Talk:List of submissions to the 85th Academy Awards for Best Foreign Language Film

Flags
I'd like to talk about the presence of flags in the "Other Countries" section. These flags had been present on previous pages for years until a certain user took it upon him/herself to delete them all. Some users have pointed to MOS Flags guidelines which note that "flag icons should only be inserted in infoboxes in those cases where they convey information in addition to the text. Flag icons are visually distracting in infoboxes and lead to unnecessary disputes when over-used. Examples of acceptable exceptions would be military battle infoboxes templates and infoboxes that include international competitions, such as FIFA World Cup or the Olympic Games."

The Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film is formally awarded to the country itself. The director of the winning film accepts the award on behalf of the country. It is my view that the competition enumerated in these pages is an international competition. Among the cases where you can see flags in Infoboxes include http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_World_2010, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovision_2013, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Summer_Olympics_boycott#Non-participating_countries, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Summer_Olympics_boycott#Non-participating_countries and, until you changed longstanding practice, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_submissions_to_the_82nd_Academy_Awards_for_Best_Foreign_Language_Film. These are just examples that I have found in the past five minutes but I'm happy to look for others.

It would clearly be inappropriate to have a sentence in a Infobox that states:

The 🇬🇧 and 🇫🇷 fought in World War II against 🇩🇪 and 🇯🇵.

In this case (per MOS Flags guidelines) the flags are clearly being inserted in the prose in a distracting manner. However, in this case, the flags are being used as bullet points. I believe they make the page more visually appealing and easier to read, and it also complies with past editions of the pages. I have created these pages and while this clearly conveys no sort of ownership, one user in particular has seen fit to make changes and refused repeated attempts to discuss the matter amicably, even though s/he has in the past thanked me for all my hard work on the pages. He now refers to me as a vandal for trying to express my view.

I'd like to remind some users that Wikipedia defines vandalism as "any addition, removal, or change of content in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia...Even if misguided, willfully against consensus, or disruptive, any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia is not vandalism.". Mislabelling good-faith edits as vandalism can be considered harmful and callously changing edits and refusing to respond to repeated efforts to cordially solve a dispute constitute inappropriate Wiki behavior.

Most/all of these flags will disappear in three weeks when the official list comes out and the submissions are all settled. So, this should not become such a contentious issue.

Can we please use this talk page to discuss? Thank you!

WP:MOSFLAG clearly states:

Do not emphasize nationality without good reason

Wikipedia is not a place for nationalistic pride. Flags are visually striking, and placing a national flag next to something can make its nationality or location seem to be of greater significance than other things.

Ask yourself this - would this article pass the criteria for a Featured List with those flags? The correct answer is no. Two editors have reverted your vandalism. Please stop.  Lugnuts  And the horse 18:49, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the response.

I agree that wikipedia is not a place for nationalistic pride but since flags are included for the other countries in the section, I don't see why it is more nationalistic to put a South African flag in "Other Countries" versus an Estonian flag in the list. It seems clearly from looking at other pages that it is not considered prose when flags are used as effective bullet points. And two editors have reversed your edits as well. Happy to discuss amicably. I've already explained the definition of vandalism but you clearly do not agree on the approved wikipedia definition. I have created and added a great deal of information to the page over the past few days and my edits are clearly in good-faith.

I don't believe the flag issue has any bearing on whether this would qualify as a Featured List or not. Wikipedia mediation already described this dispute as "frivolous" and since you initiated the changes, I must say I agree. Adtran (talk) 22:52, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Well you're clearly going against the policy. Please stop.  Lugnuts  And the horse 18:02, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I've laid out succinct arguments why I believe the edits are justified, using numerous examples. Simply saying "it's against policy" is not a valid reason since I have laid out what I believe to be strong arguments why it is actually consistent with policy. If you disagree, please explain why. YOU DO NOT OWN THIS PAGE (just as I do not). Also, your clear lack of understanding of the word 'vandalism' and your use of slanderous remarks in the edits section towards an editor trying to resolve a dispute in good faith in line with wikipedia guidelines is inappropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adtran (talk • contribs) 19:51, 27 September 2012 (UTC)


