Talk:List of rivers of British Columbia

Cleanup?
What needs to be cleaned up?--Anchoress 00:21, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * This is an old tag. The article has been substantially improved since I first saw it.  Perhaps the alphabetized rivers could be edited to include all the rivers on the page.  Personally, I think it can go, since people's ctrl-F feature will find whatever river they're looking for. Fishhead64 19:08, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Sample table for coordinating river entries
This is from a draft Wikiproject on BC, but it's a useful tool and like other such tables is too large to have on the main project page; the table is meant to be complete, including redlinks, though there's some major rivers missing and lots of major creeks; I built it from memory. This is a working table; if you've reviewed/seen a river article, please leave your input here, and your thoughts on what's still needed, and sign ( ~ ) your comments in the appropriate column. Seems like the best way to intercoordinate format/content, and what still needs making /editing. See 2nd table below this one for colour codes/formatSkookum1 08:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Rivers & Streams
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Where does this river go?
Clearwater River (British Columbia). I can't figure out the structure. --Usgnus 06:15, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I know it intimately, map-wise, as I plotted a ~1 km point-line of all the rivers and lakes in BC (!!!!) for the Canadian Mountain Encyclopedia; took me months, and I'm FAST. Anyway, the article says it starts at Mahood Lake - it doesn't. The latlong pinpoint of the toe of the glacier which feeds its main stream is at 52° 48' 11" N, 120° 5' 4", about 9km SSE of Mt Pierrway. As for Mahood Lake, it's drained by the Mahood River (where Mahood Falls is), which is only about 5km long and joins the Clearwater just below where the Murtle-Clearwater confluence is. I have no idea why the creator of the article described it as coming from Mahood Lake; for all I know they read a government tourism or parks brochure - which are often wildly inaccurate, being written by bureaucrats in distant towns/cities as they often are....Skookum1 07:59, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey! I wrote that article. :-) --Usgnus 15:49, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the snipe; I'm serious about bad info on govt brochures; BC Hydro's website on the Seton Lake Recreation Site claims that it's overlooked by the Chilcotin Ranges; yet there's a debate as to whether even the Camelsfoot Range are part of the Chilcotin Ranges or the Interior Plateau; such that in either case, both they and the Shulaps Range - which is in the Chilcotin Ranges - are behind the mountain overlooking the lake on the north side, Mission Ridge. Reason for this I'm guessing is that "Chilcotin" has brand recognition, while "Lillooet" itself doesn't; and such brochures are written in Burnaby by people who don't even know how to read maps.  Or books, as I've often noticed on BC-govt history/tourism websites, and on crappy Digital Collections materials (those are federal money given to amateur writers).  Makes it ugly when people use stuff for cites; not saying you did, just that's why I sniped.Skookum1 16:34, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

And sorry, source for the latlong given is from BC Basemap http://maps.gov.bc.ca/imf50/imf.jsp?site=bc_basemap' Instructions on how-to-use if you want another time; also try the Land and Resource Warehouse Catalogue which is on the same http://maps.gov.bc.ca page. "Find Location" is a handy tool, of course. Good clue is that viewability of river names is best in the 1:30,000 range and again in the 1:150,000 range, depending on the script/typface on each item.Skookum1 16:27, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I see what you were asking now; it wasn't on the tree-list on the main article; just added it, plus the Mahood, Azure and Murtle.Skookum1 16:36, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --Usgnus 15:49, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Nicomekl
I made a Nicomekl River article, but I have no idea where it would fit in this list. Can someone add it in for me? Thanks. -- TheMightyQuill 22:24, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Added to Strait of Georgia watershed (Puget Sound is part of the Strait of Georgia). --Qyd 01:39, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Different lists of Skeena River tributaries
There seems to be different lists with tributaries for the Skeena. First, there is the Skeena River article itself. Then there is the List of rivers of the Americas, which I populated based on the Skeena River article. Then there is the List of British Columbia rivers, which says the Skeena is the in Marcus Passage Watershed, and mentions the McNeil River as a tributary. I'm a bit skeptical of the Marcus Passage and McNeil River information. I'm comfortable that the list of tributaries in the Skeena article is correct based on the reference, but it may still be incomplete if other tribuataries don't have Chinook salmon (which was the focus of the reference information). If anyone knows how to improve and correctly align the various lists, please do so. Deet 19:08, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, I don't think that Lakelse Lake is connected to the Bulkley River. Deet (talk) 18:50, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, definitely not. Marcus Passage is the name of the saltchuck off the Skeena estuary; the McNeil or McNeill River, though, I can't find in BC Basemap - maybe McNeil Creek?  The BC Rivers list is probably the more accurate of the two, sez he who expanded/edited it, though not so much the North Coast rivers as elsewhere...; but I'll compare and contrast and see what's missing or in need of rearrangement.Skookum1 (talk) 19:37, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

