Talk:List of revolutions and rebellions

TODO
José San Martin 15:50, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 * format this list like List of coups d'état and coups attempts.
 * write clear and meaningful texts for each item
 * identify each revolution with its own article and link them]
 * when two revolutions occured in the same year, sort them by date.


 * It would be very helpful to distinguish between successful, unsuccessful, and ongoing. -- Beland (talk) 19:53, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

What about Rome?
I just don't get it: Why does nobody count the expulsion of Tarquinius Superbus and the establishment of the Roman Republic 5xx BC as a revolution? I mean, there are a lot of criteria fulfilled (Political change, social change, even violence). I can't understand at all why it's no revolution??!


 * It is now. 86.212.53.106 (talk) 18:42, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Saffron Revolution
So far, there's just been anti-government protests - you'd be hard pushed to call it a rebellion (so far at least) and certainly not a revolution. I don't think this should be listed. Phonemonkey 10:43, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

A bit of cleanup
I cleaned up the style a bit, and added the following comment to the page, after the visible text "This is a list of revolutions and rebellions": ''Meaning, it is not meant to include every instance of every category of violent conflict. Do not add conflicts and wars that are not connected to a revolution or rebellion. Do not add "revolutions" mandated from above. Maintain a sense of proportion: do not add every riot and violent demonstration in the history of mandkind, and do not accord recent events overdue weight. Note there is a section at the end, "Cultural, intellectual, philosophical and technological revolutions", which does list some significant events, phenomena, or trends that are not violent rebellions or revolutions. (Whether it really belongs in this article is another question.)''

I removed some entries which I thought did not belong here, as per this comment. I also removed some excess verbiage where the details are described in separate articles that are linked to from the item in question.

I also started to standardise the verbs to the past tense, changing some instances of the present tense, but didn't have the energy to go through the whole article. Teemu Leisti (talk) 00:30, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

For the October 1917 revolution in Russia it states currently that this led to the "establishment of the Soviet Union", this is a common error - the USSR was not founded in 1917 - I believe it was not until 1921/1922 that the USSR become officially the name of the federation of nations. If I am correct, it should say that the "October 1917 revolution led to the establishment of the Russian Soviet Republic" - SJ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.69.2.252 (talk) 21:36, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Total Revolutions: 430
in case anybody was wondering The LMOE (talk) 16:06, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Preemtive
"2009 Iran on the verge to revolution, a revolt by Iranian civilians grouped in millions, currently under attack by their recently acclaimed leader, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad" I think this is jumping the gun a little bit - though we can only hope.--J intela (talk) 05:38, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Protests/rebellions
An editor recently deleted:
 * 2008:  Mass protests following the 2008 Armenian presidential election against alleged electoral fraud and in support of opposition candidate Levon Ter-Petrossian.
 * 2009: Mass protests following the 2009 Iranian presidential election against alleged electoral fraud and in support of opposition candidate Mir-Hossein Mousavi

Since they are protests, not rebellions. By the same logic, should we delete:


 * 2007–2008: Anti-government food riots in many countries across the world.
 * 1989: The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 were a series of demonstrations led by students, intellectuals and labour activists in the People's Republic of China between 15 April and 4 June 1989.

slanted towards recent events?
I see no discussion section on the subject, so I removed the tag.--Work permit (talk) 03:24, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Victory of Vietnam Revolution Against the US
Although Ho Chi Minh's "August Revolution" of 1945 is listed, the ultimate victory of the Vietnamese Revolution in 1975 is not. Also, the Vietnamese Communist Revolution began in the 30s, with the formation of a revolutionary workers' party in Vietnam, and the Indochina Communist Party about the same time. This is one of the most remarkable revolutions of all history; it introduced a new (and unanswerable) form of warfare, and defeated three major powers: France, the US, and (afterward) China. It is one of the most-important revolutions in history, and deserves deep study and expositon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.224.96.234 (talk) 09:22, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Move cultural revolutions to a separate page
I'm moving the list of cultural revolutions to a new page, because the content is completely different and unrelated to political revolutions. Andrew Keenan Richardson 21:18, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

That rebellion on Rhode Island...
Shouldn't the post-revolutionary war rebellion that took place in Rhode Island be included? I believe it was motivated by soldiers' depths.

Colonial rebellions are also entirely absent.

Henners91 (talk) 10:00, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Shays' Rebellion in Massachusetts involved debts and soldiers, and is already listed. I just added Dorr Rebellion, which took place in Rhode Island and involved voting rights. -- Beland (talk) 06:42, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Arab spring should be listed under 2011
Although the Arab spring began in December 2010 with Tunisia it is confusing to list all other events under 2010 when I first looked at this page I thought the Arab spring was not on it as I looked under 2011 it took me a moment to scan up to 2010. It is a minor issue and I am not sure how best to fix it though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bazzawill (talk • contribs) 06:25, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

2014 Ferguson unrest
Should we include the Ferguson unrest/protests into the list? I have already added a few I knew belonged in this list (almost all Congo rebellions and conflicts) but am hesitating to add Ferguson. I feel like it would be taken off the list as soon as I put it up. Does it belong on this list?

