Talk:Live at the Village Vanguard (The Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orchestra album)

Merge proposal?
A wikipedia article exists for the LRC recording, Village Vanguard Live Sessions 3 (LRC CDC 9013). I created that article several years ago referencing online sources (e.g. allmusic.com) and using liner note / publisher info from amazon.com, etc.

A Wikipedia editor recently added the statement to that article, "...tracks were previously released on the 1967 Thad Jones / Mel Lewis Orchestra album Live at the Village Vanguard." This may be true but contradicts the information provided in the ...Live Sessions 3 recording's liner notes - which states that the recording was made in 1970, November 15-17. However, based on discussions / chats / rumors I have seen around the web, LRC was notorious for "shoddy" / inaccurate album liner notes. If, in fact, this ...Live Sessions 3 album is "just" a re-issue of the 1967 Live at the Village Vanguard material, then I would suggest merging the information in the ...Live Sessions 3 article into the Live at the Village Vanguard (The Thad Jones / Mel Lewis Orchestra album) album article.

i.e. ...Live Sessions 3 is not "notable" on its own if it is simply a re-issue of previously released material.

The songs listed for ...Live Sessions 3 were all songs being played and recorded by the orchestra in 1967 - which seems to support the likelihood that these are from the same recording session (or at least from the same period). It seems unlikely (to me) that the orchestra's set list remained so constant over the 3.5 years between the two (alleged) recordings. Track times for the two recordings also sometimes differ for individual songs - although, here again, track time reliability in liner notes is notoriously prone to error. Even between two 'versions' of the same recording (1990's ...Live Sessions 3 from LRC vs. 1997's "LaserLight" release of the same album) provide contradictory track time listings for some songs:

Village Vanguard, Live Sessions 3 - recorded 1970 November 15-17 ??? Released on CD by "LRC" in 1990 (and by "LaserLight" in 1997)
 * 1) "Gettin' Sassy" ("Don't Get Sassy") – 8:40 (11:07?)
 * 2) "Little Pixie" – 10:35
 * 3) "The Second Race" – 14:45	(10:31?)
 * 4) "Willow Tree" (Razaf, Waller) – 5:00 (5:03?)
 * 5) "A- That's Freedom" (H. Jones) – 9:23
 * 6) "Quietude" – 5:00	(4:46?)
 * 7) "Baca Feelin'" ("Bachafillen") (Brown) – 8:50 (7:07?)

Thad Jones Mel Lewis Orchestra, Live at the Village Vanguard - recorded 1967, April 28
 * A1) The Little Pixie – 10:34
 * A2) A- That's Freedom (H. Jones) – 7:01
 * A3) Bachafillen (Brown) – 7:08
 * B1) Don't Git Sassy – 7:22
 * B2) Willow Tree (Razaf, Waller) – 5:04
 * B3) Samba Con Getchu (Brookmeyer) – 12:17
 * bonus tracks on later Blue Note CD reissue:
 * 7) "Quietude" – 4:48
 * 8) "The Second Race" – 9:37
 * 9) "Lover Man" (Davis, Ramirez, Sherman) – 4:53

I will continue to try to research the history of the (alleged) 1970 November Village Vanguard recordings to verify whether or not they are unique recordings or are, in fact, the same 1967 recordings released previously. I suppose I could try to find a copy of ...Live Sessions 3 and compare it to my existing (Blue Note CD) copy of 1967's Live at the Village Vanguard. I know that would be considered "original research" and therefore inconsistent with Wikipedia rules - but it seems a reasonable (to me) suggestion if no other published evidence / reliable reference is brought forth? If anyone else has good references / confirmation info one way or the other, please add that info here (or directly in the article(s)) Pugetbill (talk) 18:26, 26 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Scott Yanow mentions in an Allmusic.com review of Village Vanguard, Live Sessions... that "...Although the back cover states that those [Thad Jones / Mel Lewis Orchestra] performances are from November 15-17, 1970, they are actually from April 28, 1967."  At the risk of relying on a bit of "original research" for confirmation, I was able to listen to a copy of Village Vanguard Live Sessions 3 today and can confirm Scott Yanow's comments.  i.e. the Village Vanguard Live Sessions 3 tracks were NOT recorded in 1970 but are indeed from the same 1967 live performance as (and are, for the most part, identical to the tracks from) Live at the Village Vanguard (The Thad Jones / Mel Lewis Orchestra album).  I have made adjustments to the Thad Jones / Mel Lewis Orchestra discography and related wiki links as appropriate.  Although it is now mostly redundant, I did not delete the Village Vanguard Live Sessions 3 article just in case someone wishes to (perhaps?) expand it someday to cover all 3 volumes of that LRC Series.  Pugetbill (talk) 09:42, 29 April 2012 (UTC)