New Fraser tribs cat
I just made Category:Tributaries of the Fraser River; it's surprising to see how few there are, so far anyway - the Rausch River and McGregor River in the Robson Valley area are still yet to be written, likewise Nahatlatch River and Seton River. One thing that occurred to me is that items like Churn Creek and Ruby Creek and Emory Creek all redirect to provincial park articles currently, which was done for expediecne and I guess should have been. Also, some like ..... Williams Creek? - which connects Williams Lake (the lake) to the Fraser, is so short I hadn't though of adding it; it's really the San Jose River, which begins up by 100 Mile and includes Lac La Hache in its system. A few other minor ones are out there - Pavilion Creek, Fountain Creek are notable for various reasons, Watson Bar Creek and French Bar Creek I'm not sure are worth it; Dog Creek because of the community-name should have a sep article and so on. I just recalled that I didn't put the new cat on the West Road so I'll go do that now; if anyone can see something I've missed - please add it. I'm wondering, given all the rivers and creeks in the Fraser watershed, if Category:Rivers of the Fraser River basin might be a worthwhile cat; although in some cases like the Thompson and Nechako a tributaries subcat for those rivers would take a lot of pressure off the concept....Skookum1 (talk) 19:45, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

New Tributaries added for the Columbia River
Yo Wassup Everyone?

Well, I just got a bunch of new maps & I found several rivers on it that are not, as far as im concerned, even mentioned on Wikipedia. Not Anymore! First of all, I added the small Templeton River on the list & then made an article on it. I also added a laundry load of rivers, all of which are part of the Kicking Horse River watershed, onto the list. I plan on writing doing articles for them too as well as doing some big time improvements to the Yoho River page. I did a little house-cleanin on the Kicking Horse River page as well.

Alrite c u all lata I gotta add the finishing touches to the Yoho River page. It should be on wikipedia, updated & all, within an hour from when I posted this.

Later

AndrewEnns (talk) 3:06, 01 May 2009 (UTC)

Horsethief Creek & Forster Creek
Hello Everyone

I'm gonna add Horsethief Creek (the creek that drains Lake of the Hanging Glacier) & Forster Creek to the list. Both are tributaries of the Columbia River & both are significant enough to have an article created about them. If someone could do that, that would be great.

Gnite

AndrewEnns (talk) 05:27, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * One article begets another; I looked up Horsethief Creek in BCGNIS and found this item on Ta Ta Creek, which you should read. There are hosts of creek articles in need of making; I suggest you use BCGNIS and use some creek-stub articles as templates to start the basic outline, and use Basemap (google Basemap Online Store) and its measure tools for distance/area to derive extra info.....also note List of tributaries of the Columbia River to add these to.Skookum1 (talk) 15:18, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Geez, there is a lot of info on that page but it sure is interesting lol. Anyhow, it does not appear as tho anyone else wants to do these articles so when I get time I will do them. As for putting it on List of tributaries of the Columbia River, someone plz do that for me since I have no clue where in the world to put it in that article.

