Talk:Little Englander

Change in meaning
It is a pity that "Little Englander" has been distorted from its original meaning. It seeems there is a need for a phrase that suggests someone who advocates Britain pursuing a pacific and internationalist foreign policy (in the style of e.g. Richard Cobden) and an attitude of good-will and fellowship on the part of England and the English towards the Celtic nations of the British-Irish Islands.


 * Wikipedia is not, however, in the business of coining phrases or trying to influence usage. Charles Matthews 16:04, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Wording
This passage needs work...I've tried my first go at it...
 * "Little Englanders" regard themselves as patriotic. Similar views are alleged to be found in many other countries, cf. United States isolationism.

--198.59.190.201 02:18, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * the term "little Englanders" must be created earlier. Chamberlain refers to it in his speech at the Royal Colonial Institute on March 31, 1897. Here he says: "It was while these views were still entertained, while the little Englanders were in their full career, that this institute was founded to protest against doctrines so injurious to our interests and so derogatory to our honor; and I rejoice that what was then, as it were, "a voice crying in the wilderness" is now the expressed and determined will of the overwhelming majority of the British people." This institute was founded in 1868


 * Internal evidence (US spelling) shows that that quotation has been edited, so it may be inauthentic in other respects as well. PMLawrence (talk) 14:43, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Neutrality
Nothing wrong with this article as far as I'm concerned. Why doesn't the person who flagged this article explain his reason for doing so? Maikel 02:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Move?

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 07:59, 10 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Little Englander → Britisher — —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr Taz (talk • contribs) 23:39, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This move makes no sense at all; see the last sentence of the article, among other things...Cop 663 (talk) 00:01, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose. No reason for the move has been stated by the proposer or the admin who validated the proposal, and since the article is about the term "Little Englisher", it wouldn't seem to make much sense to move it to a different name. --DAJF (talk) 12:09, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The article is specifically about the term "Little Englander," not about a term "Britisher." •••Life of Riley (T–C) 20:57, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong Oppose No evidence is presented that the two terms are synonymous at all. Dictionaries  seem to think they have quite different meanings. --Rogerb67 (talk) 12:54, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Earlier than the Boer war..
The term little Englander was used way before the 1890s, it was used to denote the policy of the period 1820-1870, when Disraeli called the colonies millstones around the neck of England and many argued that the colonies should be emancipated and not supported through the English treasury. The colonies were not taxed, and they were bound by no trade agreements to Britain, and many questioned the benefit of this arrangement... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.230.161.161 (talk) 08:38, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

are often accused of being "ignorant" and "boorish".?
Even though the Wikipedia is not various businesses, these type of sentences do give a hint at a larger intention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.214.20.191 (talk) 11:41, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Is there a Brexit connection?
Hmmm, good question. 79.66.198.244 (talk) 16:20, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Did the term really exist in the 18th century?
The claim that it did, which has now made its way to the first sentence of this article, was added by @Foofbun in https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Little_Englander&diff=prev&oldid=727796008#mw-diffpage-visualdiff-cite_note-1, citing a book called the Historical Dictionary of the British Empire, Volume 2. Alas, I cannot find a copy of that book to check what it has to say on the matter. I view this claim with doubt because:
 * the canonical examples of Little Englanders I seem to come across again and again when I try to research this topic, like William Gladstone and Richard Cobden, were not born until the 19th century
 * many sources even specifically say that the term referred to members of the Liberal party who supported independence for the colonies, but the Liberal Party wasn't founded until 1859
 * I have not stumbled across any quotes from the 18th century using the term when I Google for them, nor any historical figures alive in the 18th century who are described, even retroactively, as Little Englanders
 * I can't find any other source saying the term was used in the 18th century if I google for `"little englander" "18th century"`

I am reluctant to remove the mention of the 18th century from the article without consensus, since I am in no way a historian nor any kind of expert on this topic, I haven't found any sources definitively stating that usage of the term only began in the 19th century, and I haven't yet had a chance to see what @Foofbun's source has to say about the matter. (I think I'd have to pay a visit to the British Library if I wanted to get a look at that book.) Nonetheless, I find myself suspicious that we're saying something that simply isn't true.

What are others' thoughts? Does anyone feel able to definitively say, one way or the other, what the truth of the matter is? ExplodingCabbage (talk) 13:19, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The OED gives "OED's earliest evidence for Little Englandism is from 1887, in the writing of E. W. Watkin." Not the same term, but close. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 14:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC).