Talk:Liverpool Women's Hospital bombing/Archive 1

Ignition
The counter-terrorism policing north "Following discussions with Ordinance Disposal Officers, we are able to confirm that this is being treated as the ignition of an explosive device." https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/police-confirm-know-identity-passenger-22168511 the use of ignition rather than detonation, means that this really wasn't an explosion. See Detonation. --Kitchen Knife (talk) 19:42, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, seasoned observers know that this was the dets acting as an ignition, rather than the IED itself (note the cars parked only a few feet away were untouched; if it had been the bomb itself they would have been flattened). However, User:JeffUK argues ootherwise :p   ——  Serial  19:49, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * With Liverpool Echo being a regional paper, should we perhaps wait until more reliable sources elaborate on this? Solipsism 101 (talk) 19:56, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * No, it's a direct quote from Russ Jackson, head of Counter Terrorism Policing North West. I imagine that's a chap who people avoid misquoting unnecessarily. ——  Serial  19:59, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Full statement https://www.gmp.police.uk/news/greater-manchester/news/news/2021/november/statement-from-assistant-chief-constable-russ-jackson-counter-terrorism-north-west/?__cf_chl_captcha_tk__=xfWjUG_l0yB3B2zACwc6SNrpvPiYHBXgI115EfYKSZg-1636990867-0-gaNycGzNCKU --Kitchen Knife (talk) 20:11, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I meant elaboration of the distinction between distinction detonation and ignition, and what it means for this case. (Really my point was confusing as the Echo doesn't even go into the distinction, so apologies.) Solipsism 101 (talk) 20:02, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Not only do they not go into it they keep on saying explosion and blast, I'd pointed this out to them last night.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 20:05, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Was the explosion much smaller than intended because of the same issue as in the Parsons Green train bombing? Jim Michael (talk) 20:09, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * You don't have to be that seasoned. I spotted it with the first pictures but apparently in some quarters saying no destination is the same as saying no bomb.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 20:02, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

What change are you proposing to the article based on this? JeffUK (talk) 20:12, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Removal of the word explosion/blast throughout with an explanation of what did happen.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 20:15, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Explosion is supported by all of the sources. What do you mean "What did happen", what sources say anything happened other than an explosion? It may have not been a 'detonation' but that doesn't preclude an explosion. (Detonation is a sub-set of explosion,  gas can explode, balloons can explode, etc. I agree not to use 'Detonation' in the article  JeffUK (talk) 20:24, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, many RS describe the attack using the word explosion. It may have been a much lesser explosion than intended, but the video of it clearly shows an explosion followed seconds later by a fire. Jim Michael (talk) 20:27, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Well if you want to rate sensationalist Jornous rather than Explosive Ordnance Disposal Office. Fine "Following discussions with Ordinance Disposal Officers, we are able to confirm that this is being treated as the ignition of an explosive device.". --Kitchen Knife (talk) 20:34, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Sensationalist journos like Assistant Chief Constable Russ Jackson? "As the taxi approached the drop off point at the hospital, an explosion occurred from within car, " JeffUK (talk) 20:37, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Still not up to the level of an EOD officer.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 20:38, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Debris from the car was ejected in different directions. How is that not an explosion? Jim Michael (talk) 20:43, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/15/uk/liverpool-hospital-car-explosion-monday-gbr-intl/index.html Looks awfully explodey to my 'unseasoned' eyes. The only source I can find saying the device did not explode is the Daily Mail, which 1. is the Daily Mail, and 2. in the same article it says that it did explode, and calls it an explosion... JeffUK (talk) 20:53, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

The Sun reports
The non-reliable source The Sun name the cabbie and detail what is alleged to have happened, including the perpetrator requesting to go to a cathedral where Remembrance Sunday events were being held. Adding it here until we get a source we can use. Solipsism 101 (talk) 16:41, 15 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Got it through The Telegraph. Solipsism 101 (talk) 18:48, 15 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Sun has another article they keep updating and changing. It contains a lot of new info (came to the UK no later than 2014 when charged with knife offense). Information about him being born to an Iraqi woman in Jordan and growing up in Dubai has disappeared from the latest version of the article. 2604:3D08:7386:200:392A:5DBD:347E:ED28 (talk) 06:00, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Which is why we never use The Sun as a source. WWGB (talk) 06:19, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I quoted it as a starting point to find the contained information quoted in more reliable sources.2604:3D08:7386:200:392A:5DBD:347E:ED28 (talk) 06:42, 16 November 2021 (UTC)