AndrewEnns (talk) 16:13, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Lists of tributaries, whether stand-alone or within other articles such as this list, are always listed in sequence from the headwaters on down; so put them in between whatever's upstream, and whatever's downstream. The reason I showed you Ta Ta Creek is because of the history attached to Horsethief Creek, i.e. that because of the shared history, it implies all the other creeks should have articles too, as they're all named after the same guy/event.  I have so many articles backed up that if I do other people's I'll never get at "mine"; it's jsut with your interest in rivers/creeks/lakes you should learn how to do it; others will provide infoboxes and such so long as you add WP:Lakes/WP:Rivers on their talkpages.  Stubs don't have to be anything more than a sentence or two; use BCGNIS to get the coords and look at other similar articles in the same region to see what categories can be used.  I'll give what help and advice I can, and tweak articles you make, but Im already drowning in wikiwork of various kinds (and other writing outside Wikipedia).  Just use another river/creek in the area and adapt the wording, you'll do fine.....Skookum1 (talk) 19:53, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * What I will do is do the bio for [Norman "Red" McLeod, since I'm into history stuff and I happen to be in Nova Scotia, where there's lots of McLeods and who knows maybe I can find something about him on this end. I'll redlink all the creeks and other placenames named in association with the incident (for the stub I'll mostly be blockquoting the material in the BCGNIS, which is public domain just so's you know in future; often book and magazine references are included, and also citable/should be cited if used).  To this day I don't think Tobacoo Plains has an article, for instance, although it's a landform and community and not a creek or lake; I'll post those redlinks here for you once I'm done, i.e. the creeks, lakes and such....Skookum1 (talk) 20:05, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Just one comment: You might want to make the page title Horsethief Creek (British Columbia) because I think there is also a "Horsethief Creek" in California, near where I live... However, there is also no Wikipedia article on it so should be fine for now, as the California one is not an important creek, as far as I know. themaee  talk  20:45, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Skookum, Lists of tributaries ... are always listed in sequence from the headwaters on down. Actually, the order on the page List of tributaries of the Columbia River is from the mouth up. Pfly (talk) 03:34, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Marron River
Good evenin homies!

Well, I got to hit the hay soon, however, while fooling around on the basemap which Skookum1 told me about and gave me a link to, (I have the link to it at the bottom of my talk page, in case anyone wants to use it or is wondering why there is a link at the bottom of my talk page) I stumbled across the Marron River, which starts in Aeneas Lake, a small desert lake west of Skaha Lake and flows southeast to enter Skaha Lake just above Skaha's outlet... wait a second...    hold on, the river enters a small (unnamed) lake at 49.36361°N, -119.60139°W at an elevation of 1421 feet (473 m) that is located just west of Skaha. The lake has...  no outlet? Uh-huh, just as I thought, it has no outlet. Or at least not one that is visible to anyone. It must have some underwater outlet. COOL! Geez, I had some articles I wanted to creat up north, however, I can't wait to get an article on this one started. Tommorow I'll do some research & then I'll get creatin...   btw, here is the BCGNIS page on it: Marron River (note the BCGNIS page says it flows towards Skaha Lake, not into it).

Whats is so funny is that I also had Google Earth open and every time I looked at the terrian between the little lake & Skaha Lake I kept thinking "geez, I don't see any water there, is it possible it goes underground after entering the lake". Then I looked on the basemap and saw that there was no line between the two lakes and realized I was right. Well, most people would consider cruisin around maps boring, but I don't see it that way, especially when u come across stuff like this.

If anyone has some good info on the river, post it either here or on my talk page cuz I'd love to hear it. I can't wait till' tommorrow when I can start thsi article.

AndrewEnns (talk) 06:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Lakes?
I looked over the page and noticed that there's a lot of lakes included in it. Is it that the river/creek is named after the lake, or is it just the lake feeding the waterway? Because this page is called List of rivers of British Columbia, not List of lakes of British Columbia. Why would so many lakes be included? Shannon1 talk   contribs  04:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Because, as I added to the lede, they are "in line" in the course of the river(s); in order to show all the rivers in each drainage it would not make sense to have (for example):

