Talk:List of prime ministers of Japan

PM count
For the record I am counting the present Prime Minister Koizumi Junichiro as the 68th Prime Minister not the 56th. After all if it was good enough for Grover Cleveland to be counted twice as President of the United States then be good enough for Prime Ministers of Japan serving non-consecutive terms to be counted more than once as well.--The Shadow Treasurer 04:33, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

picture
The picture of Shinzō Abe is "stupid" - the British flag in the background?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jorgusch (talk • contribs) 18:58, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

List update in progress
The current list is riddled with mistakes and ommissions. I am currently working on a revised list. What was the source for the original list? JeroenHoek 14:14, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I demand a recount
Here in Australia the interim Prime Ministers are counted, so therefore I do not see why the same could not also applied with the Prime Ministers of Japan. Either that or just get rid of the numbers altogether. --The Shadow Treasurer 29 June 2005 04:52 (UTC)


 * Apparantly, in Japan they don't.


 * None of the interim ministers held that post very long (a few days mostly). Perhaps interim prime minister isn't the right term for "the guy that does whatever the previous prime minister was doing until a new prime minister is available", but they shouldn't be counted. JeroenHoek 29 June 2005 09:28 (UTC)

The shortest serving Australian Prime Minister Frank Forde was only in the job for six days. If he can be counted for that short a period then it is not unreasonable for the interims in Japan to be counted as well.--The Shadow Treasurer 29 June 2005 23:23 (UTC)


 * This article aims to present a comprehensive list of Japanese Prime Ministers. It makes sense to include who acted as interim prime minister during gaps between cabinets. However, an acting prime minister is not a prime minister. The first column shows the number of the cabinet, the second the number of the individual.


 * Also, history books, academic papers and official Japanese government material all use the currently used numbering for as far as I can tell, they call Koizumi Junichirō the 87th prime minister, not the 95th. JeroenHoek 30 June 2005 11:56 (UTC)

I am a historian with a degree in East Asian studies and I concur that the interims should not be counted.

Also, this characterization "imperial rule" for Konoe Fumimaro's governments has no basis in Japanese historiography whatsoever. His governments should also be labeled "no party."

silentcity 9 August 2005 20:19 (UTC)


 * Then please feel free to edit the entries for Konoe. I didn't change those descriptions when I revised the list, there might be some wrong data in it (the list had a lot of mistakes and ommisions before I revised it, so some mistakes may remain) JeroenHoek 20:54, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Acting Prime Ministers should not be counted if he is only standing in for a Prime Minister who is absent or sick but who is still commissioned for that high office. However interim Prime Ministers should be counted because they are exactly that Prime Minister for an interim period between the departure of the previous Prime Minister and the appointment of a Prime Minister who would serve for a much more substantial period. To not count an interim Prime Minister for the brief time that he served is like saying that this period in time never existed. --The Shadow Treasurer 03:36, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

"I am a historian with a degree in East Asian studies and I concur that the interims should not be counted."

As I already said I do not agree with the interims not being counted. Historical papers and official documents can say whatever they want, does not mean they are right. Therefore I do not see the relevance of your degree since when do you need a degree for simple arithmetic. --The Shadow Treasurer 03:48, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Name order
Some of the PM names are incorrectly listed using the Japanese convention (Last name first) instead of Wikipedia's English-standard convention. If someone gets a chance, it would be a good idea to review the entire list for the sake of consistency. Best, J Readings 12:38, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

————

This issue has recently arisen again. The following is a conversation of mine with User:WhisperToMe on the subject, following a recent edit:


 * ''You recently removed the convention on this list that all names follow the Japanese name order (family name, given name). While your solution of following the Japanese order for politicians born before 1868, and the Western order for those born in 1868 or later, follows the letter of MOS:JAPAN, it is extremely confusing and inconsistent in a list which spans the two periods without a gap. For instance, Wakatsuki Reijirō and Osachi Hamaguchi were born only four years apart, and were consecutive Prime Ministers, but their names now follow different orders. I recommend that this be reconsidered. BartBassist (talk) 16:49, 30 September 2011 (UTC)


 * ''While I understand what was going on before, it feels strange to have a single page go against the MOS which is supposed to globally apply to all articles on EN. The usage of having "old" names be FN-GN and "new" ones be GN-FN happens in many places. The only reason why the prime minister list is so different is because, as you said, some of those figures are only a few years apart.