Replaceinkcartridges (talk) 07:29, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

After thinking about it, I decided to put it on the page. If anyone feels it doesn't belong on the page you can take it off.

Replaceinkcartridges (talk) 09:28, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

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Second Italo - Ethiopian War
As the main article states, it did not consist of the overthrew of Italian colonization but of the annexation of Ethiopia by the Kingdom of Italy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.31.227.3 (talk) 10:14, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

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Proposal to split this article into two: one for revolutions and one for rebellions
I think that revolutions and rebellions are distinct enough that this article should be split into two list articles. At times, the distinction between the two may be a fine one, but, to quote Wikipedia, revolution "is a fundamental and relatively sudden change in political power and political organization which occurs when the population revolts against the government" (my bolding). Rebellions sometimes lead to revolution, and their participants may aim for revolution, but actual revolution is much less common than rebellion. 107.2.89.199 (talk) 17:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I think since this is a pretty important list we have to put it on the MILHIST talk page for futher comments and we really need clean up all those protests who are not called revolutions by RSs. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 16:20, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * FTR, that was done on 17 Nov 2020 (Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history/Archive_158). -- Beland (talk) 21:23, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose. I see where the proposer is coming from, but even their definitions do not separate the two and it seems to be setting up endless rounds of Wiki-lawering. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:42, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Support I think that one can distinguish between successful revolutions and unsuccessful rebellions. If the rebellion is successful in hindsight it is usually called revolution. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  17:12, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment Keeping one list, we could simply list whether the rebellion or attempted revolution was successful. If we have two lists, does that amount to one list for successful rebellions and one list for unsuccessful, or would the "rebellions" list include all revolutions? -- Beland (talk) 07:05, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Thinking more about the line-drawing problem, I'm going to oppose this for now. Given the lack of consensus, I'm going to change the split-proposed tag into a cleanup tag asking to continue the work making a table that indicates whether the rebellion/revolution was successful. -- Beland (talk) 21:23, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

NPOV issue - it's wrong to call protests revolutions or rebellions - these are considered as treason in some countries
Doug Weller talk 17:51, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

How would you draw the distinction between protests and rebellions? I went through the items on this list which have "protest" in the title, and some of them involve shutting down government buildings, which seems rebellious. The 2020 Malian protests resulted in the 2020 Mali coup, though these have different articles. Some involve strikes, civil disobedience, rioting, damage to government property, and damage to private property in defiance of the law. Three at the relatively peaceful end include: 1. 2016–2017 South Korean protests which involved an attack on the Supreme Prosecutors' Office and several injured police. 2. 2018 Jordanian protests involved widespread strikes and blocking streets. 3. End SARS blocked streets.

I agree that a protest which is peaceful and does not engage in any civil disobedience probably doesn't belong on this list. I'm curious if you see any that fall into that category, or if you would advocate for stricter inclusion criteria? -- Beland (talk) 07:03, 7 January 2021 (UTC)


 * {{re|Beland]] I can't see the Civil Rights Movement as a revolution or rebellion - do you think describing . Illegal activities aren't either, even if they involve damage to government buildings. I'd argue that in democratic countries we probably have to differentiate between activities aimed at changing government actions and those meant to overthrow the government by force rather than voting. But that's just my opinion. The word "rebellion" has more than one meaning. The Watts riots have also been called the Watts Rebellion and there's a book called Race, Reform and Rebellion: The Second Reconstruction in Black America. Doug Weller  talk 07:26, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The Watts Rebellion was part of the civil rights movement, according to that article, so though the movement was generally peaceful, it appears it was not entirely so. rebellion gives three definitions - 1. Armed resistance to an established government or ruler. 2. Defiance of authority or control; the act of rebelling. 3. An organized, forceful subversion of the law of the land in an attempt to replace it with another form of government. I'd agree the civil rights movement, for example, does not meet definition 3, because it was aiming for reform and not replacing the form of government, but it does seem to meet definition 1. I'd agree definition 2 is probably too inclusive for this list, since that include things like getting a tattoo against your parents' wishes. I would support "distinguishing" between 1 and 3 by say, adding a table column that gives the goal of the rebellion. Though the one-line summaries in the list usually do that already. I don't think it would be a good idea to "distinguish" the two by excluding definition 1 entirely. That would make this list more or less the same as List of coups and coup attempts. I think it's useful to see attempts to change policy by force even if that doesn't include a change in government. -- Beland (talk) 21:17, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

