Talk:List of unaccredited institutions of higher education/Archive 4

Georgian International University
Do editors have any info re Georgian International University? It is in Pennsylvania, but I do not see it listed by the MSA. The particular address for the institution 73 Chestnut Rd, Paoli, PA does not have a street view similar to the photos of GIU's website. --S. Rich (talk) 17:01, 16 September 2011 (UTC)


 * There is only one university called "Georgian" accredited according to the CHEA database, namely Georgian Court University, http://www.georgian.edu Tgeorgescu (talk) 17:44, 16 September 2011 (UTC)


 * It appears (for example, from the president's bio) that "Georgian" is somehow related to the country of Georgia, notwithstanding the U.S. address. A Google search on that Paoli, PA, street address lists it as the address of a Burger King, a CPA, CBG Communications, Chriskoll Corp., Helix Healthcare, and several other businesses. Whois indicates that the web domain name was created in May 2011. A search on the phone number only returns a listing for GIU. The uncaptioned images of impressive buildings, the the awards and recognitions that have impressive titles but that you've never heard of (such as Plato Gold Medal of The National Academy of Ukraine, Gold Medal of Gogebashvili Pedagogic Society, and American Attestation Program), and the schools and programs named for famous people are typical of websites for the more creative class of illegitimate institutions. I bet that a good image search could identify the true locations of some of the buildings in the photos. --Orlady (talk) 23:25, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

clarified university partnerships
Global education is increasingly characterized by transatlantic and cross border partnerships. IOU Foundation Website shows that it holds a partnership with two fully accredited Latin American universities. A university partnership combines elements such as: joint initiatives in research and publications, faculty and postdoctoral mobility, collaboration in teaching, shared programs, joint and dual degrees, in this case at the Ph.D level. In any university partnership candidates for dual-degree programs must meet the admissions criteria and degree requirements of each school. Puntero1 (talk) 20:54, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That may be, but that doesn't make IOU accredited. Such partnerships are therefore completely irrelevant here. jfeise (talk) 21:30, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Removal of the Intercultural Open University Foundation from the List of Unaccredited Institutions of Higher Education
I request removal of the Intercultural Open University Foundation (IOUF) from the List of Unaccredited Institutions of Higher Education for the following reasons: 1.      The IOUF has now signed an academic cooperation agreement with the Universidad Azteca  (UAzteca) (http://www.azteca-edu.net/int/component/content/article/40/62.html),  a university with full Mexican accreditation that is also listed in the International Handbook of Universities, 2012. (http://www.iau-aiu.net/sites/all/files/m_nw.pdf#Mexico. This partnership will give IOUF learners access to an international double degree program offered jointly by the Universidad Azteca and its partner, the Universidad Central de Nicaragua. The Universidad Central de Nicaragua UCN is also fully accredited (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universidad_Central_de_Nicaragua). Upon successful completion of their IOUF doctorate program, participants will now be awarded a Doctor of Philosophy PhD degree from UAzteca and UCN in addition to the IOUF degree. 2.     I’d also like to point out that even without the UAzteca accreditation there are numerous flaws in the references used to add IOUF to the unaccredited list. For example, the “Degree Mills – CIMEA” citation  (http://www.cimea.it/files/fileusers/Diploma_mills_Luca_Lantero_EN.pdf) is  not a credible reference for the following reasons: a)     The original source does not contain a valid link to any documentary evidence supporting the writer’s claim that the IOUF has “dubious professors with dubious titles that somehow connect them to UNESCO.” The link was removed by UNESCO years ago. (http://www.education.nairobi.unesco.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1347&Itemid=56) b)       CIMEA posted a letter from the IOUF Board of Governors on its website in which the IOUF protests the original “dubious professors” reference. As the original reference had been published in book-form the IOUF was informed that it was impossible for CIMEA to correct the reference but they were prepared to publish the IOUF letter by way of apology: http://www.cimea.it/default.aspx?IDC=2621. 3.     The “Skepter” Reference (http://www.skepsis.nl/iou.html -- De Universiteit van Opeinde Skepter) is also flawed. This is a four-year-old article from a magazine that claims to specialize in debunking the paranormal; it was written by someone who claims to be an expert on cults, astrology and new religious movements. (e.g. http://www.skepsis.nl/astrot.html, http://www.skepsis.nl/stagehyp.html). Neither the magazine nor the writer appears to have any background or expertise in distributed education and the article appears to be a catalogue of unreferenced claims written from a non-neutral point of view. In addition, the author of this article quotes a CIMEA reference that was later rescinded (see previous point about CIMEA above). Contrary to what the Skepter article claims, the IOUF does not promote any specific religious or spiritual belief system nor does it specialize in issues of the paranormal. Please see the list of notable graduates and faculty in the Foundation’s Wikipedia entry for details on the range of academic interest of IOUF graduates and faculty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercultural_Open_University). Some of these notables were the subject of the Wikipedia dispute resolution process, which ultimately confirmed their notability. An examination of the IOUF website will also give more details about the Foundation’s graduates, faculty and ethos. http://www.ioufoundation.org/index.php/intercultural-open-university-foundation/iou-at-a-glance In summary, the Skepter article is not a credible source. 4.     The “Diploma mafias” reference from the Iraqi news organization, New Sabah, is a faulty resource. ( http://www.newsabah.com/ar/1069/26/11078/dipl-mafia.htm?tpl=21) The New Sabah article specifically states that the Intercultural Open University (Foundation) “is not a diploma factory” but the writer claims the IOUF is “deeply engaged with religious issues, as are many fake universities” and that it cooperates with “a wide variety of similar institutes in Russia, India, Taiwan, Japan and other countries.” This is not proof of lack of accreditation but rather a sloppy collection of speculative comments mixed in with a liberal dash of innuendo. There are no references used to support the writer’s contention that the IOUF is deeply engaged with religious issues and, as stated above in #3 above, the IOUF does not promote any specific religious or spiritual belief system. The Foundation has no affiliations other than those listed in the IOUF Wikipedia listing and on its website. In any event, other than stating that the IOUF is not a diploma factory, none of the information in the New Sabah article speaks to the issue of the IOUF’s accreditation. The New Sabah reference is therefore not a credible source. 5.     As referenced in the IOUF Wikipedia entry, the Foundation has earned membership in numerous international learning organizations including: ·        The Alternative Education Resource Organization (AERO) (http://www.educationrevolution.org/aero-member-schools.html#netherlands (Listed under “International” heading) ·         The European Distance and E-learning Network (EDEN) (http://www.eden-online.org/membership.html) ·         The European Foundation for Quality in eLearning (EFQUEL) ·€€€€€€€€ Higher Education Exploring ICT Use for Lifelong Learning (HEXTLEARN) (http://elearning.ugr.es/hextlearn_v2/hextfiles/wp3/reportPeerReviewMethodology.pdf) ·         the International Association of Educators for World Peace (IAWEP) (http://taiwanauj.nat.gov.tw/fp.asp?xitem=21000&ctNode=122) ·         the Observatory on Borderless Higher Education (OBHE) ·         the United States Distance Learning Association (USDLA) Each of these organizations has criteria for membership, which the IOUF has met. 6.      As a footnote that is not entirely relevant to this discussion, the IOUF is no longer headquartered in the Netherlands but maintains offices in Delaware, USA, and Granada, Spain. (See Wikipedia entry and IOUF Website http://www.ioufoundation.org/index.php/component/content/article/46-iou-news/216-iou-foundation-contributes-to-reforestation-in-spablo-etla-oaxaca )Stretch call (talk) 00:22, 18 November 2011 (UTC)


 * It still exists as a Dutch juridical person. Maybe you should consider canceling its juridical personality and erasing it from the Dutch Trade Register. Tgeorgescu (talk) 19:35, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * None of the six arguments given above justifies removing this entity from the list. #1 does not have anything to do with whether this is an unaccredited educational institution. #2 is a reliable source on the topic, and it indicates that IOUF is not an accredited institution. The statement about "dubious" faculty is not the basis for listing it as unaccredited. The fact that CIMEA posted correspondence from IOUF on its website does not indicate anything that I can see. I don't know whether the online publication discussed in #3 qualifies as a reliable source, but it is an interesting article about IOUF, and I see no reason not to cite it. The fact that IOUF disagrees with some content in the article (content unrelated to lack of accreditation) and the allegations that it doesn't "look" credible do not demonstrate that it is invalid. Similarly, #4 may or may not be a reliable source. Membership in the organizations listed in #5 is not relevant to whether or not the entity is accredited; these are not accreditors. And as for #6, location is irrelevant to whether or not it is listable in this article. Anyway, ambiguity of location is a common feature of diploma mills. --Orlady (talk) 01:00, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

We obviously disagree on many issues. Re: Point #1 You say this has nothing to do with whether this is an unaccredited educational institution. That is incorrect. Our educational partnership agreements do, in fact, confer accreditation on IOUF and if our affiliates had not investigated and approved IOUF of our academic integrity they would never have signed the agreement.