 * ''Perhaps the solution is to say "People born after Meiji 1 have their family name last, people born before then have the family name first" - All of the figures have their dates of birth included, so people can tell via the birth year. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:13, 30 September 2011 (UTC)


 * ''This is a bit of a cheat's solution, but could we argue that, although the early PMs were born before the Meiji era, the first term started in 1885, in the Meiji era, so we should treat all the PMs as modern figures and use the western order. That way, the list would at least be consistent. BartBassist (talk) 17:36, 30 September 2011 (UTC)


 * ''While if I had to choose having them all in the same order, I would prefer them all to be GN-FN (after all the practice of name switching started in Meiji) - It may be a good idea to mention this on the MOS-JA talk page to see what others think too WhisperToMe (talk) 18:31, 30 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.157.57.252 (talk)


 * I agree that the 1868 rule makes this list look strange. It feels like strict adherence to the 1868 rule is not appropriate on this list. I would rather see a more common sense rule. I would propose that those of the genro generation have their family name first, and those younger than the genro generation have their given name first. --Westwind273 (talk) 05:56, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Former Ministerial Offices Held (Added)
I added this column to the article. I got the idea from List of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom, which became a featured article at one point. The details on that article are impressive and useful. Hopefully, we can add similar details here. J Readings (talk) 06:21, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Background Colors
It's not stated anywhere as to what the background colors indicate. Although it appears that they are an indication of party affiliation, there are some differences. Anyone know for sure? CFLeon (talk) 23:39, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I've attempted to put a color code box at the head of the article to let readers know which parties correspond to which colors. This was used successfully in the List of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom. I hoped to repeat it here, but a technical glitch seems to screw everything up right now. If anyone knows how to match the Japanese party colors in the tables with the colors in the opening box at the head of the article, I would appreciate it. Thanks again, J Readings (talk) 05:45, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, its done I had fix the color problem. — ■ ~∀SÐFﾑｻ~ ■ =]  Babashi? antenna? 21:45, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much. It looks great now.J Readings (talk) 01:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Sosuke Uno.jpg
The image Image:Sosuke Uno.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

The following images also have this problem:


 * File:MiyazawaKiichi.jpg

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --04:40, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

The Numbers?
I noticed that there is no definition of A# and I# in the article. As I do not know what they stand for, could someone write a line or two defining them? Svyatoslav (talk) 17:43, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Democratic, occupation
I had already edited the article before. So, I'll post here instead of editing again: I just want to point out that Ashida Hitoshi's Minshutō (Democratic Party, 1947-1950, (ja)) and Hatoyama Ichirō's Nihon Minshutō (Democratic Party of Japan, 1954-1955, (ja)) were - despite some continuity - two different parties. --Asakura Akira (talk) 08:53, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Stuff
WhisperToMe (talk) 18:38, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
 * "." The Japan Times. Tuesday September 27, 2011.

Election results
I have compiled list of prime ministerial election results (User:Asakura Akira/Diet directory) from the Japanese Wikipedia, and I was wondering whether there would be demand for or objection against including the results table as it is (*) in this article or if it should be transformed into a separate article of its own instead as I had originally intended. Any thoughts? (*): Of course, except for the colours which now match the era-spanning colour scheme used in Commons:Category:Pie charts for elections in Japan which roughly reflects pre-/post-war continuities between parties; but adapting the table to the colors used here is quickly done if it should be included here. --Asakura Akira (talk) 12:28, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

The poor "clean up" of the article
As the entire article has been denuded of most of its material, I suggest we put it all back in order to make it more informative and interesting again. Arglebargle79 (talk) 19:58, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reasons for deletion at the file description pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:24, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Kiichi Miyazawa cropped 2 Kiichi Miyazawa 19911105.png
 * Noboru Takeshita cropped 2 Noboru Takeshita 19871106.png

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
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 * Nobusuke Kishi.png

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
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Fake Looking Images
I have noticed that on the Prime Ministers page that the files below are not photos and look over-edited and unnatural, I would rather these images be replaced with actual photos. The images are:



I will replace these images with real looking photos if I have notice. I also forgot to put that some earlier images have been deleted earlier and some have been brought back. On this page, there have been many recent notes about similar looking photos being deleted (or nominated at the time).

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:07, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
 * 岸信介拜會嚴家淦院長(朱正祺攝).jpg

List of prime ministers of Japan by length of tenure to new article
I believe this should be its own page, as this is the case in several other nation's heads of state & governments, notably the United Kingdom and the United States. Anime King 🎌 (💬) 12:21, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree; there's a lot of list pages like that for other countries. Axedel (talk) 01:12, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

In fact, Japan is the only G7 nation without such a page. There should definitely be a page. Plumber (talk) 01:03, 17 March 2024 (UTC)