Talk:Little green men (Russo-Ukrainian War)/Archive 1

Comments
Were the Little green men identified with specific units? I saw once a list but can't find it again... M. 46.7.56.247 (talk) 00:14, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
 * There is a list of units on Ukrainian page (Зелені чоловічки), yet the list is in Ukrainian. ~ Pietadè (talk) 09:36, 12 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Please, note that Little green men is more of Ukrainian interpretation (cholovichky) rather than Russian (chelovechki). Although similar on ear, the two words have different interpretation in each language. In Russian it is gender independent, while in Ukrainian it implies generally male personnel. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 02:41, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Looks like situation is more difficult. (cholovichky) in Ukrainian is rarely used word (before Crimea events) and possibly means a clothes for babies: http://ilovemommy.com.ua/ua/odezhda-dlya-novorozhdennykh/for-boys/bodi-chelovechki-pizhamy.html while (choloviky) implies a group of male persons. Actually, this fact indicates that the meme was born in Russian-speaking community. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shishkin (talk • contribs) 17:30, 3 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Anyway, where did the word "little" come from? "Green men" was born in Russian-speaking community indeed, but "Little green men" tends to represent aliens (UFO) in US culture. Those are completely different things. Which source was the first to qualify them green men as little ones? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.21.11.95 (talk) 21:54, 25 September 2015 (UTC)


 * "Little green men" certainly and undoubtedly represents aliens (UFO) in the Russian culture as well. The term appeared in Russian newspapers and books in the times of the USSR . The immediate meaning implies their sudden swift landing from out of nowhere "to study or to see to some minor civilization". But the word "little green men' indeed having been born in anti-Putin Russian-speaking community also bears an underlying message of both satirical and sinister nature. The badness saying for itself satire and ridicule of the whole attempt to hide their presence is obviously implicated as of them stealth UFOs being still sighted all over despite their ultra high tech. 176.100.75.131 (talk) 19:46, 25 November 2015 (UTC)Rustam from Russia

We should change the name of the article. They are not "Little". Just "Green man" or "Polite people" (second one is better). Also no "green man" was found on Donbass. Polite people have a lot of special equipment and weapons (like AK100, or Tiger) and no such thing was seen on Donbass, so they a probably just locals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.62.223.168 (talk) 07:51, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * What do you mean, "polite people"? Taking over another country by force is not polite.  There is also no evidence they're locals - quite the opposite. 2.31.162.44 (talk) 18:22, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Funny article
I've nothing against humour (I love it in fact), but is this article supposed to be funny? It's made me chuckle more than once and I'm not sure that was intentional (or maybe it was). Anyway, some of the funnier bits should probably be edited a bit to make it a bit drier and encyclopedic. Unfortunately I can only point out a potential issue in this case. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie &#124; Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 06:06, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

English/Russian/Ukrainian names
The article suggests that the names are equivalent. The problem seems to be more complicated. Xx236 (talk) 08:09, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

How is your Ukrainian ?
The article quotes Ukrayinska Pravda for a rather strange statement from Minister of Defense of Latvia Raimonds Vējonis, that he "has promised to shoot the little green men if they won't act peacefully".

Since the statement is unusual I recently added in the text that it came from Ukrayinska Pravda. Almost right after that edit was reverted without explanation by an IP editor.

I was wondering if the quote from Ukrayinska Pravda is accurate, or if f.ex. the quoted article could be sarcastic or not to be taken literally for other reasons.

Can someone with Ukrainian language skills read that article and assess the accuracy of the information? Thanks. Lklundin (talk) 11:31, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * What is strange that a Minister of Defrense declares killing of possible unidentified invaders? Xx236 (talk) 08:13, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
 * It is strange, given the way it is phrased, as if he intends to do so personally. And act peacefully seems like a joke, considering that the Spetsnaz do anything but that. Lklundin (talk) 19:54, 7 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Ukrainian press is a joke. They don't want objectivity, because it would contradict with their actual intention of falsification and manipulation. You don't need to walk far, check Anatoly Shariy on youtube.77.13.21.8 (talk) 22:51, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