 * Partnership is not the same as accreditation. There are many educational institutions which teach students who get real degrees from properly accredited universities. But this not imply that accreditation would be transferable through partnership agreements. E.g. European College of Liberal Arts taught BA courses in value studies for many years, wherein degrees were granted by properly accredited American colleges, but until February 2011 ECLA had no such thing as accreditation. Since it is a German educational institution, according to German law, accreditation had to be granted through recognition by the authorities of the state wherein it functions. In February 2011, it got recognized by the Berlin state, so only then it got the legal right to grant degrees by itself. So, accreditation refers to the capacity to grant valid degrees by the educational institution which teaches the courses while through partnerships degrees are granted by other institutions. In the Netherlands such international educational partnerships are called U-bocht constructions. Tgeorgescu (talk) 22:52, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Point #2 You call CIMEA a reliable source on the topic, and say it indicates that IOUF is not an accredited institution. Further, you state that “The statement about "dubious" faculty is not the basis for listing it as unaccredited. The fact that CIMEA posted correspondence from IOUF on its website does not indicate anything that I can see.”

In actual fact, the precise wording of the CIMEA reference dealing with the IOUF says “the website reports nine modes of operations adopted by agencies that claim to be accredited by UNESCO for each one an example is shown.”

The CIMEA piece goes on to say: “Dubious professors with dubious titles that somehow connect them to UNESCO are mentioned – for instance Intercultural Open University Foundation.”

First of all, IOUF makes no claim to be accredited by UNESCO.

And secondly, IOUF professors have had relationships with UNESCO in the past. That organization took the reference mentioned in the CIMEA article off their website years ago; it no longer exists. You say that the statement about "dubious" faculty is not the basis for listing it as unaccredited.” Then what is? That is the only reference to IOUF in that article. I’m sorry but your comment does not make sense. And if that is not a relevant citation overall, then why was it included?

Further, you state, “The fact that CIMEA posted correspondence from IOUF on its website does not indicate anything that I can see.” Excuse me, but the fact that they had a choice to either post the letter or not and did post it indicates a degree of acceptance of the IOUF’s complaints.

Point #3 You say, “I don't know whether the online publication discussed in #3 qualifies as a reliable source but it is an interesting article about IOUF, and I see no reason not to cite it.” In every other entry on the discussion page, you have made it clear that reliable sources are mandatory for including an organization on the unaccredited list. If you are not sure that this is a reliable resource why on Earth would you permit it to stand? Unless you have separate rules that apply to the IOUF only.

Point #4 You say “Similarly, #4 may or may not be a reliable source.” Again, if you have doubts about its reliability then why have you permitted its inclusion here?

Point #5 Your point here is that “Membership in the organizations listed in #5 is not relevant to whether or not the entity is accredited; these are not accreditors.” Fine. But such memberships do indicate educational integrity and the fact that many other organizations have approved IOUF as a member should indicate it is not a crass diploma mill as you imply.

Point #6 Your comment: “And as for #6, location is irrelevant to whether or not it is listable in this article. Anyway, ambiguity of location is a common feature of diploma mills.” The point of #6 was to correct misinformation. Your implication that a change of location automatically means IOUF is a diploma mill is a clear violation of Wikipedia’s neutral point of view policy.

IOUF does not belong on the list of unaccredited institutions of higher learning.Stretch call (talk) 01:13, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 March 2012
Sancta Sophia Seminary - add website: www.sanctasophia.org add ". . .however, is currently preparing for full accreditation with a recognized agency."

Revsusan2 (talk) 08:37, 2 March 2012 (UTC)Dr. Susan Hamilton, Dean
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done — Bility (talk) 17:43, 2 March 2012 (UTC)


 * The website link would go in the article. Since there is no article, there really is no place to place the website link in this list. Zugman (talk) 21:17, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Companies struck off in Vanuatu Number     Name            Date 3611934 ABC UNIVERSITY LTD 15.06.07 185730051 HARTFORD UNIVERSITY INC 05.06.06 235225136 KAVIL UNIVERSITY LIMITED 19.08.03 302029534 PARAMOUNT UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY LTD 18.07.07 348529953 SAN BOURDON UNIVERSITY LIMITED 16.07.07 447912238 WEN HSIUNG UNIVERSITY OA FUSION MEDECINE LIMITED 18.07.07 448431436 WESSEX UNIVERSITY CORPORATION 17.07.07 462112073 YIMANELI UNIVERSITY LIMITED 23.07.07 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bernleeman (talk • contribs) 00:54, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Add Westfield University aka college-degree-fast.com
Westfield University aka college-degree-fast.com and westfield-university.com should be added. News HERE  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alirn59 (talk • contribs) 01:12, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Added to the article. Thanks! --Orlady (talk) 03:18, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Berean Bible College unaccredited?
Berean Bible College does not list any accrediting agency recognized by USDE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alirn59 (talk • contribs) 07:27, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Inclusion on this list requires a reliably source statement that the institution is not accredited. Some schools declare that they refuse to seek government-recognized accreditation, so that's a basis for listing. More often, this list is based on third-party sources such as the ODA. Lack of evidence that a school is accredited is not an acceptable basis for saying it's not accredited. --Orlady (talk) 13:42, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

geteducated.com
Hi. :) There's a question about the reliability of this source. Please see Reliable_sources/Noticeboard. Thanks! --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 16:42, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Suggestion
Have a separate group (here or elsewhere) for 'Theological colleges that have chosen not to seek accreditation' (but which can be reputable nonetheless). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.45.17 (talk) 12:05, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 17 October 2012
I would like to delete European University Of Ireland because their course were validated by professional bodies and by some universities. Faculty members were from international government education sector. Actually it was independent university in Ireland and legal to provide courses if those courses were validated by professional bodies which stated in the Article of Incorporation. Those universities which were established before 1997 are allowed to be called universities according to The Universities Act, 1997. The former name of European University of Ireland was European university college Ireland which established before 1996 and later upgraded to University.

