Talk:Lists of former Christians

Who belongs?
I've limited this to people who left Christianity for a non-Christian religion or ideology. That seems more in-line with the title. Some might say those who became Christian Scientists or Mormons would fit that too, but I want to avoid controversies of that kind.--T. Anthony 02:43, 1 January 2007 (UTC) Mormons are not christians virtually all theologians agree and same is true of Christian Scientists--Java7837 15:54, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Many Christians believe that if a person leaves Christianity it shows that he or she was never a Christian to begin with. I think the whole concept of this article has major problems, however the information is interesting. Steve Dufour 06:36, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


 * That's a pretty convenient solution. If Wikipedia took that as a definition, we couldn't list any living person as a Christian, since they could all change religion.--Prosfilaes 17:19, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


 * That is the sincere belief of many Christians, I am not advocating it as WP policy however. Steve Dufour 22:43, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I am going through the list and removing names where the person's WP article does not indicate that they were really Christians, rather than just being brought up by families that belonged to a church. Steve Dufour 14:16, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Does Tom Cruise really belong on Wikipedia's list of ex-Christians? I've never read anything that showed he was a Christian at one time in his life. On the other hand, there are several names of ex-Christians that probably should be included on Wikipedia's webpage for list of notable ex-Christians.  Famous biologist E.O. Wilson is a former Christian (now a vague deist), New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman was as well (now agnostic), Skeptic magazine editor Michael Shermer (skeptic) is a former Christian, as was astronomist/science writer Chet Raymo and British novelist A.N. Wilson.  You might also consider Charles Darwin as an ex-Christian and possibly comedian Sam Kenison as well. Helper, 1:50, 8 July 2007 {UTC]

Barbara Smoker
Her WP bio only says that she was born into a Catholic family. Nothing is said which indicates any personal belief on her part. Steve Dufour 01:06, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Mark Twain
He was certainly a skeptic and a critic of religion. However, his WP bio says that he "never renounced Presbyterianism." He also wrote a book about Catholic mystic Joan of Arc. Christians can certainly be social critics and critics of religion, Jesus was himself. I don't think it is clear that he left Christianity. Steve Dufour 19:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

William S. Sadler
It is clear that he was a Christian. What is not clear is that he left Christianity. The Urantia Book, as much as some people might dislike it, does draw on the Bible and Christian tradition. I don't think we can say for sure that he left Christianity. Steve Dufour 20:55, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I would tend to agree. While his beliefs are all perhaps notably out of step with what some might consider orthodox or mainline Christianity, the fact that Part IV of the Urantia Book is specifically and explicitly about Jesus makes it very hard to say that he abandoned Christianity, at least in some form, entirely. John Carter 13:48, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd have removed him, but he's already gone.--T. Anthony 07:01, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Qualifications for inclusion of "List of former (x)s"
I have recently started a thread at Talk:List of notable converts to Christianity in which I am hoping we can standardize the qualifications for inclusion in such lists. Any constructive comments would be more than welcome. John Carter 14:55, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Mary Doria Russell
I put her back. Although she was never very religious her time as a Catholic is of enough significance to her writing to merit it I think.--T. Anthony 08:04, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Richard Dawkins should not be included. To my knowlege he has never claimed to be a Christian and has also asserted that children should not be put in a religious category, thus eliminating categorizing him as an adherent in his childhood.

Proposed Merges
Someone suggested merging many articles here but didn't create a thread for discussion. I support the merges.-- Sef rin gle Talk 04:45, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You could delete the Catholic list, but a merger doesn't make sense to me. I count at least 34 names on that list who didn't leave Christianity, but instead switched to a Protestant or Orthodox form of it. That's about a third at least.--T. Anthony (talk) 11:25, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I disagree with a merge. There are many former Catholics that are still Christians, but not Catholics any more - ipernar