GRU?
Why GRU? These are the Black Sea Fleet marines (810th brigade from Sevastopol). --176.195.4.191 (talk) 08:56, 22 September 2014 (UTC) By the way, the same commission published a report, according to which 22.5% of Criemeas favoured joining Russia. — Pietadè (talk) 09:54, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Really? Do you have a reliable source to back that up? --Iryna Harpy (talk) 09:51, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Member of the Council on the development of civil society and human rights under the President of Russia and head of the Commission of civil-military relations under the same Council, Sergey Kryvenko, in an article ""Polite people" as a new image of the Russian army", published by Ria Novosti on 16 May 2014, expressed his opinion, according to which the image of "polite people" was created by Spetsnaz and it is not correct to transfer it to the whole Russian army. "Polite men" was a special special term for the special situation that was in the Crimea. Transferring this image to the Russian army, is probably not quite correct,"- said Kryvenko. According to him, those special units that were in the Crimea were mostly contractors ..., meanwhile the Russian army is still recruited mostly from conscripts.
 * Well, you don't have any reliable sources to back up "annexation" theory either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.21.11.95 (talk) 21:58, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

"dozens of heavily-armed strangers with Russian accents" Really? Strangers speaking russian with russian accents in a russian speaking region? No way that could be! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.128.166.85 (talk) 10:53, 1 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I think that you have missed the point - they were speaking Russian with a Russian accent, not Ukrainian or Crimean accent.101.98.74.13 (talk) 23:59, 5 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Like in any other bigger country (e.g., US, post-USSR, Chinea, India, etc.), can assure you, that, e.g. Russians (you may substitute the name) living, say 100/1000 miles away from each other may have (more or less serious) difficulties in communicating and understanding each other.—Pietadè (talk) 18:59, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Apologies
After creating the article (on 18 June 2014) I was more engaged in describing the activities of these "men" (BBC's title: "shadow army"), mainly in Estonian Wiki, sorry(?) for that. Divisions are conventional, etc., e.g., regarding gender; women sniper units are known too, and, allegedly, engaged too; on both sides; mixed f-m units are... and they say it is kind of "human" to "paint", say, your father-in-law/mother-in-law, saying her/him that he/her has changed her/his gender and you are ok! with this, change... of "make-up") (meaning: not their anger has made them change their skin-colour). So, adding back "зелёные людишки", being well aware of the meaning of this last word in Russian. Basing on decades of long communications with my friends from Baikal to Kaliningrad, from Crimea to St. Petersburg (this does not include the certain "Godfather" (Volodya), who was then only dreaming of hosting his "co-father" (Silvio) with stolen wines from stolen land... (to be exactly clear, no misunderstandings, Silvio and Volodya were/are the names of my "domestic animal", pets, RIP).—Pietadè (talk) 22:22, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Trivialisation of content
I've removed this reinstatement of the unveiling of statues 'celebrating' Little green men as WP:NOTEVERYTHING. While it's understood that the term was used by both Russians and Ukrainians as a black humoresque leitmotif, it serves to trivialise the actual subject matter for the purposes of an encyclopaedic article. That's my take on it, but I'm open to discussion as to whether it is relevant, and whether it enhances or detracts from the content. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 21:24, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Putin "backing Russian viewpoint"?
The statement that "In March 2014 Putin continued to back the Russian viewpoint" is ridiculous. The official Russian position is Putin's viewpoint, and vice versa. Russia is controlled by Putin. He invaded Crimea, and pretends that the invasion is something else. Of course the official Russian position will be the same as his.101.98.74.13 (talk) 23:55, 5 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I agree that the statement is odd, as Russian viewpoint = Putin viewpoint, aka he's the president. It would be similar to saying "Obama is pushing the US viewpoint". Plus two citations in non-English languages? I will simplify. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:48, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I've reverted your edits and tweaked any POV inclinations in the text for neutrality. I've also restored the title for this section as the comment was directed at a very specific aspect of the tone of the article which can be easily rectified.


 * While I appreciate that your WP:BOLD content changes were essentially good calls, I also think that the change to the lede was overly bold in that it bypassed the sequence of events, and the length of the public denial as to the pre-planning and lack of purported spontaneity. While maintaining a neutral tone is encyclopaedic, WP:GEVAL ≠ WP:NPOV. You're welcome to discuss this further if there are still issues you believe need redressing. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:11, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Little green men (Ukrainian crisis). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140628103722/http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/ to http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

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Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 18:15, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
 * ✔️ Url was redirected, so I've removed the archived capture and replaced it with the working url. Thanks, Cyberbot II. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 03:45, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Request for semi-protection ?
A look at the page history shows a number of reverted IP edits with no WP:RS (and typically also without an edit summary) pushing a WP:POV, e.g. trying to push the phrase "polite men" to a more prominent place.