Iceskat (talk) 12:36, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Iceskat, you don't seem to understand the concept of "accreditation". Please read the article on that topic more carefully. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  12:48, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I have set this edit request to answered in light of the answer above. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 19:00, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Ashwood University is Accredited and needs to be removed from this list
Fact Ashwood University is A accredited legal online university and needs to be removed from this list. 71.206.216.141 (talk) 21:11, 19 November 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.216.141 (talk) 20:40, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Ashwood is not accredited by any accreditation agency that is recognized by the US Department of Education. They claim accreditation on their website, but the accreditation agencies they list are not recognized by the US Department of Education. jfeise (talk) 00:04, 20 November 2012 (UTC)


 * That is your opinion by whom, Fact Ashwood University is Accredited and needs to be removed from this list. 71.206.216.141 (talk) 14:19, 20 November 2012 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.216.141 (talk) 14:15, 20 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Please provide WP:RS as to Ashwood's accreditation. Their website claim is WP:SPS. The WP:BURDEN as to accreditation (not non-accreditation) is on you.--S. Rich (talk) 14:33, 20 November 2012 (UTC)


 * That's not entirely correct. The burden is on whoever wishes to retain information on Wikipedia, but that burden has already been satisfied with the use of multiple sources. If there is a legitimate competing reliable source, then the topic can be revisited, but as S. Rich said, their website (and those of their affiliated accreditation agencies) are self-published sources. VernoWhitney (talk) 14:59, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

That is your opinion, Ashwood University states that they are accredited so they should be removed from this list now, Fact Ashwood University is accredited. 71.206.216.141 (talk) 22:00, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Firstly, to quote the article, "Institutions that appear on this list are those that have granted post-secondary academic degrees or advertised the granting of such degrees, but which are listed as unaccredited by a reliable source." It is listed as unaccredited by reliable sources, so it meets the inclusion criteria. Unless you can provide a reliable source which contradicts that, then there's nothing more to be done here.
 * Secondly, and getting somewhat far afield from the contents of this article, me making a statement that I am Emperor of Northumbria does not make it so. Using a pair of affiliated accreditation mills which are themselves only traceable to Domains by Proxy (and both using the same website template nonetheless) to prop up a school does not provide a legitimate claim to accreditation. Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. VernoWhitney (talk) 22:24, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Crown College (TN) is Pre-accredited and needs to be removed from this list
While Crown College is not fully accredited, it is a pre-accredited. Candidacy, or pre-accreditation, is not the same as unaccredited (neither does it entail full accreditation). When institutions are unaccredited, they cannot receive federal funds or transfer credits. However, pre-accreditation status or candidacy enables students to qualify for federal financial aid programs, and it often aids in the transferability of the candidate institution’s credits to another college or university. Candidacy (pre-accreditation) indicates that the institution is in basic compliance with the Standards and Criteria, has been evaluated by an on-site peer team, and in the professional judgment of the evaluation team and the Accreditation Commission, the institution provides sound instruction and student services. While the eagerness to list unaccredited schools is admirable, Crown College can no longer be officially listed as unaccredited. If there is a wiki page with "pre-accredited universities and colleges" then that would be appropriate. However, it is misleading to list them here as unaccredited. See the following links on pre-accreditation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Betakappa19 (talk • contribs) 06:10, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. Thanks! --Orlady (talk) 15:00, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

20:10, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * now done — Preceding unsigned comment added by Agrostu (talk • contribs) 22:24, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2015
please add the following university name in the 'K' List - Kinsale University. They are a diploma mill running fake campuses in the different countries from office suites in USA and other business establishment, namely in United Arab Emirates and India. Their website is "http://www.kinsaleuniversity.com". They are duping unsuspected prospective students & taking away their money, providing Fake certificates. They boast being accredited by IAO & AAHEA, which are not recognized accreditation authority by USDE or CHEA (reference - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unrecognized_higher_education_accreditation_organizations). Their so called campus in United Arab Emirates is AL DEIC PERIYAR UNIVERSITY (http://www.aldiecpu.com/) which also boasts to be campus of another USA based diploma mill Inter American University (http://www.iauniversity.net).

Shopnoakash (talk) 20:31, 25 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. In particular, please supply one or more sources relating to incidents where people actually got duped by that company. Gparyani (talk) 19:20, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Institution to be added to the list
I would like to consider adding "Florida Global University" which claims to be an American university based in Florida, but they are not accredited regionally, nor nationally. Their only "accreditation" is that they are register in Florida Commission of Education, but that's it. The source article is in Spanish since they are trying to scam Venezuelans.

http://www.lapatilla.com/site/2015/06/02/universidad-de-eeuu-exonera-el-80-de-la-matricula-para-la-revalidacion-de-titulos/?fb_comment_id=fbc_852935154798772_853042338121387_853042338121387#f4f0aba44

Here it is their website.

http://fgu-edu.com/ —

--Mundotaku (talk) 03:43, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Note
There has been no discussion since the article was fully protected. If edit warring resumes after semi-protection resumes then editors may be blocked. --Neil N  talk to me 14:07, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 July 2015
I deeply request to add Groveshire university as fake Un accredited University now they are Deceiving Thousands of Students. website : http://www.groveshireuniversity.education/ ,its totally a scam please investigate.

217.164.194.102 (talk) 12:01, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 12:57, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 May 2014

 * The following section was edited out by this edit at 06:27, 11 August 2014. I am restoring it so a bot can archive it properly.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  05:56, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Please remove Akamai University from the list, as Akamai University is an accredited University which accredited by ASIC(UK).

The list of accredited colleges can be found here: http://www.asicuk.com/international-directory/ Useful Link: http://www.asicuk.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accreditation_Service_for_International_Colleges

Siewshyan (talk) 07:35, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

❌ The article Accreditation Service for International Colleges quotes the ASIC website which states that ASIC "neither confers nor validates degree-awarding powers". As this list states "This is a list of colleges, seminaries, and universities that do not have educational accreditation." As ASIC does not confer or validate degrees, membership of it does not preclude inclusion on this list. Arjayay (talk) 08:48, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Remove Atlantic international University from the list
2605:E000:6009:9700:8C61:939E:3DFA:6FB9 (talk) 04:16, 9 October 2015 (UTC) Atlantic International University AIU has been accredited by Accreditation Service for International Colleges ASIC--->http://www.asicuk.com/international-directory/ International Colleges Directory | ASIC

Which Accreditation Service for International Colleges which is

Listed in USA's Council for Higher Education Accreditation's website as an Accrediting Body based out of the UK---> CHEA International Directory-->http://cheainternational.org/intdb/display1.asp?ID=c164

ASIC is a national accrediting Body. One of the 7 Accrediting Body's in the UK and they are authorized and approved by the British Governments Home Office-->https://www.gov.uk/government/world-...on-in-thailand

Please remove them from this list — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:6009:9700:8C61:939E:3DFA:6FB9 (talk • contribs) 04:19, 9 October 2015
 * I'm inclined to decline this edit on the grounds that "ATLANTIC INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY IS NOT ACCREDITED BY AN ACCREDITING AGENCY RECOGNIZED BY THE UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF EDUCATION" (legally required disclaimer on its web site). As a US-based institution itshould be able to get accreditation from a federal-government-recognized agency if it really wanted accreditation and met the requirements to get such accreditation (in this sense, "non-federal-government-recognized accreditation may be worse than no accreditation at all when it comes to this institution's reputation). That, and this titbit that shows that at least one institution knows that accreditation from ASIC is insufficient for its degrees to be recognized by other institutions. davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  03:22, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Removal request for Atlantic International University [additional request]
2605:E000:6009:9700:B115:6497:6203:C5F8 (talk) 02:49, 15 October 2015 (UTC) Hello we are Requesting that Atlantic International University be immediately removed from this list as they are now accredited. Also, they are not located in Nigeria, Never have been. This inaccurate information is affecting the Staff and Students of this University.

AIU has been accredited by Accreditation Service for International Colleges

---> http://www.asicuk.com/international-directory

ASIC is listed in The USA's Council for Higher Education Accreditation's international website as a recognized accrediting Body ---> http://cheainternational.org/intdb/display1.asp?ID=c164

This is in breach of the condition that still put Atlantic International University in the list of unaccredited institutions of higher education. Please remove the Atlantic International University from the list. The article states that these institutions do not have any Higher Education accreditation, therefore this is another breach and they are accredited by ASIC--->https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recognized_higher_education_accreditation_organizations. We are asking Wikipedia kindly to remove Atlantic International from This list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:6009:9700:B115:6497:6203:C5F8 (talk) 02:57, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you


 * I have merged this request with the still-open request above. I also removed the Nigeria statement - it was based on a now-removed reference that had a similar-named institution.  See page 7 of this PDF for the mistaken information.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  04:14, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Ok. Also, we wanted to note that all the references that are linked are outdated materiel as as well as information prior to Atlantic International Universities accreditation. Further note that the accrediting agency is NOT private, they are a international accrediting agency regulated by the UK government--> http://cheainternational.org/intdb/display1.asp?ID=c164. This information is outdated and AIU has since completed the accreditation process and has been awarded. Again, we are asking kindly to remove this information as it's outdated and inaccurate. The Links you have listed for the sources from Mexico is outdated and its not a reliable source. It's from a website archive. We are asking kindly to reconsider and have Atlantic International University from this list mentioned. Please take into consideration that actual human beings such as its students, grads or staff at this University is directly harmed if unfair and unsupported defamatory allegations are made.

