Talk:List of sovereign states in the 2020s

Why?
Why is this different to List of sovereign states? Either the latter is a list of all time, which it appears not to be, or it is the current list, which is the same as List of sovereign states in the 2020s? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Graeme Bartlett (talk • contribs) 31 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I find that to be a very good question. List of sovereign states has the list now, which happens to be the 2020s, so this here article is an unnecessary repeat. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 22:37, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The articles "List of sovereign states in (the) XXXX(s) are meant as historical resources, currently it's a repeat of List of sovereign states but it probably won't be in a few years, that's the point of these articles. --JonahF (talk) 17:42, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Now a few years in, I find the delineation of theses articles by decade to be confusing due to the massive overlap. In all honesty, the 2000s, 2010s, and 2020s articles could be combined quite easily. Yeoutie (talk) 19:26, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Donetsk and Luhansk
I've gone ahead and added these two statelets to the article under the "non-UN members" section. However, I am not 100% sure if they should stay on the page or if their inclusion here is proper, since they're not included on the 2010s counterpart to this article. Any thoughts? – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 12:10, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Given that this list makes little to no attempt to define what belongs and what does not belong, there is formally no reason for anything to go on this list or for anything not to go on this list.


 * However, you should note that the longstanding consensus on the List of sovereign states and the List of states with limited recognition is that Donetsk and Luhansk do not meet the standard for inclusion for those lists. Firstly, because they are not recognised as states by any UN member state.  And secondly because no-one has ever managed to demonstrate that there is a significant body of opinion in reliable sources that holds that they meet the standard of the declarative theory of statehood.


 * Per WP:NPOV and WP:NOR, Wikipedia should not be the only independent source in the world that concludes that states exist in Donetsk and Luhansk. If we were to treat them as states, that's precisely what we would be. Kahastok talk 17:05, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Alright, I've gone back and removed them for the time being. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 12:50, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * We should readd and them and expand further, adding entities like (Iraqi) Kurdistan and Rojava for example, this isn't the List of sovereign states, this article is to show which entities had control during the 2020s, it's the same with almost all other "List of sovereign states in (the) XXXX(s)" and they should all be treated equally. This is a historical resource for sovereignty, not recognition, that's why the distinction between "UN members" and other entities is important. If the entity controls a territory (de facto or de jure) it belongs on this list. --JonahF (talk) 17:49, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Tense
Why refer some entries (like Portugal, Norway or Nicaragua) to territories in the past tense? "Norway had autonomy over..." implies it doesnt anymore. Shouldn't it all be present tense? jonas (talk) 14:57, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Almost everything in "List of sovereign states in (the) XXXX(s)" is written is past tense, these articles (in contrast to the List of sovereign states) are meant as a historical resource and this is future proofing, talking about everything that was (currently still is) in the 2020s --JonahF (talk) 17:40, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

UN Security Council
I am in the process of removing references to being a (permanent or non-permanent) member of the UN Security Council, and I wanted to explain my two reasons. First, it appears this is being added to this series where it hasn't historically appeared without clear consensus in talk pages that it is information to be included (unless I am missing something). Second, being a member of the Council is ultimately irrelevant to the parallel questions of sovereignty and recognition of said sovereignty that most notes concern themselves with. This page would seem to be most useful in listing which states meet the criteria for inclusion in the list, and why, and notes should be (and seem to have historically been) concerned solely with those questions.

Notably, the many references to UN membership (and LON membership in other decades) are a different question, as such membership confers clear international recognition, and thus is relevant to the question at hand. OlympicNerd2010 (talk) 16:01, 8 February 2024 (UTC)