 lists the renumberings: 64 to 63, 66 to 65, 81 to 69, 85 to 102. 04-1958-01 22-23 lists the numbers again and the spurs (unnumbered). 11-1961-01 page 9 lists the renumbering caused by I-295: 295 to 215.

Another interesting fact - present US 11W in Bristol (State Street to Route 381) was temporarily designated Route 597! (04-1960-01 page 41) --NE2 00:16, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Other Interstates that could fit: --NE2 00:24, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I-77 - no, added later
 * I-195 - no, added in 1969
 * I-264 - not sure
 * I-295 - not sure
 * I-464 - not sure
 * I-564 - not sure
 * I-664 - no, added later


 * I believe the I-295 designation was done much later. The roadway we currently know as I-295 was originally intended to be I-95 and effectively bypass the Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike and run to the east of Richmond and Petersburg. The loss of the I-95 designation through each was of great concern to those two cities, and the redesignation of the newer routing as I-295 was a largely politically motivated decision well into the design and build process in the 1980s. I was a transportation-involved person for Petersburg at the time, and we feared great loss of tourism, motel traffic, etc. The Turnpike's routing through Richmond left that city with less opportunities to build service stations, restaurants, and motels along the roadway through the city, but the political muscle was still utilized to (successfully) avoid losing the I-95 designation. Scott Kozel's "Roads to the Future" website has a good explanation of much of this and other interesting background. Vaoverland 17:03, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * SR 295 was renumbered in 1961 because of the conflict with I-295. --NE2 18:09, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

08-1968-01 41 has some proposed Interstates, including SR 164. --NE2 15:04, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Details of the renumberings
04-1923-01 uses only old numbers for three-digit numbers, 05-1923-01 uses both, and 05-1923-02 uses only new numbers. But 06-1923-01 still uses both old and new for x/3x (possibly erroneously). 07-1923-01 uses only 3x.

08-1928-01 uses the old numbers. 08-1928-02 looks like the first to use the new numbers, but it also uses the old ones (without "old route" or anything). This dual usage continues through 01-1929-03; the first few in 1929 have funding tables with old and new columns. Other than that, 02-1929-01 seems to be the first one with only new numbers.

12-1932-01 page 1 talks about how and why they should study renumbering. The first relevant use af "new route" or "old route" seems to be 08-1933-01, but is incomplete. It appears that 10-1933-01 and on uses only new numbers.

10-1940-01 page 8 has a full table of the 1940 renumbering. --NE2 12:36, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

The following suffixed routes existed before the 1923 renumbering
--NE2 04:46, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * 4-X (341): "Tasley to Onancock" 03-1923-01 page 8
 * 7-X (371): "Callao to a point at or near Hague, thence to connect with Route 7 at a point near Templeman's Cross Roads" 11-1922-02 page 6, "Warsaw, Templeman's Cross Roads, The Hague, Callao, Reedsville" 01-1923-01 page 5, "between Warsaw and Heathsville" 03-1923-01 page 9
 * 7-Y (372): "between Washington's Old Home and Intersection of Route 7" 11-1922-02 page 5
 * 9-X (30 or 393): "West Point to Richmond either via New Kent C.H. or King William C.H." 11-1922-01 page 4
 * 10-Y (112): "between Lebanon and Hansonville" 10-1922-01 page 11, 03-1923-02 page 7, page 17, 05-1923-01 page 6
 * 11-X (111?) "Grundy-Hanger" [Hanger is Keen Mountain?] 03-1923-02 page 12
 * 11-Z (1141, maybe also 114): "Clintwood toward Fremont" 10-1922-01 page 4
 * 12-W (103): "Suffolk to the North Carolina Line" 01-1923-01 page 9
 * 12-X (40): "Deep Creek to the N.C.State Line" 09-1922-01 page 7, 10-1922-01 page 9 [also talks about South Hill - probably a typo for South Mills, NC - or maybe there were two 12-X's? Earlier stuff does talk about South Hill south to NC, which became 122, but 08-1922-01 page 7 says they can't take it over until tolls are removed. 03-1923-01 page 15 says that tolls were still collected, but also calls it Route 122! But 10-1922-01 page 9 refers to a General Jervey, who is City Manager of Portsmouth - why would he care about 122? It has to be a typo for South Mills.], "from Portsmouth City limits to the intersection of the Deep Creek Boulevard" 03-1923-01 page 2
 * 12-Y (121): "between Franklin and Smith's Ferry" 01-1923-01 page 13, "Franklin to the North Carolina Line" 03-1923-01 page 8, 04-1923-01 page 3
 * 12-Z (15): "between Hillsville and the North Carolina Line... by way of Fancy Gap" 11-1922-01 page 11