Cat Stevens
Wasn't he christian before converting as Yussuf Islam? 217.228.126.209 (talk) 15:53, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Could be. I know he recorded some Christian songs, or at least one, "Morning has Broken." Steve Dufour (talk) 17:42, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * But, his entry here stated he had a "nominally Christian upbringing, but never was a believer." Can this really be true? WikiPro1981X (talk) 08:59, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. Just because one is brought up in a religion does not mean that you ever sincerely accept it. Nick Graves (talk) 11:27, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Not all who join a new faith have left their old one
I am concerned that there are certain assumptions made in these lists that may result in some inaccurate information being included. One such assumption is that those who join a religion have automatically left their old one. Such is not the case. I know of a Christian who became Buddhist, but still considers himself Christian. Those who become Unitarian Universalist need not renounce the religion they had before joining. I know UUs who are humanist, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Pagan, etc. While it is typically assumed that a Jew who converts to Christianity is no longer a (religious) Jew, there may be exceptions, such as certain members of Jews for Jesus. The Church of Scientology states that its religion is compatible with the major world religions. When listing someone here, it might not be adequate to cite a source that says someone was Christian, and then later joined another religion, because that person might still consider themselves Christian. It is far better to rely on a source that says specifically "X is no longer a Christian," and better still to rely on a statement to that effect from the person themselves. Nick Graves (talk) 16:49, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I am going through the list especially to remove uncited or poorly cited material on living people. Kitfoxxe (talk) 14:03, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Carrie Prejean
Who thinks that former Miss California USA 2009 Carrie Prejean has abandoned her Christian faith yet? You know, what with her breast implants and all that sort of stuff??? I won't tell you to include her here, unless it is confirmed she has abandoned her faith. WikiPro1981X (talk) 08:50, 9 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm unaware of any church doctrine that says those with breast implants are no longer Christian. Yes, we need to wait for confirmation, and lifestyle choices we may consider poor or impious aren't confirmation. Nick Graves (talk) 11:31, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Jessica Simpson
Hi,

Does anyone here think that Jessica Simpson is decidedly a former Christian after receiving bad press for not apologizing to the Resistance, a Christian activist group, over her music video for "These Boots Are Made for Walkin'" back in 2005?

If all this is true, should we include her in this list? WikiPro1981X (talk) 17:09, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Anne Rice Quits Christianity, But Remains a Believer
See this article for more details:

http://www.csmonitor.com/From-the-news-wires/2010/0730/Anne-Rice-says-no-more-to-Christianity-and-no-new-vampires

WikiPro1981X (talk) 22:57, 30 July 2010 (UTC)


 * It reads more to me like she is still a Christian at a personal level, but has quit the Catholic Church. (And one must always be careful assisting to publicise people who make money by being well known) HiLo48 (talk) 23:39, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Tagging vs. removal
I noticed that uncited names were just tagged with citation needed tags. Instead of doing that shouldn't we just remove the names per WP:BLP? In the end I would actually be in favor of AfD for this page and all the others at Category:Lists of religious converts, but for now I think unreferenced BLP claims about religious belief should simply be removed. Thoughts?Griswaldo (talk) 19:28, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Frank Schaeffer
I noted that the article indicated that Frank Schaeffer had converted to Greek Orthodoxy. I may be incorrect, but isn't the Greek Orthodox church simply another form of Christianity? If so, I belief Mr. Schaeffer ought to be removed from the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryan.gore1 (talk • contribs) 17:59, 8 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm going to remove him and maybe make other changes.--T. Anthony (talk) 04:11, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Lists of former Christians. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060513225829/http://www.rd.com/content/openContent.do?contentId=14938&pageIndex=1 to http://www.rd.com/content/openContent.do?contentId=14938&pageIndex=1
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071006124942/http://cosmedia.freewinds.cx/media/articles/bbc250198.html to http://cosmedia.freewinds.cx/media/articles/bbc250198.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 05:04, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Lists of former Christians. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141003222627/http://orl.usc.edu/about/personnel/campolo.html to http://orl.usc.edu/about/personnel/campolo.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 15:05, 3 January 2018 (UTC)