Thanks again for your prompt attention in this matter. If you need to speak on the subject to someone personally, you can contact

Thanks again and we hope Wikipedia can get this resolved ASAP. 2605:E000:6009:9700:B115:6497:6203:C5F8 (talk) 05:27, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting question.svg Question: So you are an American university, in the state of Hawaii, but by your own admission on your webpage, ATLANTIC INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY IS NOT ACCREDITED BY AN ACCREDITING AGENCY RECOGNIZED BY THE UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF EDUCATION.. Also on your website is the following line In the United States and abroad, many licensing authorities require accredited degrees as the basis for eligibility for licensing. In some cases, accredited colleges may not accept for transfer courses and degrees completed at unaccredited colleges, and some employers may require an accredited degree as a basis for eligibility for employment.  So what is it?  Are the degrees from AIU accepted by other accredited colleges?  Do employers accept AIU degrees?  It would seem extremely dishonest to remove AIU from this list if their accreditation doesn't actually do anything.  How is that any different from an unaccredited university?  I am just trying to understand how this is any different.


 * In addition, direct or indirect legal threats are taken very seriously here. See No legal threats.  We are volunteers and we will not be contacting any legal counsel.  Claiming "defamation" is a legal challenge and can result in your address being blocked from editing.  In the future please remember that legal challenges such as the above are not acceptable.  If you have serious concerns about content that are not being addressed by the volunteer community you can contact the OTRS team.  For information on how to do so see Contact us - Subjects. --Stabila711 (talk) 21:30, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Some of this came up in the article's AfD. There is "an" organization that gives them some form of accreditation, but that agency is not recognized in the US.  There are states (like Oregon) which explicitly disallow use of a degree from this university.  It belongs on this list.  Scr ★ pIron IV 21:36, 15 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reminder of Articles for deletion/Atlantic International University, which closed as "delete" earlier this month. davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  22:04, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I removed the incorrect "Nigeria" information. Here is a "diff" of all edits to the article page in the last few days: .  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  22:04, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 * asked a question. Unless there is a surprising answer that favors removing this entry for the list in the next day or so, I'll reiterate my original recommendation to "decline" this edit request and further recommend formally closing it as not done, will not be done for other institutions whose only relevant accreditation is similarly less-than-useful to its students and former students. davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  22:08, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I have changed the answered parameter of this request to yes pending the OPs request. It has sat in the edit semi-protected queue for almost a week now and pending a pretty good response is probably going to be declined. The OP is more than welcome to reopen this request with further information. --Stabila711 (talk) 22:15, 15 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The ASIC is a government recognized and CHEA recognized accrediting agency. Since they are based outside the US (in the UK), the State of Hawaii requires the above disclosure if the university is accredited by an agency not recognized by the US Department of Education. That is why AIU places the disclosure. However this does NOT mean AIU is NOT accredited. The ASIC is a government recognized accrediting agency and listed in the CHEA directory as an accrediting body. The ASIC, in addition to accrediting UK based universities, also accredits international universities like AIU. This is why AIU is accredited by them now. By appearing in the CHEA directory as a recognized accrediting agency, the US Dep of Education is in essence recognizing the ASIC as an accrediting agency. So it appears that the disclosure is a compliance issue but it does NOT mean that AIU is not accredited. They are simply complying with the law and required disclosure. If AIU opened an office in the UK, would everyone here then say they are accredited? It seems there may be a bit too much nitpicking going on here. Is UK accreditation somehow inferior to US accreditation? I am sure there are valid reasons why AIU decided to select ASIC as its accreditor, the point is that they were granted accreditation from a legitimate accrediting agency and so they should no longer be listed as unaccredited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.204.115.99 (talk • contribs) 22:15, 16 October 2015‎

In this document: the US Dep of Education and CHEA set a guideline for US accrediting agencies on how to go about accrediting universities outside the US. It is interesting as it poses the question, if US accrediting agencies can accredit universities outside the US then why should not ASIC accreditation also be able to accredit US based universities? See here: http://www.cheainternational.org/members/download.asp?file=pdf/internatl_principles_01.pdf

Also in the CHEA site this document sets forth policies for cross-border higher education. These Guidelines were developed by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) and the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) working with governments, higher education associations, accreditation and quality assurance bodies, and student groups. CHEA supports these guidelines and post them on its own site. As an Agency recognized by its government and listed in the CHEA international directory ASIC and AIU programs accredited by ASIC would fall under these guidelines, protections and recognitions. See here: http://www.cheainternational.org/members/download.asp?file=pdf/UNESCO_Guidelines.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.204.115.99 (talk • contribs) 23:13, 16 October 2015‎
 * Please sign your post by adding four tilde characters ("davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  23:39, 16 October 2015 (UTC)") at the end of them.  This will put your IP address and the date on your post and make it easier to follow conversations. davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  23:39, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Wiki-precedent is that Accreditation Service for International Colleges is NOT an educational accreditation agency with respect to US schools

 * I originally wrote this as a response to the discussion above,, but it is better as a stand-alone comment.

There is precedent from March 2014 and May 2014 for not considering Accreditation Service for International Colleges (as it looked from January 15 to July 29, 2014) an educational accreditation agency, at least with respect to schools based in the United States. In both cases, the request was related to the same Hawaii (United States)-based institution. This is not in conflict with the cross-governmental recognition as the purposes of accreditation in the United States is not the same as in the United Kingdom.

With this in mind, any accreditation, particularly those granted by an agency that is not local to both the institution and to the students that the institution caters, to needs to be looked at from the viewpoint of "is the accreditation really meaningful to students, employers, and other institutions?" rather than "is there formal government recognition of the accreditation authority," particularly in cases where that formal government recognition carries little or no weight with respect to the reputation of the degrees the institution offers. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  23:56, 16 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The precedent being referred too above is not valid in my view. It is a single line of text on the ASIC web site being taken out of context. Specifically it states that ASIC "neither confers nor validates degree-awarding powers". What the ASIC is saying is that they accredit the institution but they do not want the liability of accrediting that the institution is legally able to grant degrees which makes sense since they are not involved in every country or state of institutions they accredit. Now the question is: DOES AIU have degree granting powers, is it legally able to issue degrees from where it is based? The answer is YES. It is based in the state of Hawaii for 17 years and is governed by the state laws for degree granting universities, so the above point is mute in my view. No one is challenging that fact. As to the point made of if the accreditation is meaningful to students, employers and other institutions what evidence is there that it would not be useful? The institution has been in existence for many years long before ASIC accreditation, they must be doing something right as an institution and for their students/graduates. AIU gained accreditation only just recently, about 1 month ago. It remains to be seen the level of recognition this will garner from employers and institutions. Surely it will be superior than during its pre-accreditation history. How would this be different from any other university who just recently gained accreditation, they would not be on this list, even though there would not be any history or guarantee of its acceptance or recognition by employers or other institutions. Many accredited institutions do not accept credits from other accredited institutions. How is ASIC process accreditation or recognition any less that an accrediting agency in the US? I think it would help to do a logical progression of questions.
 * Is AIU legally able to issue degrees from its jurisdiction: YES
 * Is it accredited: YES
 * Is the Accrediting agency government recognized: YES
 * Is the Accrediting agency listed as a recognized accrediting agency by CHEA (US Dep Edu): YES
 * Does it have a track record of operation implying utility for its graduates: YES
 * Can any accreditation guarantee an institutions acceptance by employers or other institutions: NO many institutions do not accept transfer credits from other equally accredited institutions. Many employers do not recognize or value degrees from accredited universities due to reputation and/or bias. 50.204.115.99 (talk) 01:11, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Hello All, I'm looking at this list and it appears to be outdated. Someone really needs to do some research and update this list. There are a couple of other Universities on hear that needs to be removed as they are now accredited. It seems that this list was done prior to some of these institutions accreditation. It really needs to be updated. Some of this information is outdated, links being used as references are dead links etc... This could hurt some institutions as alot of people read wikipedia as a source of information and having outdated/inaccurate information based on editors personal opinions and bias makes wikipedia appear to be an unreliable source. Not saying it is but it appears that way when facts and documents provided are overlooked because an editor/administrative has a personal onesided opinion as oppose to looking at the facts and documents that are put before he or she. Doesn't seem fair. 2605:E000:6009:9700:50FA:9C45:F94A:5D86 (talk) 02:20, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Notice: I have asked for help on this issue at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities. davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  06:01, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Discussion that may be of interest
There is a discussion at User talk:EdJohnston which may be of interest to those following this article's talk page. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  10:34, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 May 2014
This is a page that list out all the universities which are not accredited by "Accreditation Service for International Colleges" (ASIC). I have reviewed the AKAMAI University. The University already accredited by ASIC. Thus, It is breach of the condition that still put AKAMAI University in the list of unaccredited institutions of higher education (by ASIC). Please remove the AKAMAI University in the list.

