Talk:List of stadiums by capacity/Archive 3

What does the * mean?
There's nothing to indicate what this symbol means. Buffs (talk) 16:01, 19 May 2020 (UTC)


 * There was a section with list criteria in the article about a year ago. It read as follows:
 * The capacity figures are standard, permanent total capacity, including both seating and any permanent standing areas, but excluding any temporary accommodation.
 * Incidental record attendance is not considered relevant. Only regular capacity counts; for attendance records, see List of sporting venues with a highest attendance of 100,000 or more.
 * Only stadiums with a capacity of 40,000 or more are included in this list.
 * Stadiums that are defunct or closed, or those that no longer serve as competitive sports venues (such as Strahov Stadium, which was the largest in the world and held around 220,000 spectators), are not included. They are listed under List of closed stadiums by capacity.
 * An asterisk (*) indicates that the team plays only some (few) of its home matches at the venue, and may have another (primary) home ground.
 * Race tracks (such as the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and the Tokyo Racecourse) are not stadiums, and are not included here. For a list of all sports venues by capacity, see List of sports venues by capacity.
 * Capacities are taken whenever possible from the figure stated on the official website of the stadium, its tenants, or a sports event it has hosted
 * Do we want to restore all of this, or just the item about the asterisk being it's a part-time host for that team/tenant? —C.Fred (talk) 16:11, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 *  Buffs (talk) 17:11, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I came here to ask the same thing. Looking through the history, the removal was made by an IP who seems to be making mostly unconstructive edits, so I went ahead and restored the criteria. I don't have strong feelings about it, but at least we should not use the asterisk if we're not going to explain what it means. Lester Mobley (talk) 22:30, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Re-Examining the Exclusion of Race Tracks and Speedways
As of now, both speedways and racecourses are excluded in the 'List of Stadiums by Capacity' article. The criteria states that these are not included within the list as they are not stadiums; however, this exclusion seems arbitrary.

The agreed upon definition within the 'Stadium' Wikipedia article is "is a place or venue for (mostly) outdoor sports, concerts, or other events and consists of a field or stage either partly or completely surrounded by a tiered structure designed to allow spectators to stand or sit and view the event" The dictionary.com definition is stated as "a sports arena, usually oval or horseshoe-shaped, with tiers of seats for spectators." Webster Defines stadium as "a large usually roofless building with tiers of seats for spectators at sports events"

It seems that speedways and racecourses with permanent seating (ex. Indianapolis Motor Speedway, with ~260k permanent seats) would fulfill the criteria for either definition, and thus should be included within the 'List of stadiums by capacity' article. I understand that there is already a 'List of sports venues by capacity,' with speedways and racecourses, however if they meet the stadium criteria they should be included.

I believe that either one of three things needs to happen: (1)Speedways and Racecourses with permanent seating are incorporated into the "List of stadiums by capacity" article (2)Speedways and Racecourses with permanent seating are NOT included, and the definition of stadium in the 'Stadium' Wikipedia article is revised to address why these venues are not included. (3)Speedways and Racecourses with permanent seating are NOT included, and the definition of stadium in the 'Stadium' Wikipedia article is NOT revised, however an explanation regarding the exclusion of speedways and racecourses with permanent seating in incorporated into the 'Stadium' article (and preferable a brief explanation within the 'List of Stadiums by Capacity' explaining the exclusion other than "...(they) are not stadiums, and they are not included here."

However, I am not an expert in architecture and thus am not comfortable making any major changes to any article regarding this topic, I just happened to notice the seeming inconsistency between the two articles. I would greatly appreciate someone more knowledgeable in the field looking into this, as well as if possible explaining the difference. Chmalyn (talk) 15:38, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Apologies for the presumption, but I've taken the liberty of removing 'ref' tags from this comment, as they're going to behave oddly on a talk page with no 'references' section as subsequent sections are added. You may wish to tweak further if the bare cite webss aren't to your liking.  109.255.211.6 (talk) 01:16, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
 * An alternative is to use the template, as I've done. Now there's a "References" list for this section of the talk page. Lester Mobley (talk) 23:33, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Nifty. I didn't know about that, sorry.  Aren't those template code-monkeys clever!  109.255.211.6 (talk) 03:45, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Prioritising primary sources?
The article states: "Capacities are taken whenever possible from the figure stated on the official website of the stadium, its tenants, or a sports event it has hosted." This seems to be acting as both a note for the reader, and a local editorial practice. In rather sharp contrast, though, from RSPRIMARY: "Wikipedia articles should be based mainly on reliable secondary sources" and "Primary sources are often difficult to use appropriately. Although they can be both reliable and useful in certain situations, they must be used with caution in order to avoid original research. Although specific facts may be taken from primary sources, secondary sources that present the same material are preferred. Large blocks of material based purely on primary sources should be avoided." Now things like stadium capacities in theory should be objectively quantifiable and hence unproblematic to use from a primary source... and yet we have a live editing dispute both here and at Narendra Modi Stadium over just such a primary/secondary discrepancy. I think it may be unwise to imply there's a local exception to general sourcing practices on this page. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 01:10, 4 March 2021 (UTC)