Talk:List of video telecommunication services and product brands/Archive 1

Improper removal of photo attribution
Ronz: you've twice removed an attribution to the Tandberg Corp at the bottom of a photo of their telepresence system, the attribution reading: (courtesy of TANDBERG Corporation). This type of attribution and link is the same as that provided to electronics manufacturer Ericsson in this photo caption on the Videophone webpage. In fact the attribution is a legal requirement for both images—I know because it took several weeks for me to obtain their licenses, one of which you arbitrarily dismissed with your "gimme a break" comment on your last revert.

So here's a proposal for you keeping in mind that the Tandberg photo was permitted for use in Wikipedia by them with the expressed requirement of the attribution (verifiable with the OTRS Permissions Group). The images are in those article to visually assist users interested in the subject for whatever reason; many lay people will likely have little previous exposure to videoconferencing systems or videophones and may never have seen any of them prior, so the photos are an asset to both the article and its readers. Fine -but your interest appears to be in eliminating any possible source of 'SPAM', so you've gone ahead and dumped the attribution twice. I feel the attribution and link to Tandberg are fair to them (I have no ties to Tandberg, any like company or any of their suppliers) considering they likely paid several thousand dollars to do their promotional photo shoots, and under the GNU and Creative Commons licenses Wikipedia uses they're entitled to receive irrevocable credit for the use of their material -which you've now violated.

So if you feel it important to eliminate the 'link' to Tandberg, then I won't stop you from doing so. But if you want to eliminate the whole attribution to Tandberg, you can do so only by deleting the entire photograph -which probably isn't a good idea unless you can come up with a better one to replace it with. I've called and written several other companies in the past and got only Tandberg and Ericsson to agree to the use of their photos; replacements for them may not happen easily.

As for WP:ELNO #4 (Links to normally be avoided: Links mainly intended to promote a website), the link to Tandberg is for the convenience of our readers -any supplier's website will explain telepresence far better that two paragraphs on this webpage or our telepresence article, and the chance of anyone going out and buying an unsourced half-million dollar system because they clicked on a single link on this webpage is really, really pretty remote. HarryZilber (talk) 05:40, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I've removed the link per WP:ELNO. --Ronz (talk) 17:04, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Improper removal of software in list
I don't understand why you tolerate advertising, spam links to articles with direct link to manufacturers and commercial websites.... and you remove x times Visiokontakt from the software brand list! Even when deleting all external links, and making it the same way as several many other software in this same page. I also tried to write an article as suggested by one of you, but Wiki people seems to keep on deleting everything even when article is only informative. I would be curious to hear some explanation for such discrimination... What applies to one, should apply to all, or not? Well, after such a bad experience, I won´t look at Wikipedia the same way anymore. A —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.50.124.3 (talk) 01:01, 16 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I can't find any evidence of your trying to create an article. Perhaps you did so through a different ip address?  What was the name of the article?  If you start with some independent, reliable sources that show notability, there is no reason that the article would be deleted. --Ronz (talk) 01:21, 16 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ronz: I've reverted your edit where you (and others) deleted Visiokontakt client software. You can probably appreciate that this is a listing of videophone/conference system hardware and software –notability applying to items in a listing defeats the purpose of the list.   Additionally the opinion essay WP:WTAF doesn't overrule the MOS's guideline section on red links which says specifically: "...many red links are perfectly legitimate, serving to point to an article which may exist in the future, and indeed encouraging editors to create such an article.[4]". Best: HarryZilber (talk) 05:12, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Given the continued problems we've had with spam in this article, I think the article is better without the redlinks. --Ronz (talk) 02:30, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Visiokontakt

 * Note that the VISIOKONTAKT was speedy deleted and then recreated repeatedly, and it is now indefinitely protected against recreation. Haakon (talk) 07:24, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd rather remove all redlinks to make the list more manageable and to dissuade the spammers, which was the exact problem in this case.
 * If someone wants to start a VISIOKONTAKT article with some good sources, I will help. --Ronz (talk) 15:17, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and removed the redlinks, which I've been thinking should be done for a while. Feel free to revert if I was too bold. Haakon (talk) 15:27, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi Ronz, I accept your proposal of help for an article about Visiokontakt. How could we start? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.50.124.3 (talk) 15:39, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It would be much easier if you had your own account, because we'll be using a subpage in userspace to create the initial article. --Ronz (talk) 16:16, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help Ronz. Ok I've created my account. And now in what way could you help me with the article creation? Toledana (talk) 18:05, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've started a discussion on your new talk page. --Ronz (talk) 02:26, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Adding a new vendor
How can I add a couple of new vendors to the list of general software clients, is there any criteria? There are E-Works (Italy) and TrueConf (Russia) which are both offer dedicated software servers along with a public video calling services. TrueConf is a most spread video conferencing solution on exUSSR markets. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.202.225.51 (talk) 16:27, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Forgot to sign in, it was my comment above. Thanks.--Levyakupov (talk) 16:46, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Why no robots?
Where are the telepresence robot service companies in this list? 76.254.20.205 (talk) 18:23, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Cleanup
This page features quite a bit of red links and unlinked entries. I'm going to clean it up per WP:WTAF. Any objections? &mdash; Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 11:35, 21 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Dmitrij, I created this article to allow editors a webpage where organizations could list their products in a structured format with a minimum of promotional, and it has worked quite well over the past three years or so, especially since it keeps promotional material out of the 5 related videotelephony articles. I therefore urge restrain in deleting items in this listing. Instead, simply convert redlinks to bold fonts (e.g.:  Company Name to Company Name). I would agree with deletions only for redlinked items which are highly frivilous.  WP:WTAF is only an essay of opinion, not a policy, and it should be used with common sense. In this particular listing, deletion of items usually does a disservice to Wikipedia's readership.  Best: HarryZilber (talk) 20:50, 21 February 2012 (UTC)  (senior editor for this article)


 * So, this page serves a catchall for spam that would otherwise become articles about non-notable software and brands? If so, I retreat. &mdash; Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 20:55, 21 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Isn't one person's Spam, another person's lunch? /sarcasm.  The proportion of linked items to non-linked items is quite high, so there doesn't appear to be an issue, i.m.h.o.  HarryZilber (talk) 05:10, 24 February 2012 (UTC)