Reference: - ASIC has been formed to bring independent information to both the student population and the wider Higher Education world, through its international accreditation service with well-defined and objective benchmarking.

http://www.asicuk.com/international-directory/ Accreditation Status of Akamai University: Premier Institution, Accredited,

http://www.akamaiuniversity.us/accreditation.html

— Preceding unsigned comment added by BeyondJiu (talk • contribs) 06:31, 11 August 2014
 * Dummy comment so bot will archive this on the next go-around davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  03:04, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Archiving time changed from 31 days to 92 days
Given the controversy on this topic and given that some discussions continue in new threads and without the old threads there is some important context lost, I have changed the archive time from 31 days to 92 days for future archives. I did not undo the recent archiving, but interested readers should look at the November 14, 2015 revision or just go to the 3rd- and 4th-quarter of 2015 entries in Talk:List of unaccredited institutions of higher education/Archive 4 to see threads related to the recent controversies. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  03:08, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2015
Just to add the American University in Malta to the list. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y01mF8p13tk http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?s=american+university&from_date=&to_date=

Thank you, George

Crossmaltese (talk) 11:07, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Research in progress - the tie between this (future?) institution and the very well respected DePaul University says this should not be added to the list without further research. The YouTube video suggests that there is a relationship with this (future?) school and existing schools in Europe called "American University of [city]" but as this is a promotional video it could be misleading puffery.  In any case, since there is no evidence that this school has opened yet, there is no hurry.  Evidence from other editors that would suggest that this school should or should not be added to this list is welcome. davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  23:44, 18 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment I agree with davidwr. Further research is needed before this school can be added. LRappaport (talk) 04:24, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
 * ❌ premature - wait at least until a week or two before the American University of Malta starts accepting applications. This story says The American University of Malta is expected to take in its first students in October next year [2016] – subject to having all required permits and authorisations in hand.  On the other hand, this story suggests that the institution is applying for a "higher education" license rather than a "university" license, which would strongly suggest it may not seek or may not get accreditation as a university (it may still wind up accredited as a post-secondary institution that grants some other credential, such as a career diploma).
 * This is a controversial institution and it's not out of the question that someone with a stake in the matter or an ax to grind will try to use Wikipedia to push a non-neutral point of view regarding this topic, so extra care is advised.
 * Some relevant stories from the last few weeks:


 * In closing, this institution and the people behind it are at the center of a local (well, "national" but Malta isn't that big) controversy. It would not surprise me if the controversy gets big enough for this school to meet WP:ORG weeks or months before it becomes an accredited, degree-granting institution (assuming of course that it plans to offer degrees and receives the necessary [likely provisional] accreditation needed so the degrees its first graduates get are worth more than the paper they are printed on).  If it does, those clicking on the "What links here" link from American University of Malta or The American University of Malta will see this discussion and can decide if the school belongs in this list or not.  Because American University of Malta is on the "requested articles" list at WikiProject Malta, I will put a note on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Malta linking back to this discussion. davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  18:05, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I think that with the controversy it generated, the AUM is already notable enough to have its own article. I'll try to create a draft of the article when I have time. Xwejnusgozo (talk) 17:10, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Note that if the only significant coverage is considered "too local" by other Wikipedia editors, it may still go down to defeat at AFD. Your chances of having it survive AFD will be higher if you use a wide variety of non-local sources that each provide significant coverage of different aspects of this school or different aspects of the controversy.  As small as Malta is, any source form Malta will be treated pretty much the same as if it were a big-city newspaper or TV station covering a local controversy.  When I did a Google search earlier this month, the reliable sources that provided significant coverage were almost (?) all from Malta.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  21:30, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I created a draft of the article here. Most of the sources are local newspapers (although there is an article by DePaul University and another by Inside Higher Ed, both of which are American). I believe that the controversy is significant enough to merit its own article; this is one of the main controversies (possibly the largest) in Malta in the last couple of years. If this isn't notable, then most Malta articles are not notable either since most have only local sources. Xwejnusgozo (talk) 22:20, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
 * re: most Malta articles are not notable either since most have only local sources - that may very well be true (a claim that WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is implicitly a call to review the "other stuff" for possible deletion). For those articles, ask yourself "If the same topic were happening in London or Washington or Paris, could sufficient reliable, independent, sources be found including enough non-local sources that most editors participating at AFD would not support deletion?"  As for the draft, I've seen it and, while I haven't gone through the references, it looks well on its away to becoming a C- or even B-class article by the time it is born.  Assuming it's got good enough references that nobody will send it to AFD straight away, it will also be a good WP:DYK candidate.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  23:30, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130103083407/http://www.oregonstudentaid.gov:80/oda-degree-authorization-academic-unauthorized-Invalid.aspx to http://www.oregonstudentaid.gov/oda-degree-authorization-academic-unauthorized-Invalid.aspx

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Semi-protected edit request on 2 February 2016
Please help us delete American College of Commerce and Technology from the list. This school had been accredited in April 2015. Here is the prove. http://www.acics.org/councilactions.aspx (please see April 2015 on page 2) Thank you so much!AriaEss (talk) 20:22, 2 February 2016 (UTC)02/02/2016

AriaEss (talk) 20:22, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Verified source given by AriaEss. Further, source provided in article to support claim it is unaccredited now shows it as an accredited institution (http://www.schev.edu/Students/PrivateCollegeList.asp).  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) Please &#123;&#123;re&#125;&#125; 23:59, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 February 2016
Antioch College, Yellow Springs OH

66.203.31.90 (talk) 21:19, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Also, please provide reliable sources. jfeise (talk) 21:37, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Brookside University
Found this fake university online at http://www.brookside.university

This university is operated by one Bishnujee Singh whose profile was deleted last year in Wikipedia due to fraud, scam and self promotion. The public should be made wary of this unaccredited institute to safeguard students from getting conned. Abesam (talk) 00:49, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Institutions who now has accreditation and needs to be removed
This list needs to be updated and the schools mentioned below needs to be removed

American College of Commerce and Technology http://www.acics.org/councilactions.aspx April 2015 page 2 AriaEss (talk) 20:17, 2 February 2016 (UTC)02/02/2016

Akamai University accredited by International Accrediting Body-http://www.asicuk.com/international-directory/Accreditation Service for International Colleges see Chea's international accreditor--》 http://cheainternational.org/intdb/display1.asp?ID=c164

Atlantic International University accredited by International Accrediting Body-http://www.asicuk.com/international-directory/Accreditation Service for International Colleges see Chea's international accreditor--》 http://cheainternational.org/intdb/display1.asp?ID=c164

