Talk:List of venomous animals

Poisonous, not venomous
All of the amphibians listed, along with Pfeffer's Flamboyant Cuttlefish, are poisonous, not venomous. They should probably be moved to another category. 69.230.103.82 (talk) 17:37, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Very good point! Joja lozzo  18:30, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

yes he is correct they are not venomous their poisonous and ther fore you are incorrect and misleading and so i suggest to remove them and put them in a correct category with poisonous animals because this goes against zoology.--Jasonz2z (talk) 20:51, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

poisonous animals
i think since poisonous animals are much like venomous animals that you should it least put in the ALSO section poisonous animal articles cause mabie peaple may want to search sometype of toxic animal and may iccedently think its venomous when the commen mistake is that its actually poisonous. Therefore i really do insist you undo that of which you have done jojo, to better help this aricle.--Jasonz2z (talk) 12:25, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I see your point and will add a note at the top of the article for readers looking for poisonous animals. Joja lozzo  18:35, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

ok thank u.--Jasonz2z (talk) 20:29, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Confusing
Says "not to be confused with List of Poisonous Animals."

My dictionary defines "venomous" as "full of venom : poisonous".

"Poison" is defined as "having the properties or effects of poison : venemous".

Sounds like the same thing, to me. So, why two separate lists? What's the difference?

Wouldn't it make more sense to just have one list, and have both terms direct to it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.92.174.105 (talk) 21:58, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Venom vs poison and other points
Very new to posting on Wiki. Hope this is seen by the writer(s)/editor(s)/talk readers and contributors and I haven't picked the wrong area.

Thanks for creating this Wiki entry. I think I've seen a separate entry for venomous animals as well as list of venomous animals, which might discount some of my points.

Regarding venomous animals: there seems to be whole phylums and subphylums e.g. of invertebrates, missed out on land and sea; like centipedes and cone shells (though cone shells are in the poisonous animal Wiki section but I think should be here). Would you include/add vampire bats to the mammal section for their saliva content? There are several classes of animal which have potency purely based on diet or mixing into saliva and is therefore dependant on circumstances. This needs mentioning/explaining and then either included or not.

As mentioned by a previous, 'talk' poster, numerous mixups appear between the poisonous and venomous Wiki categories and both seem very incomplete and wrong, even given the limit to more general classification (e.g. snakes, without sub-dividing or listing them). Whilst it would be beyond the necessity to list every snake for example, (which would be a great Wiki entry on its own), it would be good to mention the families.

Generally, poisonous and venomous are fairly clearly differentiated. For those grey areas (e.g. Komodo Dragon, Slow Lorris etc.) they can be mentioned as such and explained, even if to just avoid covering them. See the venomous mammals Wiki entry which is quite good for this.

All but a few species of spider are venomous, but many (e.g. Indian ornamentals) have very irritating hairs which would class as poisonous in the same way that arrow poison dart frogs might. There are other animals on land and in the sea which are likewise poisonous. Animals in early states of growth too, e.g. caterpillar larvae, are often poisonous.

Like the venomous mammal Wiki section, it also categorizes chemicals (like the skunk).

There are beetles (e.g. Bombardier beetle) which exude toxins such as hydrogen peroxide. Not sure what the content of other exuderants or acids are, such as octopus ink and goodness knows how many other animals that have poison or venom or similar. Defining poison and venom and other forms of… attack/defense/mating mechanisms (?) should be defined a bit, even if it is your own definition. The limit of what you will cover too and any links for further explanation or depth would be helpful. I think this Wiki category requires more expertise application, explanation, greater length and depth and maybe sub-categorizing into class/order. One assumes that a list is comprehensive unless claimed otherwise or justified with an explanation. Forgive my poor English. Hence I’m not going to attempt such an undertaking any day soon, as much as I'd like to have a go!

Sceppy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sceppy (talk • contribs) 11:21, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Definition, Categorization, Taxonomy issues
Just looking through this talk page again. Some additions. Are venom and poison the same? In a different situation, e.g. pure chemistry, maybe they are the same - just a mixture of elements and chemicals where H2O and H2SO4 are merely chemicals with different properties, but we are referring to animals here. Vitamin C kills some mammals and is loved by others, so it is subjective - poisonous to who or what? By all means join them, but just create or explain your stand point or justification for what you do. For example, anthropomorphisation (?). Does something have to be hurtful, specifically to humans or mammals or animals to be a poison? Would one say that the leaf of a rhubarb (which can be deadly to humans) is venomous? If not, then venom and poison are different. Surely a venom is something that is (deliberately?) injectable in the case of animal venom? What if something is only dangerous to certain animals or others are immune? Or needs to be mixed with another chemical before it becomes a danger to anything (Bombardier beetle)? A rose is a weed in a deliberate growth of nettles, and likewise, venom and poison are subjective. Too much water for a human can kill you. If any part of an animal is harmful to, say humans, is it listed as a poisonous animal – like blowfish? There will be many creatures that are strictly poisonous to eat, but we simply haven’t tried eating them… yet. If an animal derives its poison from what it eats or what its prey eats (some frogs), is it truly poisonous or venomous or neither or both? I think there is a very good case for trying to sub-categorize all the different mechanisms and giving each an explanation and a code, which could then be applied to each one in a list. Or, like the venomous mammals section, putting each creature in a pre-determined and explained category, headed by why it has its own category. This way, poison and venom can be incorporated if desired and no-one can argue with what you do – at most, they can haggle over the order, like taxonomists do, but not the content as you've explained it.

