Talk:Living Australian knights and dames

When knights/dames die
What often happens is that their date of death is put into a parenthetical comment next to their name. That's a noble intention, but the fact is that once they're dead, they come off this list, because it's specifically about people who are alive.

However, that raises the question: Where do we have information about the dead ones, in a handy list? I can't see one anywhere on WP; and that probably accounts for people's reluctance to remove the names of recently deceased ones from this list, as their name will just go into the ether and be lost.

It seems to me that the "Living Australian knights and dames" list (I've renamed it because this better reflects its purpose) is a subset of a complete list of all Australian people who've ever been a knight or a dame. It would be quite a lengthy list, but that's precisely what an encyclopedia is for. Once we captured all of them, it would hardly expand because there are going to be very few more of them (only where the Queen awards an honour in her personal gift. e.g. Sir David Smith; or where the UK government awards a knighthood to an Australian, e.g. Sir Rod Eddington; there'll be no more awarded on the recommendation of any Australian government).

What we need to do now is create a new article "Australian knights and dames" which would include all the names in this list plus all the dead ones.

What we should also be doing is adding all these names to "Category:Australian knights", which currently contains exactly one name. There seems to be no "Category:Australian dames". Maybe the category should be "Australian knights and dames". Or maybe having them separate would serve a useful purpose. Either way, there's some beefing up to be done. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:43, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Update. I've now added 300-odd names to the "Australian knights" category.  I've also created a category called "Australian dames", and added a couple of dozen names there.  I'm now working on an article that will have a full list of all Australian knights and dames since Day 1.  Whenever that was. --  JackofOz (talk) 00:49, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Further update: I've now created a stub for Australian knights and dames. There are a lot more names to be added, but it's a start.  Feel free to add to it.  --  JackofOz (talk) 03:29, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It's now looking in quite reasonable shape, but Knights bachelor can do with some attention. --  JackofOz (talk) 23:23, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

George Cartland died 2008
He died in July 2008 - see, so I've removed his name. He wasn't an Australian as such in any event, although he did have a significant association with Australia. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:23, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Dame Joyce Daws
Died 2007 -. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:36, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Sir Ernest Henry Lee-Steere
He was born 1912, so he'd now be in his 97th or 98th year if still alive. He was Lord Mayor of Perth 1972-78. Google doesn't reveal any date of death that I can find. Does anyone know if he's still around? -- JackofOz (talk) 07:25, 3 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I've added him to the list for now, but I strongly suspect he's dead. --  JackofOz (talk) 04:15, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Sir David Hay
I've found no confirmation that Sir David Hay died on 18 May 2009. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:30, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, there's a death notice in today's The Age. I'll take him off.  --  JackofOz (talk) 04:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I've created David Hay (diplomat). --  JackofOz (talk) 03:19, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Sir William Pettingell
I think it's likely he died some years ago, around 1985-88, but we still show him as living in his own article because there's very little info available about him online. If we can't prove he's dead, perhaps he belongs in this list too, unless someone can come up with a date of death. -- JackofOz (talk) 05:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I've added him to the list for now, but I strongly suspect he's dead. --  JackofOz (talk) 04:15, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * And I now see he died in 1987, as I suspected. However, it's not cited, so if anyone can come up with a cite, that would be excellent.  --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   23:33, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Dame Patricia Mackinnon
Dame Patricia Mackinnon should have been on the list all along, but she's off now. There's a death notice in today's Age, but it doesn't say exactly when she died. -- JackofOz (talk) 07:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Sir William Refshauge AC CBE ED
He should have been on the list all along, but he's off now. There's a death notice in today's Age. His dates are 3 April 1913 - 27 May 2009. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:25, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Dame Edna Everage
I'm of two minds about this entry. It's fun and all that, and I'm sure nobody but irascible and curmudgeonly pedants would get all hot under the collar about it. But still ...   Will she ever leave the list? Do fictional characters ever die? Or is Dame Edna so intimately entwined with her creator that she will die with him? -- JackofOz (talk) 10:07, 16 October 2009 (UTC)


 * And what about Sir Les Patterson? --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  20:15, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Eric von Schramek
Eric von Schramek passed away in an Adelaide hospital on 7 April 2010, following a stroke. Reliable sources (media) will confirm this shortly. Spy007au (talk) 01:59, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I have linked the death notice for Eric von Schramek. See . Regards, Spy007au (talk) 23:22, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

James Scholtens
He died 26 July 2010. . --  Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   18:18, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Sir Bruce Williams
... died in August. He's off the list now. Anyone know his exact date of death? --  Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   23:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * He died 9 August. . --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  23:05, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Sir Edward Cohen (who?)
There’s a belated death notice in today’s Age for Sir Edward "Eddie" Cohen, who's died aged 98. He was born 9 November 1912 and died on 22 June 2011. I'd never heard of him, but here are 3 online refs about him:, ,

There have been half a dozen knights and dames over the past couple of years whose former existence we’ve only learned about when they die, and who should have been on our list all along but never managed to make it because we were not aware of them. I just wonder how many other knights and dames are out there whom we’ve managed to let fall through the cracks. Would the Honours Secretariat at Government House have a handy list of living knights and dames, to answer just such queries? I wonder if they sit there quietly smirking at our pathetic attempts to recreate the wheel from external sources. --  Jack of Oz   [your turn]  02:46, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Centenarian knights
We hear a lot about Dame Elisabeth Murdoch ("grande dame" and so on), with particular reference to her being 102. I don't begrudge her any attention. Well, we also now have 2 centenarian knights. Sir Archibald Glenn turned 100 on 24 May, and Sir Keith Jones turns 100 tomorrow, 7 July. Happy birthday, gentlemen. --  Jack of Oz   [your turn]  11:53, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Sir Thomas North
Died 29 November 2015, but he was never listed here.
 * The Border Mail, Dec. 2, 2015: NORTH Sir Thomas Died suddenly at Cabrini Hospital on Sunday morning, November 29. Loving husband of Kathleen (Lady North) (dec). Dearly loved father of Anne and Helen, deeply respected father-in-law of Alex and Bob, proud grandfather of Geoffrey, Helen, Jacquie, Katie, Stephen, David and Anna and proud great-grandfather of Isla, Lani, Eadie, Tom, Skye, Mia, Chloe, Lucy, Harriet, Ivy, Heath, Will, Charlotte, Alessandra, Eddie, Hugo and Jimmy. May his good works be remembered and may he rest in peace. A private family funeral will be held.


 * Knight Bachelor, 31.12.81, Services to the retail industry. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  04:31, 2 December 2015 (UTC)