Delta International University of New Orleans accredited by International Accrediting Body-http://www.asicuk.com/international-directory/Accreditation Service for International Colleges see Chea's international accreditor--》 http://cheainternational.org/intdb/display1.asp?ID=c164 2605:E000:6009:9700:C03B:642B:A7BB:5228 (talk) 04:36, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Verified source given and ASIC is listed as a recognized accreditor in the international directory of the Council for Higher Education Accreditation's. Source verified LRappaport (talk) 04:52, 13 April 2016 (UTC)


 * ASIC doesn't cut it. They stay.  Scr ★ pIron IV 14:46, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
 * While I agree with ScrapIronIV that "ASIC [alone] doesn't cut it," I feel obligated to point out to passers-by that whether "ASIC cuts it" is a matter of dispute. There are discussions on this talk page, on Talk:Diploma mill, and in related places linked to from the above locations.  These discussions have not had as much input as we would like and the dispute deserves wider participation.  Editors reading this more than a couple of months from now should consider re-starting the discussion if the discussion hasn't picked up in the meantime.  The best outcome would be to get enough participants, especially enough who are regular contributors in University articles but also some editors who don't follow University subjects and also some new editors, to have a healthy discussion on this issue. davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  19:31, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I was involved in a long AfD for an unaccredited "university" that this SPA IP was seeing to keep because of ASIC. Fortunately, common sense prevailed.  - Multiple other SPA's and socks piled on - this seriously needs to be handled long term, and not have to peck it out every few weeks that this "organization" wants to recognize its "schools."  Scr ★ pIron IV 21:03, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

There are several reasons why this article should be re-worked and some institutions should be removed. This article is a mess and very misleading. The article should Read “List of Unaccredited Institutions Not Accredited by a US Agency” than reference each school with their accreditation agency and their country (e.g., Atlantic International University, Accredited by Accreditation Service for International Colleges, a Council for Higher Education Accreditation International Quality Group accreditor based in the UK. [this] proves it and it's constantly disregarded and overlooked due to bias. See List of recognized higher education accreditation organizations
 * Comment- Hello Wikipedia, I'm new to your website and came across this talk page. This guy "ScrapIronIV" is funny. That's all you have to say? ASIC doesn't cut it? "this "organization" wants to recognize its "schools?" This does not sound Neutral and sounds a little Systemic bias. What are your real reasons why it should stay? You have not given any ideas. All you have done is make short statements. Instead of bashing, try and find a resolution my friend. Have you taken the time to actually read through all of the talk pages etc.. I really don’t think so based on your short quick responses.

Please see an email from a Council for Higher Education Accreditation representative that sheds a little light on NON-US Accreditation. See thisHe states that there is no Law governing that a Degree from an “ASIC” institution would or would not be accepted. Based on this information “ASIC” is a recognized organization outside of the US. It could be a number of reasons as to why an institution based in the US would gain accreditation through an agency outside of the US, but it’s not breaking any Law. My guess would be because a number of their students could live outside of the US? That is not for us to judge and make false statements as to this institution and accrediting agency. Please remember that accreditation is “Voluntary” and not a requirement, so the fact that these institutions gained accreditation through a NON-US accreditor should not be taken lightly or overlooked in any form. The subject matter is “ACCREDITATION” which this institution has. ASIC appears to have a pretty rigorous process, see this & this This article does not have a definable set of contents. Neither "institution of higher learning" nor "accreditation" is adequately defined; it is therefore impossible to determine whether an institution is a potential member of the list or not. Inclusion criteria on the list itself include an unacceptable self reference to WP:RS. "Accreditation" is a term of art within the context of U.S. higher education, and not a neutral, verifiable quality. This list is inherently un-encyclopedic. A majority of the list's members are non-notable. Other points below that explain issues in this article. 1). Article is too confusing and misleading. 2). Arbitrary Sampling 3). Article’s title should read “List Of Institutions Not Accredited in the United States” 4). There is hardly any Original Research 5.) An article should be created for each school on here and list their accreditation agencies as references, possible in the beginning of the article make a mention that some schools on this list are accredited but by Agencies Outside of the United States. 5.) Per WP:NOT and the need for constant maintenance. It is also vastly incomplete

I say either delete this article and recreate or re-work the title and references as well introduction of the article so this can be more clear and understandable Smooth Lawyer (talk) 04:01, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * An institution located in the US not seeking accreditation from a US accreditation body, but instead going to some accreditation body outside the US which doesn't have any value in the US is rather suspicious. This raises all kinds of red flags. And the institution on its own website says that they are not accredited, even though they managed to get some paper from a foreign accreditation agency. This simply doesn't pass the smell test. Further, it is not clear if that accreditation agency in the UK can actually accredit institutions outside of its jurisdiction. So, I agree with ScrapIronIV that "ASIC doesn't cut it." jfeise (talk) 07:56, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi jfeise please see this document that the US Council for Higher Education Accreditation has posted on their own website. This may answer your concern as to NON US accreditation Smooth Lawyer (talk) 23:38, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * That document doesn't even apply here, because this is not about cross-border higher education. A US-based institution would have to get a US accreditation. This institution doesn't have that and states on heir own website that they are not accredited: "ATLANTIC INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY IS NOT ACCREDITED BY AN ACCREDITING AGENCY RECOGNIZED BY THE UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF EDUCATION." So, it continues to be the case that their ASIC "accreditation" doesn't cut it. jfeise (talk) 00:17, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi jfeise, maybe we got off on the wrong foot, so let me explain what I'm trying to say. The document was in reference to your statement "Further, it is not clear if that accreditation agency in the UK can actually accredit institutions outside of its jurisdiction." How is it that a US accrediting agency can accredit a School outside of the US Jurisdiction? Is the UK inferior to the US? It seems that the what is being said. All I'm saying is that this article needs to be re-worked. The institution can remain on this list, but the title and introduction is inaccurate. Yes this institution does not have "US Accreditation" but they do have accreditation. The article's title is List of unaccredited institutions of higher education where it's kind of confusing. Some of these institutions have accreditation outside of the US that is recognized by their government. So to say that institutions on this list does not have "ANY" accreditation is inaccurate and not properly sourced. I really don't want to get into a battle match with editors on wikipedia. That's not why I am here. I've argued for over 30 years, hence the reason I am now retired. The idea is to make since of this article and for an article to hold weight and to be considered a reliable source, it should be accurate for the readers. Let's please be a little more level headed. Yes, they are not accredited by a "US" accrediting agency as you have already established that, but they do have accreditation by a Recognized "NON-US" organization who CHEA has listed on their own website as a NON-US "Recognized" accreditation agency in which this has been established here-->http://cheainternational.org/intdb/display1.asp?ID=c164 and approved by their government, the Home Office, see this and this. Your statement "A US-based institution would have to get a US accreditation" is objectionable as there is NO such source or law that governs that statement. It has been established that a US based institution that would seek NON-US accreditation appears to have a red flag. That's our own personal opinion and personal thoughts. We need to state facts here. So instead of going back and forth about this, let's come to some type of Neutral ground and resolution. Wouldn't it be ideal to title the article "List of Institutions Not Accredited in the US?" Is this an unreasonable request? I'm just trying to get clarity as to this article and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Let's not argue, but find some sort of resolution. We are all adults here and we will have our own opinions, but let's be level headed about this situation and try to remedy some of the articles issues. That's all I'm saying Smooth Lawyer (talk) 04:53, 6 November 2015 (UTC)