What level does the IP WP:POV pushing have to reach before a semi-protection request is justified? Lklundin (talk) 19:49, 22 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Let's see how the request for semi-protection goes. Lklundin (talk) 13:07, 23 March 2015 (UTC)


 * How did it go? And what is this "polite men" nonsense? 2.31.162.44 (talk) 18:24, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

The originaion of the name
The name "Polite People" was coined by a blogger Colonel Cassad. Shoygu only quoted this meme. Fedorkov Dmitry (talk) 21:45, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Livejournal is not a reliable source. Do you have any RS attesting to his having coined the term? How do you know that this blogger wasn't picking up on a term already used elsewhere? The term only became globally recognised and used due to Shoygu's use of it. Whether it was in the internet stratosphere in any shape or form prior its popularisation is irrelevant. We're not dealing with anyone's intellectual property, so please read WP:NOR. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:17, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * "About the origin of the meme «Polite People»" (in Russian). It also tells about the meme becoming popular, a month before it was used by Shoygu. Fedorkov Dmitry (talk) 22:21, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Again, you're pointing to a source - REGNUM News Agency - that is not recognised as being reliable. Please read WP:BLOGS. I have, however, removed the attribution to Shoygu as original research. On closer inspection, none of the references say that he coined the 'polite men' meme, or that his allusion popularised it. Playing on a pre-existing term in use and having been the originator are most certainly not the same thing. Thank you for having pointed this out. Cheers! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:30, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
 * "Polite" in what way? 2.31.162.44 (talk) 18:27, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Irrelevant. This is how they were termed in the Russian media and blogosphere, although I've removed the Ukrainian translation and transliteration as original research. No sources cited suggest that Ukraine or Ukrainians used any term other than 'Little Green Men' as being a jocular convolution of the term (and I use the term 'jocular' loosely in its implications). I've also amended the statement regarding their 'polite' actions as it was only used in the Russian and Russophone (or, perhaps, Russophile?) sector of the media. While I can't attest to this being the case, neither do any sources attest to it being the case, therefore it cannot be presented in Wikipedia's voice (i.e., it's entirely WP:POV without reliable sourcing). Should any editors find reliable sources for the Ukrainian language usage and attitude, I am more than happy to restore deleted content on the proviso that it is properly attributed. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 19:38, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Battlefield 2042
https://www.polygon.com/22783382/battlefield-2042-little-green-men-russian-skin-ukraine

Is this notable enough to be relevant? Nithin🚀 talk 02:08, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Reappearence in Donbass
So this entire section is based on


 * A Reuters journalist observed people with Russian accent in Eastern Ukraine (it's a bit like observing people Chinese accent in Hong Kong)
 * Eight men in green uniform
 * An "elliptical" confirmation from Putin about something vaguely similar
 * An OSCE report from 2017, where they observed a large number of men in military style uniform crossing the border between DNR/Ukraine and Russia.

This section seems speculative and poorly supported by sources. Heptor (talk) 21:08, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't necessarily disagree with you. The problem with the section at the moment is that it relies mainly on contemporaneous reporting. When I get a chance today I'll rewrite this section with more recent and in-depth sources from Russian and Western sources. Both Russian state media and Western sources seem to agree that some form of Russian forces are present in Ukraine, so I'll instead highlight the disagreement is more about whether the "little green men" in the Donbass are officially sanctioned Russian troops or unofficial volunteers. --Kwwhit5531 (talk) 22:56, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
 * This section will be very difficult to support by high-quality sources. The titular "little green men" was a toungue-in-cheek expression for a highly visible invasion by unidentified green-clad men, facetiously alluding to an extraterresital origin. This expression isn't widely used to describe other covert operations, by Russia or by others. Heptor (talk) 10:05, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Considering the ongoing 2022 Invasion of Ukraine, will we create a segment of the possibility that "Little Green Men" are in Crimea or in Donbas?
 * Although these are extremely poor-quality reports of Russian Forces without Insignia in Eastern Ukraine, I do believe that it's important we mention these unconfirmed reports in the article.
 * - MateoFrayo (talk) 15:38, 2 June 2022 (UTC)