 * No, you're clearly going against a policy. Please don't try and hide behind the above bullshit you've written to hide your vandalism. Thanks.  Lugnuts  And the horse 18:07, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Other countries
I've added this from the main article for future references (esp. for the films that don't make it).  Lugnuts  And the horse 19:08, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Brazil announced a shortlist of sixteen films: À Beira do Caminho (Breno Silveira), Billi Pig (José Eduardo Belmonte), Capitães da Areia (Cecília Amado and Guy Gonçalves), Colegas (Marcelo Galvão), Corações Sujos (Vicente Amorim), Dois Coelhos (Afonso Poyart), Heleno (José Henrique Fonseca), Elvis & Madona (Marcelo Laffitte), Histórias Que Só Existem Quando Lembradas (Júlia Murat), Luz nas Trevas (Helena Ignez), Menos Que Nada (Carlos Gerbase), Meu País (André Ristum), O Carteiro (Reginaldo Faria), O Palhaço (Selton Mello), Paraísos Artificiais (Marcos Prado) and Xingu (Cao Hamburger). ; with the final nominee to be announced on September 20

Chile announced a four-film shortlist- Bonsai, No, Old Cats and Sal.

Denmark announced a three-film shortlist- Bille August's Marie Krøyer, Susanne Bier's Love Is All You Need and Nikolaj Arcel's A Royal Affair. The final Danish nominee will be named on September 18, 2012.

Hungary announced a six-film shortlist- Adventure, The Exam, Istanbul, Just the Wind, The Maiden Danced to Death and S.O.S Love! The Million Dollar Contract.

Iceland announced that five eligible films were being considered- Black's Game (Óskar Þór Axelsson), City State (Ólafur Jóhannesson), The Deep (Baltasar Kormákur), Frost (Reynir Lyngdal) and Legends of Valhalla: Thor (Óskar Jónasson). Iceland will announce their official submission sometime after voting is completed on September 24.

Israel automatically chooses the winner of the Best Picture Award at the Ophir Awards. The nominees are The Ballad of the Weeping Spring, Fill the Void, God's Neighbors, Rock the Kasbah and The World is Funny The winner will be announced in September 2012.

Italy chose a commission of nine members, including director Paolo Sorrentino, that will announce the Italian film in a shortlist of films sent by distributors until September 14th. The possible films are Caesar Must Die (Paolo and Vittorio Taviani), Diaz - Don't Clean Up This Blood (Daniele Vicari), Dormant Beauty (Marco Bellocchio), È stato il figlio (Daniele Ciprì), The First Man (Gianni Amelio), Piazza Fontana: The Italian Conspiracy (Marco Tullio Giordana) and Reality (Matteo Garrone).

Norway announced a three-film shortlist Kon-Tiki, I Belong and The Orheim Company. The winner will be announced on September 13th.

South Korea announced a five-film shortlist- In Another Country (Hong Sang-soo), Masquerade (Choo Chang-min), Nameless Gangster (Yun Jong-bin), Pieta (Kim Ki-duk) and The Taste of Money (Im Sang-soo).

Mexico announced a shortlist of seven films: Aquí entre nos, Colosio El asesinato, Después de Lucía, El fantástico mundo de Juan Orol, El lugar más pequeño, Pastorela and Post Tenebras Lux. Voting ends on September 14, with a winner to be announced on September 19.

Peru announced that it would be considering six eligible films to be the official Peruvian nominee including four live-action films- The Bad Intentions, Cielo oscuro, El buen Pedro and Reshinn, sangre de anaconda and two animated films- Lars y el misterio del portal and Los ilusionautas. The official Oscar submission is to be named on September 26.

Philippines announced a shortlist of seven films: Captive, The Dance of Two Left Feet, Manila Kingpin: The Asiong Salonga Story, A Mother's Story, Palawan Fate, Segunda Mano, and The Witness.

Russia announced an eleven-film shortlist- The Conductor, Faust, Home, The Horde, Kokoko, Match, Shapito-shou, Siberia Mon Amour, Twilight Portrait, Vysotsky. Thank You For Being Alive and The White Tiger. The official Russian Oscar candidate will be named on September 21, 2012.

Switzerland announced a shortlist of five films: The Foster Boy (Markus Imboden), Lullaby Ride (Christoph Schaub), Opération Libertad (Nicolas Wadimoff), Sister (Ursula Meier) and Someone Like Me (Xavier Koller), with the final nominee to be announced at the Delémont-Hollywood Film Festival on September 22.

Brazil, Spain and Argentina confirmed their participation, with their official submissions to be announced on September 20, September 27 and September 28 respectively.

Bangladesh, the Dominican Republic and India confirmed their participation.

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>>>FYROM
The name "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" is used here. Should it be left that way, or updated to "North Macedonia"? I don't think that North Macedonia ever actually used the FYROM name for itself. Now, I know that North Macedonia was not called that back when the film was released, but does that matter? It's not a different country now just because its official name is different. Kelisi (talk) 20:33, 4 June 2021 (UTC)