 * No, the article doesn't need to get re-worded. That institution doesn't have any accreditation recognized in the jurisdiction that institution is in. That institution acknowledges that itself. They admit that they don't have an accreditation recognized by the United States. That's all we need to know. Anything else is just a smoke screen. Instead of tring to defend the indefensible on Wikipedia, why don't you initiate the accreditation process of that institution with a recognized US accreditation agency? You obviously have a vested interest in that institution being acknowledged as accredited, so the obvious way is to get accreditation from a recognized US accreditation agency. Problem solved. Until then, they need to stay on this list. jfeise (talk) 07:11, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi jfeise, please don’t make false accusations as to me being vested in this organization. That is a COP-OUT coward act. I’m just stating facts and your statements are simply personal biased opinions. Apparently you have a past history as to the Accreditation Service for International Colleges based on your User talk:Jfeise page in which you argued with Orientalsoul, Doug Weller, User:207.204.229.209, User:A8v and many others about this same issue and seem to have some type vendetta against NON-US organizations. Other countries aren’t inferior to the US. I’m sorry but you really should check yourself and check your statements. It definitely shows in tone that you have some personal feelings when I was simply trying to state facts and be cordial and not engage in a argument. I’m done. Enjoy your day! Smooth Lawyer (talk) 16:08, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * LOL. You are an SPA, you haven't posted about anything else. That clearly indicates that you have a vested interest in this particular institution. I have wide-ranging interests. You haven't stated any relevant facts, but you seem to have time to go through past things from my talk page, which you grossly misrepresent. Anyway, the institution you so clearly have a vested interest in says on their website that they are not accredited. Ergo, the institution belongs on this list. It really is *that* simple. jfeise (talk) 18:46, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

jfeise, Little girl or little boy or whoever you are. Why are you still talking? Stop puffy your chest out over the internet. It's not necessary and it's not that serious. Relax! I said in my last post that I was over this. Your User talk:Jfeise talk page says it all so there is no need to go on about this issue my friend. Apparently you have it out for certain organizations. Again, stop with your false accusations please. It shows when someone hits a nerve, you react, by attacking people and using COI and SPA as a defense. That's a COP-OUT as I said before. For the record, I just signed up to Wikipedia and plan to make edits to other articles (Law, Politics and Education) predominately. I haven't found an article as of yet, but when I do you will be the first to know so you can go and revert my edits, lol.. I will pray for you. Take care Smooth Lawyer (talk) 19:09, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Really, a personal attack? How lame. That makes clear that you aren't a lawyer at all. jfeise (talk) 19:33, 6 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Note that this isn't the firs SPA "lawyer" who happened across one of the "schools" represented by this "accrediting body" to post a wall of text. Fascinating how that just keeps happening. You should have seen the last AfD.   Scr ★ pIron IV 14:16, 5 November 2015 (UTC)


 * FYI, we now have evidence that Smooth Lawyer indeed has a WP:COI. He posted with an IP address and soon after changed the signature once he had logged in: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:EdJohnston&diff=next&oldid=690344361 There are a couple of edits from that IP address, pretty much all related to AIU, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/38.119.54.108 So, he wasn't quite "new to your website and came across this talk page" after all. Fascinating, indeed. jfeise (talk) 00:13, 13 November 2015 (UTC)


 * * Comment Wow, there is a lot of Bias, Favoritism, Bigotry happening on this talk page. It's funny how US accreditation bodies can accredited schools outside of the US, but Wikipedia editors have issues with NON-US accreditation bodies accrediting US institutions. Isn't that a double standard? It looks like the US accredits a list of NON US Schools without any issues http://www.al-fanarmedia.org/2015/05/internationally-accredited-schools-and-institutions/ Why is it a problem that a NON-Us recognized accreditation body would accredit a US based University? It reads as if other countries are subordinate to the US. This is an unfair practice and it makes us appear that we are prejudice to anything that is NON-American. It does not look good at all. We should really look at this issue as it appears to be an ongoing problem. As an outsider looking in, it really looks bad 2605:E000:6009:9700:785C:BE62:FACB:918 (talk) 05:11, 11 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment Wow, there are a lot of SPA accounts desperate to get their Diploma Mills some semblance of credibility on this talk page.  Scr ★ pIron IV 14:32, 11 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment To put it simply, where the law of the land states that only nationally recognized accreditation matters, US accreditation is irrelevant. There were instances wherein national educational institutions taught and offered diplomas in the name of a US college, see e.g. Bard College Berlin (prior to having received German accreditation; it now has double accreditation, both US and German). The Dutch call it "U-bocht construction"; in the Netherlands unaccredited colleges are allowed to teach, but the state does not recognize their degrees (if foreign degrees get granted, they are judged by the Dutch authorities according the law of that particular country). Some countries require all universities to teach only if they have accreditation or temporary authorization from the national accrediting body (e.g. Romania since the study year 2011-2012; a government pardon has been issued to prior studies). Tgeorgescu (talk) 20:18, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Regarding non-US-based schools seeking US accreditation (2605:E000:6009:9700:785C:BE62:FACB:918's edit of 05:11, 11 November 2015 (UTC)): There are several reasons why a legitimate school would seek accreditation from a reputable US-based agency:  1) The home country doesn't have any meaningful accreditation system in place, 2) the school caters to students who will move to America after graduation, 3) it is seeking a type of accreditation, such as "program accreditation", which is not offered in its home country, or 4) the school is fully accredited and recognized as a legitimate institution in its home country but it is seeking to boost its reputation internationally.  Reasons 2-4 may also apply to legitimate US schools that already have recognized regional accreditation.  In any of these cases - whether it's a non-US school seeking US accreditation or a US school seeking non-US accreditation, the first question that needs to be asked is "do employers and graduate schools in that school's country consider the degrees legitimate?"  That's not always the only question that determines if a school is "legitimate" or not, but if the answer is "no" then the school is presumed to be "not a legitimate school."   Having said that, there are legitimate schools that choose to not be accredited.  Yes, I realize the title of this article is List of unaccredited institutions of higher education and not Diploma mill, but since the de facto definition of meaningful accreditation is one that comes with the respect from employers and graduate schools, and the de facto definition of meaningless accreditation is one that does not come with such respect, I think it's appropriate to make these comments on this talk page.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  05:39, 14 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment Good points, the only problem is that we wouldn't know the answer if employers and graduate schools in that school's country consider the degrees legitimate. That's a question that could not be answered unless someone who has a degree from any of these organizations state that they were not hired, or their degree was not accepted into a graduate school because of "unaccredited status." In this situation, a person holding a degree from an unaccredited university would have to contact the school they are looking to enter as a graduate, or ask the employer if their degree would be acceptable. I do know some schools will accept an unaccredited degree based on certain criteria's (Entry Exam or an in-depth evaluation and determination that the school and its academic programs meet standards required by law). Note that graduate schools accept transfer credits and or undergraduate students solely at their own discretion.  All schools and employers have their own criteria. Just like you said "There are several reasons why a legitimate school would seek accreditation from a reputable US-based agency",  but there are several reasons why legitimate schools in the US would seek a reputable Non-US Based agency. Here's some information that some schools do and some don't accept NON-Accredited degrees. Here's a Transfer-of-Credit Survey that Emmanuel Lutheran College a (Non-Accredited School) took to see what colleges would accept their unaccredited degrees-->http://www.ilc.edu/academics/pdf/toc_survey.pdf  This supports my point when I say that schools have their own criteria's.
 * Furthermore, I would guess that an employer or school would accept an institution who has recognizable NON-US accreditation as oppose to any accreditation. This shows that an institution actually went through some type of process to gain accreditation.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:6009:9700:858B:39CE:87D7:BE1D (talk) 06:44, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, I would guess that an employer or school would accept an institution who has recognizable NON-US accreditation as oppose to any accreditation. This shows that an institution actually went through some type of process to gain accreditation.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:6009:9700:858B:39CE:87D7:BE1D (talk) 06:44, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 April 2016
PLEASE ADD: Faith School of Theology (Charleston, Maine; claims accreditation with the International Association of Bible Colleges and Seminaries, not a recognized accreditor)

104.160.221.26 (talk) 01:25, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Daniel Kenneth (talk) 18:18, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

European Graduate School
Why European Graduate School is in that list? I was seeking for clarification about EGS inclusion in a list of no accredited school and I have just received an Official Letter from State of Maine Department of Education. Their official statement, signed by A.M.L. Higher Education Specialist http://www.maine.gov/doe/highered/, states that "the Maine Department of Education does not mantain the list of unaccredited postsecondary institutions. That list belongs to and mantain by Wikipedia We only link to it". http://maine.gov/doe/highered/nonaccredited/index.html. It is my understanding that a definition of Accredited or not Accredited Diploma should have be made based on official Certification and not on Wikipedia information. However, I note that European Graduate School has been accredited as a University in Malta on February 2016 http://ncfhe.gov.mt/en/register/Pages/list_universities.aspx, so this list should be updated by taking off the EGS as they received a recent University status by an Sovereign and European Country (in Europe Bologna process applies). thanks. Claudioalv (talk) 15:15, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Done Per the source mentioned above, EGS has been removed from the list LRappaport (talk) 03:25, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

PLEASE EDIT... - the European Graduate School is still listed, despite the entry above (11 April 2016) saying that it has been removed. I see no green check mark at the bottom of this section - perhaps a final step was accidentally overlooked?

