Talk:List of terrorist incidents in 2023/Archive 9

Question on validity of source
Please consider this citation.

This source states assailant. Is this truly considered terrorism? The government has not officially confirmed this as legitimate. Additionally, the "by Associated Press" does not have a hyperlink and I am unable to identify an original source for this content.

A more appropriate classification of this event, perhaps other than terrorist incident, may exist. However, one can technically classify this incident as a terrorist incident under the current definition provided, assuming the source is valid. The definition and color-shading is necessary to afford clarity if the definition for inclusion to this page remains.

In my opinion, the threshold for inclusion to this page should be more strict; I assume the list could become lengthy if the definition of terrorist incident and/or mass shooting, is not strict enough. I do not mean to dismiss this event, especially if verified, however, this page has the potential become lengthy by the nature of this definition. Again, this is my opinion. BreathingDocument (talk) 00:14, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The threshold for inclusion is strict—the threshold for inclusion is that The consensus of reliable sources describe the incident as "terrorism". If the list includes some incident where some sources describe it as "terrorism" but the consensus of them do not, that's a problem with enforcement of the threshold rather than with the threshold itself. It appears that there may not be a consensus among the sources here. I'll remove it for now. TompaDompa (talk) 04:10, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Extended confirmed protection
I protected the article for 3 months according to WP:ARBPIA since part of it is about Palestine-Israeli conflict. I am aware that the article is not in full about this conflict, and this is why I decided to protect it only for 3 months and not indefinitely. Ymblanter (talk) 20:44, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 October 2023
26 August Jaboipizza22 (talk) 02:20, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Hyphenation Expert (talk) 02:59, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

WP:ARBPIA4 general sanctions on that apply to this list
Hi @Gil mo

This edit reverting me constitutes a second revert performed by you on this article within 24 and thus you have breached the 1RR editing restrictions that apply within WP:ARBPIA4 topic areas. There was a notice regarding this, at the top of the page, when you selected edit. Please self-revert immediately. TarnishedPathtalk 23:04, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, what is the procedure for discussing this event for inserting it back in or leaving it out? Gil_mo (talk) 13:10, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Gil mo, a common thing is that people discuss things in an unstructured way to see if they can meet some sort of consensus. State why they think material should be included or not included as the case may be and what if any wiki policies and reliable sources they believe support their positions. Sometimes through discussing things people can come to consensus. Sometimes they can't. If people can't come to consensus sometimes they might decide a RfC might be appropriate, or perahaps if it's a dispute on whether a source is reliable or not they might decide to go to the reliable source notice board or if it's a dispute on whether a section that is being contested is neutral or not it be decided to go the neutral point of notice noticeboard. There's also a dispute resolution noticeboard, but I think that's more for when there's conflict between editors, but I'm not entirely sure. There are many different paths discussions can take depending on the circumstances of a particular discussion. TarnishedPathtalk 04:15, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 December 2023
I want to add a new thing that happend this saturday night. Faby1RO (talk) 11:01, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. &#128156; melecie   talk  - 14:12, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * If you would like to ask to have a specific event added to this list, you need to write here exactly what you want added. Please also note that you will need to supply a reliable source or even several. To be included on this list the incident you want added must already have its own stand-alone article on Wikipedia to pass the notability test, and the reliable sources you use to support the information must use the word 'terrorist" when describing the attack. If you have any questions, you can contact me. DaringDonna (talk) 15:36, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Pkk attack in northern iraq
https://www.tgcom24.mediaset.it/mondo/iraq-turchia-pkk-soldati-morti_74876864-202302k.shtml 93.33.181.152 (talk) 12:31, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