The only way that section makes sense is if the intermediary lakes are included; the same is true of Shuswap River->Mabel Lake->Shuswap River->Mara Lake->Sicamous Narrows->Shuswap Lake->Little River=>Little Shuswap Lake->South Thompson River. In some cases the "head lake" is included, such as Troitsa Lake but that, also, has tributary streams that could be added; Entiako River could not be included if the intermediary "lakes" and arms and reaches of the Nechako Reservoir were not included.Skookum1 (talk) 14:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Middle River
 * Tachie River
 * Stuart River
 * So this is like, if you were to make a list of tributaries of the Mississippi River, you would include Lake Pepin because it is an instream lake. I think I get it now, but there are a lot of lakes that are put in this order:
 * Example river
 * Example river
 * Example lake
 * Shannon1 talk   contribs  04:35, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * yeah, but Powell Lake for instance did not have (?) its major feeder stream in place yet (I just added them, including the main length of the Powell River, which needs to be made from a redirect to the city into a river article); see below about using italics to distinguish the lakes; I've made some examples in the list but dno't have time for them all...NB there isn't a List of Lakes yet.....Skookum1 (talk) 12:54, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Tell you guys what, to make it less confusing (I've been confused about this too, Shannon1 isn't the only one) I'm going to make all the lakes on here bold. That way everyone will be able to make out the difference between a river & lake. Regards AndrewEnns (talk) 04:45, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I see the point, but why don't you use italics instead? that would have less of a visual impact in terms of highlighting and is more MOS-friendly.Skookum1 (talk) 12:52, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * K; italics it is! AndrewEnns (talk) 05:35, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Redundantness
I now can understand putting lakes on here but putting rivers on here twice like it was done with the Shuswap River seems redundant. I am totally aware the Shuswap starts above Sugar Lake & not in it but having the Shuswap River written twice (once above Mara Lake & once above Sugar) seems totally redundant, especially since there are no major tribtaries of the Shuswap above Sugar Lake that would be Wikipedia material.
 * Don't be so sure - Joss Creek and Tsuius Creek may have mining and exploration histories, even settler histories; Cherry Creek certainly does though I haven't gotten around to Cherry Creek Gold Rush yet (it's in between Sugar and Mabel Lakes, at Cherryville, British Columbia.Skookum1 (talk)

