Talk:List of radio stations in Vermont

Arrangement/Organization
Am I the only one who thinks that the stations should be arranged in order according to frequency, rather than alphabetically by call sign? HammerHeadHuman 04:33, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Removed Apparent Promotional Advert
Stated purpose for article is "The following is a list of FCC-licensed radio stations in the U.S. state of Vermont, which can be sorted by their call signs, frequencies, cities of license, licensees, and programming formats."

Coincidentally, the creator of the online section, 68.114.58.35, added ChessManiac.com ref to a chess article, similarly promotional, four days later. FreeVermontRadio.com and ChessManiac.com are owned by Dennis Steele who has a history of self-promotional/COI activity on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TR05401 (talk • contribs) 02:37, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

History section
Just a few thoughts: Mlaffs (talk) 20:40, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The lead text on the page is "The following is a list of FCC-licensed radio stations in the U.S. state of Vermont...". While it was at one time, WHNV WNHV is not currently an FCC-licensed radio station. It doesn't fit within the stated purpose of the list.
 * As the navbox at the bottom of the page shows, this list is one of a series of 52 pages (for the 50 states, Washington, D.C., and the U.S. territories). As a series, it's important that there's consistency in content and formatting from page to page. None of those 51 other pages has a history section and, to my knowledge, none of them ever had. In fact, the histories of those pages will show a series of editors regularly editing entries for stations out of the lists when their licenses are cancelled.
 * If there were to be a history section, it would need to include links to WHWB, WRUT, WTBC, WVVT, WXCP WVVT, and some 16 low-power FM stations, and that's just taking into account stations that have had their licenses cancelled since 1980.


 * Well, what if it were a list of dinosaurs? :)
 * There's no other place for the information. My gripe is that this is merely a promotional page (WP:SPAM) for radio stations unless it provides information that the station or (previous) owner would rather keep quiet. I'm not looking for a "worst moments" here, just a little reality. Some stations make it. Some don't. Why should stations (or any other recorded) "current" information just disappear? If it's important enough to be here in the first place, it's important enough to be here when something out of the routine/ordinary happens. Wikipedia is not an almanac. This page is almanac-ky without the addition of some redeeming feature besides a mere spam list of radio stations.
 * For the record, they still have an article. Except for cross-pointing to each other, there are few real other links to it. (A poor reason to keep an link here, I agree, but a great reason to delete the article. i.e. Selective memory again - if successful, we keep it. If unsuccessful, we never heard of it!)
 * Thanks for discussing it! Student7 (talk) 23:56, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, if radio ever becomes extinct, then we'll have an interesting parallel to discuss. OTOH, if someone wanted to create a list that started with "The following is a list of dinosaurs in the U.S. state of Vermont...", then it'd be empty (or, depending on their politics, only include Bernie Sanders - heyo!).
 * As for my willingness to discuss, well, I'm a big believer in BRD. In fact, as an admin, I feel it's even more of an obligation on my part to go about things the right way. I'm also not unsympathetic to your position. FWIW, the similar list pages for television stations by state each have a "Defunct" section. It's just never been done that way on the radio side.
 * Final two points before I open it up to the world. First, the dearth of incoming links isn't exactly unusual for radio station articles. It's an insular little corner of the site, which is one of the reasons why it's so important that people populate and use the market/format/owner navboxes, include sister stations, and populate the by state/by call sign/by frequency lists. Second, even given that, radio station articles for both licensed and formerly-licensed stations have historically fared very well at AfD. Highly unlikely that the article would get deleted, even with the license cancellation. In fact, if there were sexy enough reasons why the license was cancelled and one of our resident content whizzes fleshes the article out enough, I'd almost guarantee it.
 * Okay, I've said my piece. I'm going to publish this discussion at the talk page for the Radio Stations Project, as they're the main universe that'll care enough to contribute. Mlaffs (talk) 01:10, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd like to say that I'm in favor of some method of retaining callsign history, though I'm not sure what the best way would be. I joined the Radio Stations Project when I discovered that the callsign of a station I once worked at (KCIN) had a page. However, it's currently listed as located in Cedar City, Utah, although when I worked at a station using that callsign it was located in Victorville, California (late 1960s). What's not clear to me is how to preserve such history. There is a callsign history for the current KCIN page, but that seems to be connected to the physical antenna location (it lists previous different callsigns, but not previous physical locations for the same callsign).
 * Of course, such lists could easily get out of hand. For instance, the defunct stations list for media-heavy states like California or New York could easily be larger than a list of current stations.
 * What makes matters worse is how callsigns dance around the US, making it very difficult to know how to record the history of a single callsign (ownership/location changes, sister stations, notable events the callsign was involved with, notable personalities associated with a callsign at a specific time/location, etc.).
 * I noticed on the page for Los Angeles radio station KHJ that there is a history section titled "Other KHJs." Perhaps that is another approach? Wrk3 (talk) 20:35, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * You have a point about the reuse of call signs. I guess the old one would then have to be disambiguated with a place or date or something.
 * And growing too large. A fork would then be in order I think to the former stations. Student7 (talk) 18:58, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

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