This page is a mess
For example, the 2010s and 2020s sections are full of all kinds of protests, although few of them are called "revolution" or "rebellion" in WP:RS. Earlier sections may be a bit better, but they contain lots of coups and military conflicts which are also generally not described as "revolution" or "rebellion". To correctly describe its current content, the article would have to be renamed to List of protests, rebellions, revolutions, coups and insurgencies – which clearly shows that the topic is ill-defined and much too broad. If we want to keep the current title, we'd have to agree on a reasonably tight definition of "revolution" or "rebellion" and delete everything that doesn't fit. (For example, we could include only events for which WP:RS regularly use these terms. But of course, there are many other possible criteria.) — Chrisahn (talk) 21:28, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * How would it be possible, for example, for a coup to not be a rebellion? Taking over the government by force...seems like the textbook definition of rebellion against the government? -- Beland (talk) 07:34, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's often not easy to distinguish coups, rebellions, revolutions, protests, etc., but we should try to draw the line somewhere. At the moment, we seem to include anything that looked remotely like a rebellion to someone. Examples: We include several campaigns by the IRA - I see no reasons (i.e. reasonably well-defined criteria) why we shouldn't also include campaigns by the ETA, BR, RAF, etc. More examples: The word "war" occurs almost 200 times in the list. Hardly anyone would call the Mexican drug war, the Second Congo War or many other wars "revolutions" or "rebellions", and yet they are on the list. Sure, I could remove some of the most egregious examples, but that would feel like a drop in the ocean. To keep the list manageable and useful in the long run, we'd need reasonably clear inclusion/exclusion criteria. But unfortunately, I don't have the time and energy to come up with such criteria on my own. Maybe my nagging and whining will motivate someone to do the work... :-) Until then, I'm afraid this list will remain a free-for-all. :-( — Chrisahn (talk) 01:47, 25 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Well, I was trying to help, taking it one piece at a time. So, would you agree that every coup is also a rebellion, or could you give an example of a coup that is not a rebellion and explain why? --  Beland (talk) 01:55, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * No, I can't, off the top of my head, but that's not really my point. Anyway, in the same vein: Can you give an example of a civil war, a military uprising, a terrorist campaign or a violent (or otherwise intense) protest that isn't also a rebellion? My point is: It's difficult to distinguish these things, but it's not impossible. We could come up with criteria that would keep the list focused. As long as we don't, the page will be a list of revolutions, rebellions, protests, coup d'etats, civil wars, military uprisings, terrorist campaigns... anything goes. :-) — Chrisahn (talk) 02:08, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I added a importance section template to the 2020s section because it seems to consist entirely of ongoing protests. I think the easy way to solve this would be by finding if these protests/coups/insurgencies/etc. have been described as a "revolution" or a "rebellion" in a reliable source. If they have, then the citation should be added, if they haven't, then the addition should be removed until such sources can be found. --Grnrchst (talk) 17:13, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Split into protests list
A split into protests that do not include armed violence by demonstrators, specially in the 20th and 21th century, could help to improve the length of the article, its neutrality, and address several of the concerns named in the past. Additionally, it is an easier distinction to draw between "revolutions" and "rebellions". --NoonIcarus (talk) 11:08, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
 * There is already a List of protests in the 21st century that could function for moving over any relevant protests.--Grnrchst (talk) 14:04, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Revolutions of 1917–1923
Shouldn't the Revolutions of 1917–1923 be added as the main article for the 1910s sublist? Just like the Atlantic Revolutions and the Decolonization of the Americas? DamagedKnight (talk) 05:17, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned references in List of revolutions and rebellions
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of revolutions and rebellions's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "CIA": From Soviet Union:  From Ecuador:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT ⚡ 17:02, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Desperately needs splitting
This article is barely functional, and has a reference section that looks like someone just @#&£ all over it. It appears that content has been mass copied into it without thought of fixing any of the errors. At this point WP:TNT may well apply. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 13:51, 22 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I've boldly mass reverted to the version of the article from 17 October 2023. Even that version is overlong, but at least it doesn't have some many issues. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 13:55, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Having a complete list of everything in a single article isn't going to work. It blows past what the maximum technical limit of an article should be. Instead this article should have links to other articles that list certain periods of history. Those articles would need to be referenced correctly, if there are large red error messages you've missed something. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 13:59, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * For reference my revert was 278k in size, the suggest article limit is 60k. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 14:00, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Protests
Why are protests included in a list about revolutions, rebellions, and insurrections? They're not the same thing. Gvssy (talk) 23:25, 6 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Seconding this, theres a bunch of protests in here that probably should be removed Sunnyediting99 (talk) 14:51, 3 June 2024 (UTC)