Anyway, I did a whole bunch of work on the Thompson River section including adding several new rivers that were not mentioned here previously. AndrewEnns (talk) 15:24, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * See Heffley Creek, British Columbia which is where Heffley Creek and Heffley Lake and Creek (or ?? remember taking it off the "Geography" section of the Heffley Creek community page; also Louis Creek vs Louis Creek, British Columbia, which is a community article and should have its own stub.Skookum1 (talk) 20:30, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Alright then but unless there is something created on the creeks that apparently have enough history behind them to make it onto Wikipedia I don't think having an extra lake on the list that could could confuse some is necessary. AndrewEnns (talk) 01:24, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There's lots of cases like this on the list, i.e. with an upper stretch of river, and a lower one; often more than two stretches. The ones off the top of my head are Taseko River-Taseko Lakes-Taseko River, the various lakes and interconnecting streams in the Nechako, Kootenay River-Lake Koocanusa-Kootenai River-Kootenay Lake-Kootenay River, Adams River-Adams Lake-Adams River...have to scratch my head for others, but there are others.  Only in-line lakes count, so in some cases there's loopholes, e.g. Lajoie Creek drains Lajoie Lake into Gun Lake, but Gun Lake meets Gun Creek by an unnamed stream; the same is true I think of Tyaughton Lake and Tyaughton Creek.  It's not like we're listing all lakes, just those which are part of a major watercourse.Skookum1 (talk) 01:40, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * More important than culling the list is filling in redlinks, even as stubs.Skookum1 (talk) 01:41, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Here is another issue here: Why are we adding creeks like Deeks Creek & M Creek? I've been on the Deeks Lake Trail & Deeks Creek, while is a medium sized creek & doesn't even come close to resembling a river.  Nor does M Creek; it is nothing more than just a mountain stream unless you added it because it had that one huge flood that took out several cars.  The reality is is that it is not a river, a river & a mountain stream are 2 different things.  I understand Deeks Creek probably has some history behind it but if you are going to make an article on it put it in a category like Creeks of British Columbia & then make a list for it like Category:Rivers of British Columbia has (which is this page of course).  When you add simple mountain streams like Deeks or M Creek onto here its making this page's name misleading because when people come look at this page they are looking for the actual rivers of BC, not a whole bunch of mountain streams with a bit of history behind them.  I'm not trying to be obstuctive, I'm trying to put a little sense of reality into this page. AndrewEnns (talk) 02:42, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * M Creek is notable exactly for the reason you point to (I was living in Whistler at the time). Six deaths and causing a wholesale rebuilding of a major highway is pretty notable.  Deeks Creek, yes, has a history.  And if areek has a falls on it, it's notable.  And bear in mind that a lot of these creeks, are bigger than rivers in most other countries (e.g. the River Cam in England, or the River Alpheus at Olympia).  And river/creek/stream an issue for WP Rivers, not just here, and there are precedents all over the ying-yang.  The difference between a river and a creek is largely only one of nomenclature; creeks go in the rivers category, and so therefore creeks also have a place in articles with "rivers" in the title.  If you don't know why a lot of thsee are notable, I suggest you educate yourself by finding out, not just dismissing them because you don't think they're important, or belong in a separate creek article.  Most of the creeks feeding the Cheakamus are larger than the Oldman or any number of "river" tributaries of the Missouri and other Plains Rivers; the Gila River and the Arkansas River are almost arroyos, likewise the Los Angeles River is a concrete-lined ditch with a little trickle running down it....Skookum1 (talk) 03:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't accuse me of something I didn't do; I did not dismiss them I asked why a bunch of creeks that are not rivers (regardless of the fact that some rivers are very small I agree) are on here. Notice I'm trying to be reasonable & I'm not attacking you or anyone else about this.  I would appreciete if you would not accuse me of stuff (especially if it is something that I didn't even do) in that manner.  Try talking it over before accusing.  Listen, I totally understand your side & while some of these creeks belong here (ie: Scotch Creek (Shuswap) or [[Winslow Creek) some of them don't, plain & simple.  Most people when they come onto Wikipedia don't know this & will be confused as to whyt there are a bunch of creeks on here.  I respect your opinion, you have a lot of knowledge however not everyone here knows that creeks go with the rivers.  Some creeks like the ones in brackets do but not at all.  If you think lots of creeks should be on here then why not put all the creeks in BC here, regardless of their size?  I'm trying to say that not everyone who reads this article thinks of creeks as also rivers as well.  I understand that you may, but not everyone does.  Plz don't accuse me of not educating myself because it is both ridiculous & it makes me look like i'm not being respectful when I am.  This is not Youtube where everyone accuses each other of this & that.  So leave out the accusations.  I apoligize if my comparison is a bit unusual but it is kind of true; your accusing me of not educating myself & dismissing your opinion when I am simply trying to politely ask why you did what you did what to this page.  AndrewEnns (talk) 03:47, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, it was late and I'm sorry I wasn't more politick with my wording - my retort "educate yourself" had to do with BC history, which as other Wikipedians can tell you I know more detail about than probably anyone else here (upside down, inside out, forward and backwards, and that's not a brag). I summarized my rationales at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Rivers just now, as I think we should find what guidelines might exist, if any, and have a look at what other lists contain.  Whether it's Joss Creek or Oregon Jack Creek, there is history associated with these creeks; and in many cases creeks are the namesake of places that have articles.  Waterfalls, mines, canyons, hot springs...there's a host of reasons why, each of a different kind; Kanaka Creek for example is larger than the River Cam (though the Cam is certainly more notable globally - the namesake of Cambridge) and either one of Whonnock Creek or Hatzic Creek are larger than the Alpheus or the Guadalquivir (though not as long as the Guadalquivir).  If Scotch Creek warrants an article - and it does because of the community of that name - then lots of others of similar size/significance do also.  There may be lots of redlinks here now, but my point in this is completeness of everything that could be in teh category/have an article.  In the case of the Stave basin, I didn't add Thompson Creek, Keystone Creek, Hairsine Creek, Yeo Creek, Sayres Creek, Cardinalis Creek....Steelhead Creek has a falls on it, was the site of the old Mission dump, and a flume flanking it was a trasnportation method used by early settlers there.  Gold Creek off Alouette Lake was the site of a gold mine and has some other history associated with it, as well as being a climbing-trail route; others that aren't on here yet should be - Silverhope Creek, (where the Silver Creek neighbourhood of Hope is) had several silver prospects on it, and the ghost town of Steamboat Mountain, Weaver Creek, a tributary of the Harrison just above the Chehalis, is the site of a major fisheries spawning-channel facility, Statlu Creek, a major tributary of the Chehalis, figures in climbing literature and has a logging-railway history (as does that entire region), Madeley Creek, a tributary of Callaghan Creek, is the site of the Whistler Olympic Park.  Rubble Creek is a major geohazard (it's where The Barrier comes from).  Horesthief Creek and Forster Creek have history associated with them (see their BCGNIS).  Noaxe Creek was an important route to the site of the Yalakom Gold Rush of 1941 and so on....  It's not like I'm adding every single creek in the province; I'm adding those that either are sizeable enough to warrant mention or have a reason for notability.  I'll say it again - culling this list is far less important than actually writing articles.  And anything that's in Category:Rivers of British Columbia belongs on the list.Skookum1 (talk) 12:32, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