Examples of categories which can even have their own taxonomy and co-evolutionary links. Animals which have poison or venom: Through tubular fangs (some elapids and crotalids etc.) Through dribbling along a fang or tooth (heloderms - gila monster, many spiders and centipedes) From a beak (some cephalapods) Via projection/spring mechanism (cone shells, jellyfish) Spit venom (some cobras) Excrete poison/venom (some frogs) Inject through a stinger(s)/spur (scorpion, stone/lion fish, platypus, stingray, wasps, bees, some beetles) By mixing/indirectly (slow lorries) Via contaminated or diet dependent saliva (some lizards, some bats) Bodily contents (puffer fish) Body hair (spiders, insect larvae) This above list is NOT by any means comprehensive or even accurate. I am not a trained zoologist, just very interested in this area. After a thorough and comprehensive list, they can then be sub-categorized. A tricky job indeed, especially getting all to agree. Maybe using the internet, someone has already done much of the hard work? Attaching codes (for attack/defense/mating/enzyme digestion etc.), how content is detached – teeth,stinger, saliva, skin etc. each animal can have appropriate mechanism codes for quick and easy identification with an accompanying legend. I guess I’m asking someone to give up 5 years to create this aren’t I? I sure do find this almost more interesting than anything else. If anyone wants to fund me for a year or so, I'll have a go!

Sceppy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sceppy (talk • contribs) 12:46, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

...and related/other phenomena
I sure am hogging things. Should electric animals be included? Probably not, given that the title is venom, but my view of such a general category is animals that can kill or do harm, beyond merely biting, scratching, kicking, squashing etc. I would certainly like to see such a mechanism included in such a list, given what I want to extract from dangerous creatures and can’t really think of a much better title than venomous or poisonous animals without some deep thought or new word which encompases electricity too. But electric animals might be equally better suited in a category which has bioluminescene (e.g. some insects and marine inverts), sonar/echo location (dolphins, toothed whales, bats, some birds and other land mammals), stunning with sound (mantis shrimp), heat detection (pit vipers) and other senses (like those sharks have). There is mimicry (in much of the animal kingdom) from simple camouflage in leaf and stick insects, octopi acting like other creatures, butterfly eye spots, spiders mimicking ants to highly complex chameleons and cephalopods changing colour, shape and texture to match their environment. There are many animals which can regenerate limbs too. I’d love to see/do a list of these. And then there are the exceptions lists which are the sort of thing which interest those looking at this type of thing, but little to do with venom itself, unless it is a venom exception. Egg laying or venomous mammals/lizards, mammals which don’t have 7 vertebrae, unique categories like axolotyls, tuatara etc. And then there’s the record breakers – biggest, tallest, shortest, most venomous etc. Animals with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 eyes, legs, arms. I bet I’ve missed out numerous other interesting oddities and categories which others may like to add. I could rightly be criticized for grossly over-extending my remit here, but hopefully it has generated some interest, thoughts and opportunities.

Sceppy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sceppy (talk • contribs) 18:26, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Centipedes
Centipedes should be added, see centipede bite, but I'm not sure exactly where. They are arthropods but neither arachnids nor crustaceans.

Is there any pattern to the sections currently? If so I can't work it out, frankly. Andrewa (talk) 16:05, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

This wiki entry requires a lot of work and needs to expand dramatically or become more general with links to diffent classes and orders of animal. The definition of, 'venomous' is needed (e.g. a method that enables entry - fangs, spines etc., rather than just having poisonous substances within or on it, like puffer fish or some frogs) and the number of animals needs to dramatically increase. It has r3cently been discovered that up to 60% or even more (i.e. up to 2500) of all known snakes are venomous as are squid, octopi and cutlefish, vampire bats, some sharks and more than the 2 American lizards (gila monster and beraded lizard), like the komodo dragon and other veranids. Also a caterpiller. One anachnid at least has a sting in the tail and the claws (or jaws). Currently, half a dozen specific snakes are mentioned randomly. (Dr Bryan Fry - see www.venomdoc.com) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.197.155.74 (talk) 04:30, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

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