October 7th
Wouldn’t the entire militant assault itself go down as a terrorist incident? There have been 1000+ deaths so far, and that figure is sadly rising daily. I don’t see why we’re singling out the music festival assault alone. Their victims were almost entirely civilians. It was terrorist slaughter. 2A00:23EE:17B0:1CAE:31E2:91AC:FC82:FBFA (talk) 16:45, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * After having a mini edit war over this, the entry has been deleted altogether. I was requested to discuss here in the talk page before reinserting the event as a terror attack. What is the procedure for that? Gil_mo (talk) 13:09, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Each community that was attacked and that has its own Wikipedia article can be a separate entry, as long as each entry meets the criteria of the List. The criteria are that the attack is notable, and that reliable sources call it a terror attack. Here is a sample: Kfar Aza massacre; Alumim massacre; Be'eri massacre. For what is close to a full list, go here Category:Massacres_during_the_2023_Israel–Hamas_war. You must be careful to use reliable sources that clearly state that it was a terrorist attack. DaringDonna (talk) 18:15, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * According to the Terrorism article, a terror attack is one that is aimed at civilians. I think there is no disagreement that this was the case with Hamas, making the Oct 7 events a terrorism attack. Am I wrong? Gil_mo (talk) 22:00, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Whether we as Wikipedia editors think it meets the definition is irrelevant. What matters is the consensus of WP:Reliable sources on the matter. What you're engaging in is WP:Original research; I would suggest you read the section on improper editorial synthesis and reflect upon how that concept applies here. TompaDompa (talk) 22:37, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * This HAS to be fixed one way or the other, and quickly! Any excuse is wrong. There were at least 900 civilian victims, not 500 and civilians were especially targeted:
 * - 900 civilians killed
 * - 300 soldiers killed
 * - about 150 soldiers kidnapped
 * - about 150 civilians kidnapped.
 * The ratio of the killed versus kidnapped is much higher for civilians (4:1) than for soldiers (2:1), although civilians are easier to kidnap.
 * This means that civilians were, indeed, the main target.
 * That is undeniable.
 * IMHO, the layout should be something like that:
 * etc...
 * Than the first line could point to the general event, and the others to the specific events.
 * Wikipedia is neutral is should NOT erase any civilian victims, not to say HUNDREDS of them.
 * !!! Now please explain why, on this very page, there are two instances where SOLDIERS are counted as victims, even when they are the MAJORITY of the victims, and it couldn't be the case here!!! (Feb 17, Al-Sukhnah, Syria ; May 24, North Waziristan District, Pakistan)
 * Muslim solders do count, but Jewish don't. It makes Wikipedia look anti-Semitic, whether it is or not.
 * It's anyway really a shame that this issue hasn't been solved yet, three months after the events.
 * (By honesty, I'm IMHO too junior here, and IMHO too much implicated in this, to fix it myself, I didn't even try) Jay Lev (talk) 10:22, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
 * etc...
 * Than the first line could point to the general event, and the others to the specific events.
 * Wikipedia is neutral is should NOT erase any civilian victims, not to say HUNDREDS of them.
 * !!! Now please explain why, on this very page, there are two instances where SOLDIERS are counted as victims, even when they are the MAJORITY of the victims, and it couldn't be the case here!!! (Feb 17, Al-Sukhnah, Syria ; May 24, North Waziristan District, Pakistan)
 * Muslim solders do count, but Jewish don't. It makes Wikipedia look anti-Semitic, whether it is or not.
 * It's anyway really a shame that this issue hasn't been solved yet, three months after the events.
 * (By honesty, I'm IMHO too junior here, and IMHO too much implicated in this, to fix it myself, I didn't even try) Jay Lev (talk) 10:22, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

October 13th Paris Stabbing?
Seems to fit the criteria. Multiple news sources have covered the stabbing of a teacher in Paris. Reliable sources have described it as a terrorist attack. From BBC President Emmanuel Macron condemned the "barbarity of Islamist terrorism".

Being investigated as a terrorist attack: "The French anti-terror prosecutor's office says it has opened an investigation following the attack for "murder in connection with a terrorist enterprise" and "attempted murder in connection with a terrorist enterprise".

AP

Reuters TheGooGooMuck (talk) 06:29, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The Arras school stabbing is in the article. X2023X (talk) 04:55, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Hartlepool stabbing
Hartlepool: Victim named in anti-terrorism murder investigation - BBC News 82.144.242.98 (talk) 10:25, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * October 2023 Hartlepool stabbings X2023X (talk) 04:55, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Missing item
Why is 7th of October Terror Attack on Israel is missing from the list?

It was acknowledged as a terror attack by at least 44 countries

See here

Danels97 (talk) 08:15, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Daniel,
 * There's 195 countries on this planet. Taking your number at face value, that leaves 151 which haven't acknowledged it as a terrorist attack. Those countries which have acknowledged it as a terrorist attack are mostly those allied with Israel and the US. Arab League countries, Latin American countries, African countries, China, Brazil, etc. have refused to label the operation as a "terrorist" attack. Additionally there is no consensus in reliable sources about whether this is a terrorist act. Some reliable sources refer to it as terrorism, while others refer to it as a war, or an operation, or an attack. There's a list criteria at the top of this page and one of the criterion for an incident to be included in this list is that 'The consensus of reliable sources describe the incident as "terrorism"', which is to say that there should be no substantial disagreement between sources about the nature of an incident in order for it to be included in this list. TarnishedPathtalk 08:31, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The definition of whether it's a terror attack should be by facts, not by recognition. There's a definite definition to terror. If it stand, it should be recognized as such. In the case of October 7 massacre, the English Wikipedia itself recognizes it as a terror attack, therefore it should be consistent across Wikipedia. See List of major terrorist incidents, which lists the event, and the template Template:Terrorist attacks against Israelis in the 2020s which also lists it, and appears on the relevant article 2023 Hamas attack on Israel. Galzigler (talk) 00:43, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The distinction between "terrorist attack" and "terror attack" notwithstanding, what you're describing is WP:Original research. TompaDompa (talk) 06:01, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I was talking about state recognition. Most media does refer to it as a terrorist attack (since it's one, by the simplest definition), maybe besides BBC, which was heavily criticized for it. Not hard to find articles by reliable sources which call it that way. The problem is with referring to states, and to media in non-democratic states, arab ones in particular, which are obviously controlled by the country, and are biased. This makes all terror against Israel a problem when seeking worldwide consensus, in order to define it as such. Galzigler (talk) 08:22, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Very few attacks or groups are described as terrorist by most of the world's media or countries, so needing them to do so wouldn't be a reasonable inclusion requirement. X2023X (talk) 04:55, 6 January 2024 (UTC)