[undent]I just looked at the Texan, Australian and Washington lists I linked in the WP:Rivers section, and they all have creeks on them, including redlinked ones; the Australian one's not laid out hierarchically; Washington's and Texas' are., and I'm sure if we poked around California, Oregon, Montana etc we'd also find creeks; back east we'd probably find brooks, too. Wikipedia should be complete, not incomplete, and it should be integrated, not fragmented....Skookum1 (talk) 12:36, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Some can conceivably be redirects, e.g. Tipella Creek to Tipella City/Tipella, British Columbia, but then the town/location articles should have creek-information content, e.g. Monte Creek, Louis Creek, Heffley Creek and different kinds of categories; for the same reason that lake and towns named for lakes have different articles (Christina Lake, British Columbia vs Christina Lake (British Columbia); different infoboxes and different content and different categories. Kanaka Creek can be redirected to Kanaka Creek Regional Park, as the park is most of its length, and rather than to the Kanaka Creek, British Columbia community article, but then we shoudl add the rivers category and wikiproject to it, and the hydrology and fishery information as it becomes available; similarly with Weaver Creek which could redirect to an article about the spawning channels.  I think it's simpler just to keep them all separate; and to recognize that what may not be notable at first glance very often is with a little digging around.  And also recognizing, again, that the designation "creek" vs "river" is quite arbitrary in nature (e.g. the Seton River only recently was labelled that, it was for years Seton Creek; the Deadman River has also been gazetted as Deadman's Creek etc.Skookum1 (talk) 12:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * About Joss Creek, it's the ultimate headwater of the Shuswap, and the article Joss Pass exists; I just looked at MINFILE and there's only one Joss Mountain prospect; but it's because of the existence of those names and the likelihood of a Skookum1 (talk) 12:50, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I still don't completely agree with you but that explanation was very detailed & helped me understand things a lot more. Thanks for explaining.  If you want to add Statlu Creek, I have some pictures taken from the bridge over the creek along the logging road to Chehalis Lake; I was up there I think like last March or something & there was still tons of snow & I was actually stopped right at the bridge by a blockade of snow that made it impossible to go any further.  If you want to create an article for Statlu Creek that would be great because it is, first of all, it is a legit river & second, I have some pictures that I could put on its page. AndrewEnns (talk) 14:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Rivers
How many rivers are in british Columbia 2607:FEA8:A1E0:EC10:F5C8:D147:FB:60CC (talk) 20:20, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Not sure... probably in the thousands. This list is not supposed to list them all. Just notable ones, otherwise this would be a massive list. Masterhatch (talk) 22:02, 29 November 2021 (UTC)