Mentions of U.S. Highway planning
--NE2 00:51, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * 01-1922-03 28 - not U.S. Highways, but mentions roads crossing the NC line
 * 07-1925-01 9 mentions tabling an auto trail proposal until the U.S. Highways are designated
 * 10-1925-02 5 - addition of US 401 and US 501
 * 12-1925-01 7 - adding state highways (Petersburg to Emporia and US 21)
 * 04-1926-01 7 - authorized to cooperate with other states

Acts that affected the system
Hopefully this will be added to the article if I get it all figured out.

The Governor appointed the Commission under Chapter 403, Acts of 1922.

All acts:
 * 184 1920 Robertson Act - peaple can advance money for certain projects
 * 403 1922 - created the new Commission, 2&frac12;% clause (04-1926-01 8)
 * 448 1924
 * 160 1928
 * 55 1930 - 1587 miles more per year (09-1930-01 22)
 * 64 1930 - town takeovers

Town takeovers:
 * 07-1930-02 12, 09-1930-01 4-5, 12-1930-01 5, 12-1930-03 8, 01-1931-01 7, 02-1931-01 8, 05-1931-01 12, 06-1931-01 12, 08-1931-01 02, 10-1931-01 21, 12-1931-01 3 - possibly more searching for "take over"

--NE2 13:05, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Complete list, 1933-present for three-digit numbers
I'm playing around with a new format. If it works, I'll replace the one on the article with this one. (moved to the article --NE2 14:46, 4 September 2006 (UTC))

I prefer this format here, and would like to see it used on the lsit of Virginia numbered highways. --Willy No1lakersfan (Talk - Contribs) 14:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I like the new format. I was looking at Oklahoma's and it was on my to-do list to table that all up.  Beat me to it. Looks good. --MPD01605 (T / C) 15:06, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Highways that end at state borders
Instead of just listing the state when a Virginia state highway ends at a border, what about listing the state and where it ends in Virginia? For example, US 1 begins in North Carolina at Mecklenberg County (or near South Hill) and ends in Washington D.C. at Arlington.Anderfreude 04:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's possible. Are we taking about the lead paragraph?  If so, yeah that's fine.  "Virginina State Route 9 begins at West Virginia State Route 9 on the Jefferson County/Loudoun County border and ends at State Route 7 just east of Leesburg" bad example, but maybe something like "US 15 enters from North Carolina in Mecklenberg County near Clarksville and travels through central Virginia, ending at the Potomac River in Loudoun County and continues into Maryland."  Gramatically speaking, it should be "in" a county and "at" a city... for state routes "begin" and "end" are fine and should note the route that it begins and ends at (a different state's route, even), and yeah the Virginia county it ends in.  Likewise for U.S. and Interstate routes, except they don't necessarily "end"...so "enter" and "leave" could be better I guess.  As long as it makes sense, feel free to make it work however you think it does. :-) -- M PD T / C 04:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry to be unclear- I meant in the table, so US 1 North Carolina in Mecklenberg Co. Washington D.C. at Arlington. I put it in the table, so if people like it then we'll expand on it, if not then not.Anderfreude 23:29, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Put slightly different format in the table for space-saving reasons, want to know what you all think.Anderfreude 23:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * U.S. 1 in VA looks fine! Yeah, space was my main concern, but that one looks good! -- M PD T / C 06:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

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SR 248
I removed this highway from the current list (the former route remains listed) because I can find absolutely no reference to it anywhere. Anyone have a clue? Famartin (talk) 03:12, 23 June 2017 (UTC)