Talk:List of rampage killers/Archive 3

Taking ownership of content
User Elhiggins seems to be persistently resistant to allowing me to make any changes which they deem to not fit the "criteria." I added an incident which quite obviously fit the fourth criteria for the "Other" section of the page; the Connellan air disaster of 1977. It meets the criteria of having at least two deaths. I've attempted to reason with this user on numerous occasions, but they don't respond to messages I leave on their talk page. At one point I clarified the currently ambiguous and erroneous criteria guidelines for the page, but this user continuously reverts all of my edits and keeps denying the clear cut facts. How is an editor supposed to help contribute to the page when another editor is taking ownership of the content? --Undescribed (talk) 03:59, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Forman does not meet the victim threshold to be included here. It was determined through consensus that massacres with less than six dead should only be included if they have at least ten overall victims, (5 dead + 5 injured, or 4 dead + 6 injured), that massacres with less than four dead should only be included if they have at least a dozen overall victims, (3 dead + 9 injured, or 2 dead + 10 injured) and that massacres with less than two people dead should not be included at all. I support these guidelines as it prevents the article from becoming too bloated with to many small cases, even if the guidelines are somewhat arbitrary. Forman falls two injured victims below the threshold to be included and was removed for that reason. Please do not go around removing cases willy-nilly from every page to make a WP:POINT. -- Millionsandbillions (talk) 17:55, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean to give you the impression that I was removing cases Willy-nilly. The guidelines clearly state that only one of the four conditions mentioned need to be met in order to be included. I already knew that it didn't meet the first three conditions, but it does meet the fourth condition of having at least two deaths. I revised the way the guidelines were worded to remove the ambiguity of the guidelines, and removed the incidents which clearly don't fit the criteria; based on how they are currently worded. The way you just explained the criteria makes much more sense than the way it is currently worded in the article. All I can do is propose that the guidelines be reworded so that other editors don't get confused in the future about the criteria the way that I did. Every edit that I ever make is in the best interest of Wikipedia. -Cheers --Undescribed (talk) 22:16, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I've rewritten the guidelines so hopefully now they are less ambiguous. -- Millionsandbillions (talk) 18:16, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Incongruity of separate article choices
I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this, but I can't think of anywhere better right now. To put it bluntly: there is no good reason that, say, Cho Seung-hui should have his own article but Adam Lanza should not. Virginia Tech and Sandy Hook were of equal national importance; it is irrelevant that Cho killed five more people when it comes to giving him his own article, especially since others such as Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold also have their own article. We should either give Lanza an article, or merge the article for Cho/Harris and Klebold/other notable killers into the main page. Each event/perpetrator should be judged by the same criteria when it comes to this. --SaucyJimmy (talk) 15:13, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

David Burke
Shouldn't he be moved to the americas section? He also shot people with a gun prior to the crash. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elhiggins (talk • contribs) 22:23, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

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External links modified
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Baghizev
Number 12 on the European section is a Russian border guard who killed ten people, i added the case, specifying that the soldier was not named in the source. Another anonymous user edited the article, saying that his name is Baghizev, but the available sources don't mention a name, and the user didn't provide any sources.
 * The name was most likely subtle vandalism. I've removed it and restored the original wording. -- Millionsandbillions (talk) 18:30, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Why are mass shootings separated from other mass killings?
The title of this article is, "List of rampage killers," not "list of rampage shooters." There seems no logical reason to exclude non-shootings from the main lists.

There also seems no good reason to exclude school massacres, workplace killings, religious or political killings, or familicides.

I suggest it would be more accurate to have comprehensive lists by continent. Separate lists by location, weapon, motivation, etc. should be listed afterward. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kjefferson (talk • contribs) 20:45, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

I am not sure what you are talking about. Shootings are not separated. Elhiggins

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Dnipropetrovsk Maniacs
This "spree" took place over a period of three weeks. None of the other rampages lasted this long. Removing it from the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.68.197.141 (talk) 14:15, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * John Mohammed and Lee Malvo went on a spree that lasted four weeks, Shao Jiangbin and Geng Xuejie went on a spree that lasted three weeks, so yes other rampages have lasted as long. Reinstating it. -- Millionsandbillions (talk) 14:56, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Mohammed and Malvo were not on a "rampage" either, and should not be on this list.  Their erroneous inclusion here is not much of an excuse for other erroneous inclusions.Lathamibird (talk) 17:16, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article on the Dnipropretrobsk maniacs refers them serial killers, not rampage killers. []. The other two examples you listed, plus Wu Yuansong and Kalinga Boli should also be removed from the list as they clearly had "cooling off periods" between the killings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.68.221.193 (talk) 16:30, 7 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The maniacs killings have enough of a cooling off period to be described as a serial killing. They weren't anything like a continuous rampage, so I can't support listing them here.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 06:37, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

The term "rampage killer" can refer to both mass murderers and spree killers. This article does not just list mass murderers (those who killed many in a single episode) but also lists spree killers (those who killed many over many locations) In fact this list was originally called List of mass murderers and spree killers before being moved in 2011 as a result of this discussion. One of the definitions given on the Wikipedia article for "spree killer" is "the killing of three or more people within a 30-day period" and Sayenko and Suprunyuk meet that definition. Also the spree killer article states that there is oftentimes a controversy over whether a criminal is a spree killer or a serial killer, mentioning Richard Chase and Andrew Cunanan specifically as criminals who have been debated which category they fall under. -- Millionsandbillions (talk) 22:42, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Merge request
By analogy to WP:OCMISC for categories, we shouldn't spin out lists of entries that don't fit into other sub-lists by type of incident. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 04:10, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * List of rampage killers (other incidents) → List of rampage killers
 * List of rampage killers (other incidents in China) → List of rampage killers (China)

Europe's current #1 (Unknown - May 3, 1583 @ Beselick) seems questionable. Might need a correction or removed from this section entirely. Could use a another source or a different source entirely; the page that the current source's footnote link takes you to does not seem to have a corresponding entry for the year 1583 (its entry for Baselick is for 1584). This link amok.fandom.com/wiki/Beselick_amok_case says "the story is unverified, and the exact location of Beselick is not known, since there is no available information that would prove that a town of that name exists, or has existed" (its sources seem to confirm the alleged date though). Even if true, I wonder if this incident would still belong here, since the killer really only murdered one person (his father)...everyone else that died on this guy's way to the top of the list was sort of a happy accident, killed by the fire he set to conceal that one murder. Not very "rampage-y." Is there an "unintentional mass murderers" category? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.103.127.71 (talk) 04:49, 8 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Support - Seems reasonable. Love of Corey (talk) 06:15, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Klbrain (talk) 10:22, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Missing cases
The following three incidents which meet the criteria are not listed (or at least I can't find them): 2011 Minsk Metro bombing (a rather glaring omission), Rochester shooting and the recent familicide in Iran. Is there any particular reason why they are not on the list or can I add them? TVShowFan122 (talk) 19:56, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

2011 Minsk Metro bombing has two attackers, and for Other incidents cases with only one attacker are allowed. Rochester shooting:I read about this case and did not add it because there is a lot of incomprehensible, well, no one else added it to the list. recent familicide in Iran: you can add it to the list, this case fully meets the criteria of this list.