The European Graduate School is accredited by the National Commission for Further and Higher Education (NCFHE) of the EU nation of Malta. "European Graduate School, location of Fort St Elmo, Valletta, License #​2015-007, and Duration of License February 2016 - February 2021 is clearly stated on the second line under "Univ​ersities (offering​ co​urses from MQF Level 5 - MQF Level 8)​" For next citation, after clicking link, click blue box on right "See List of Accredited Courses offered by Licensed Institutions" in right blue box link to download Excel Spreadsheet. See the Excel Spreadsheet which opens on lines #405-412 for the accredited courses at the MA and PhD levels, which are clearly stated.

Additionally, the National Commission for Further and Higher Education (NCFHE) of Malta is recognized by the Council of Higher Education Accreditation of the United States formally as their Quality Assurance Body international partner agency.

Thanks, apk 87.162.74.84 (talk) 18:25, 24 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The article about the institution, here: says it is not accredited.
 * There seems to be significant advocacy going on at the talk page . Other than this particular IP, everybody else seems to agree that this institution is not accredited. jfeise (talk) 19:56, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

This is a friendly correction, which has already been marked "Done" by an editor above, who appears to have accidentally forgotten a final step. EGS is newly accredited in February 2016. This is why a few websites are in process of removing them from their non-accredited list. Providing new information to correct out-of-date (and thus now false information) is not the same thing as advocacy. Here are the primary source citations: "The European Graduate School is accredited to offer the MA and PhD degrees through the National Commission for Further and Higher Education (NCFHE) of the European Union member nation of Malta." The European Graduate School, location of Fort St Elmo, Valletta, License #​2015-007, and Duration of License February 2016 - February 2021 is clearly stated on the second line under "Univ​ersities (offering​ co​urses from MQF Level 5 - MQF Level 8)​" Click blue box on right "See List of Accredited Courses offered by Licensed Institutions" in right blue box link to download Excel Spreadsheet. See the Excel Spreadsheet which opens on lines #405-412 for the accredited courses at the MA and PhD levels, which are clearly stated. Thanks very much, apk.87.162.74.84 (talk) 22:13, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Atlantic International University update request
Can someone please add this note to this institution? This institution is accredited by the United Kingdom ASIC Accreditation Service for International Colleges, an accreditation agency listed in the US Council for Higher Education Accreditation's international directory. However, this institution is not accredited by an agency recognized by the US DOE

I noticed other institutions have notes as to their non-accredited status. Thanks

2605:E000:6009:9700:F97B:3165:87A7:7D1 (talk) 04:50, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Most of the refs you gave don't mention the university in question. I picked one of the refs that looked relevant. — Andy W.  ( talk  · ctb) 07:06, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
 * it looks like your edit was reverted by another user for unknown reasons. Please review.  Andy W. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:6009:9700:9C85:7B05:F36F:E028 (talk) 01:40, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Replied on my talk after post. — Andy W.  ( talk  · ctb) 01:57, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 June 2016
CASTLEBRIDGE UNIVERSITY (HAWAII) FAKE UNIVERSITY (1998)  GOOGLE CASTLEBRIDGE University. Was opened then closed when 4 people received their DR's of Psychology. They Mothballed the Site to avoid anyone else applying for a fake degree. They wanted to keep it small so it would be harder to find and there would be alimited number of graduates 4.

174.95.188.52 (talk) 12:39, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Andy W. ( talk  · ctb) 16:20, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2016
88.204.203.100 (talk) 05:17, 16 June 2016 (UTC) Kingston University : http://www.kingston-university.us/ 88.204.203.100 (talk) 05:17, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅ Kingston University was already listed but I have added a quote from their website "Kingston University Is not accredited by an accrediting agency recognized by the United States Secretary of Education" - Arjayay (talk) 07:44, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 July 2016
My request is the medical scam www.medicmentor.org, charging students to teach them how to get into medical school with no college or university affiliation.

JonnyLaRock! (talk) 08:49, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. It doesn't seem to be an institution of higher education. jfeise (talk) 17:35, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 July 2016
Georgia christian university is now recognizing in ed.gov please remove this school in unaccredit list check it ed.gov link -> http://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/SearchResult.aspx?6d6f64653d5365617263684279496e737469747574696f6e267264743d372f32302f3230313620393a32363a353220414d M9339191 (talk) 03:55, 19 July 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by M9339191 (talk • contribs) 13:28, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Please provide a reference from a reliable, independent, source confirming this. - Arjayay (talk) 05:28, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 July 2016
I would like to request that the institution "Georgia Christian University" be removed from this list, as the university is in fact accredited by nationally- and federally-recognized accrediting bodies, and is approved for operation in the state of Georgia. I am the Director of Planning at GCU, and I submit the following as proof of my assertions:

GCU is accredited by the Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools (TRACS), a nationally- and federally-recognized accrediting body in the USA -- see the US Department of Education list of recognized accrediting bodies in the US at

http://www2.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/accreditation_pg6.html

Our fully-accredited status is noted on their Member Institutions webpage

http://www.tracs.org/TRACS_Members_all.html

Also please see the US Department of Education listing of Georgia Christian University as an accredited postsecondary institution at

http://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/InstAccrDetails.aspx

We are listed by the Council for Higher Education Accrediting as being accredited by TRACS and ATS (Candidate status -- see below):

http://www.chea.org/search/actionInst.asp?CheaID=201310

Our School of Divinity has Candidate status with the Association of Theological School Commission on Accrediting, and we plan to have fully-accredited status with ATS by the end of this year:

http://www.ats.edu/member-schools/georgia-christian-university-school-divinity

ATS is recognized by the US Department of Education:

http://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/agencies.aspx

Georgia Christian University is also approved by the Department of Education of the State of Georgia, USA to offer degrees and certificate programs by the Georgia Nonpublic Postsecondary Education Commission (GNPEC). A search of their School Directory will find us and the list of degrees we are approved to offer:

http://gnpec.org/directory-of-schools/gnpec-authorized-school-directory-search/

In addition, we are approved by the United States Department of Education, under Title IV, to offer federal financial aid to our students, with Federal School Code Number 041565. See the downloadable list of Federal Title IV-approved schools at

http://ifap.ed.gov/ifap/fedSchoolCodeList.jsp

and by US Immigrations and Customs to offer F-1 visas under the Student and Exchange Visitor Program (SEVP). See the US Department of Homeland Security search page at

https://studyinthestates.dhs.gov/certified-school/11362

We would like to see this page edited as several potential students have referenced it during admissions inquiries. Our inclusion on this list may even potentially have a negative effect on our intake of new students. If further information is required to prove the contentions above, please contact me at planning@gcuniv.edu.

Thank you very much.

Matthew Lewis

Director of Planning

Georgia Christian University, Atlanta, GA

Mcglewis (talk) 14:03, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Done jfeise (talk) 17:32, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

International University for Graduate Studies
I removed this school because it's been accredited by the National Accreditation Board of Dominica since 2015. --Steve Foerster (talk) 17:49, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

It says radford univerity is unaccredited and then the source does not even mention Radford Univerity.
Should someone fix it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ilikelizards (talk • contribs) 23:04, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Assuming you mean Randford University (there is no Radford in the article,) the source lists it on page 42, under "Some of these newer DMs include:". jfeise (talk) 23:32, 20 September 2016 (UTC)