Talk:Livonia, Michigan

History and demographics
I think it is noteworthy to add that Livonia became the residential area it is today because so many houses were built after World War 2.

It seems like this article goes to too much length to point out how white the city is. The racial demographics are only notable because the city has barely 100,000 residents (probably not as of 2005 anyways). At any rate we probably don't need 3 or 4 sentences to say what could be said in one.

"Livonia has received some attention..." for its large Caucasian population. What sort of attention, and from whom? And what constitutes "noteworthy attention"? This section should be expanded/cited or deleted.

Every so often, newspapers or TV news in the Detroit area will point out that Livonia is the "whitest city in America," and that places like Detroit and Wayne are predominantly Black. Honestly, however, this always seems like comparing apples to oranges. Livonia isn't a city in the same sense that Detroit is. Livonia is a suburb like the Grosse Pointes and Bloomfield Hills (also very white areas, but with lower populations). --messor 17:23, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

The expression "...has received some attention..." sounds like weasel words to me trying to imply something.


 * It is only notable because of the degree of the racial divide, and how incredibly stark it is, and the size of both Livonia and Detroit. We're not talking some tiny ethnic enclaves.  We're talking a city of both size physically and population wise that managed to maintain a 90%+ caucasian population through its incredible decades long population boom.  That is unusual and thus noteworthy.  Unusual because for a large city as safe and decent as Livonia it is nearly unheard of for it not to attract a significant racial diversity.  You'd think for all of its positives that it would have attracted people of all racial backgrounds, wouldn't you?  And, especially since a huge amount of Detroit's black middle class has left the city, too.  Why hasn't Livonia with all of its positives attracted even a tiny fractions of these middle income families?  It is more definitely noteworthy, whether you like the connotations of such a fact or not is completely irrelevant. --Criticalthinker 10:57, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Regardless of the truth in what it implies, it is not neutral if it is in the passive voice without citations. The demographics section clearly identifies the population statistics.  If the people or government of Livonia have been systematically or deliberately controlling their population, this fact should get its own section with citations presented.  A vague statement of the city receiving "some attention" is inappropriate.  "Livonia is the US city with the highest percentage of Caucasian residents among cities with 100,000 or more residents" is true (as of Census 2000) and perhaps noteworthy alone, but infixing "has received some attention" into this simple factual statement is a deliberate attempt to suggest suspicion.Mal7798 21:35, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, if that's the case, why not simply delete what you see as the subjective part instead of deleting the whole thing? I'll find a citation for you. --Criticalthinker 08:04, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * There's no need for an entire heading specifically on racism in Livonia. If these facts must be included, they should be included elsewhere.  And saying that there is little racism in Livonia today is, I think, more than a little presumptuous. Primeromundo 01:35, 2 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Racism is literally the only thing Livonia is known for, though. Without its racist reputation, Livonia wouldn't even warrant a Wikipedia article. --68.58.181.206 (talk) 20:51, 24 August 2019 (UTC)


 * No one ever denied racism in Livonia. It does exist.  However, I do not believe that it is the whole reason behind the "whitest city in America" statistic.messor (talk) 18:59, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I will point out it is a crucial selling point for most White Nationalist laborer's to gain entry into, the publication Livonia has received because of it in recent years along with white flight of Metro Detroit raise this stance as well. The White diversity amongst Polish, Germanic, Italian and English people's along with it's numerous foundations of education, trade schooling, honor systems and literal rank above others sustains a working environment, and diverse religious institutions as well. The large suburb with a high standard of living and modern health systems mixed with a backed economy and traffic from the growing impoverished from Detroit to other cities promotes trade municipalities and a town security for a common standard. These above honor's and society movement instill a common to follow by and goal to work towards achieving (Thus the number of college institutions and markets) regardless if you are outside the social/political caste of a working job security and receiving the same news and information as others it is still highly appointed by and advertised there by-If you were in the circle that is.. The Lowering populations and increased minorities are expected from the rising current Metro Detroit bankruptcy and a half decade long welfare dependance failed democratic leadership which is going to continue eroding unless affirmative government action ever Actually happens. Home life would be limited to skilled laborer's and trades men however and would soon pass. Rising Hispanic and latino populations have also been hitting further and further northward Michigan seems to be receiving the most for northern states, presidential involvement in removing the borders more and taking no action as well means one of two things to Livonia to expect come next census. "Whitest city on America" is not "Racist" at all, these are all clearly justifiable and guaranteed cited sources based of geo-social and geo-political rivalry at hand, not a skin deep racial hatred. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GenericDrone (talk • contribs) 06:00, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism
There seems to be alot of vandalism attributed to one single IP, is there any way to block it without locking down the entire page? BT14 05:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

added protection, high schoolers are obviously behind the vandalism. Locked until further discussion. BT14 06:09, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, the article is still unprotected. Only an administrator can protect the article.  The semi-protect tag at the top of the article does nothing.  You need to make a request for protection if you want to semi-protect the article. I have removed the semi-protect tag. --Coaster1983 14:10, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Nickname
"The place to be" is Westland's motto not Livonia's nickname.......Livonia's current motto is "People Come First"

Food
This section just seems like blatant advertising...there is no doubt that Bates, Han-D-Dip, and Senate are recognizable Livonia icons, but the part about first day of summer is when Han-D-Dip opens is stretching the truth.....maybe a simple list of Livonia Icons would be better here
 * I agree. It's almost tempting to rewrite the whole section. It doesn't seem the slightest bit encyclopedic; it sounds like a tourism guide Jay42 19:01, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Dani Woodward
I'm sorry, but the random name of a porn actress who happened to graduate high school and didn't actually grow up in Livonia is not worthy of mention here. Does not fit the requirement for notable people as per wikipedia guidlines. BT14 (talk) 20:58, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I can find nothing that states where she grew up, it seems she was born in Livonia and graduated from Stevenson... it's a leap to proclaim she didn't grow up in Livoina. --MichiganCharms (talk) 04:48, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * She may have graduated there, but only attended her senior there. There is too much conflicting information on the web about where she was born, some say Redford, Detroit, etc. but one thing is for sure, it wasn't Livonia. BT14 (talk) 08:17, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Origin of Name
Are we sure that the name wasn't chosen after Livonia, New York? Many Michigan places names are actually names of places in New York State (where many of the state's original settlers came from), which are named for places in Europe. So, are we sure that Livonia isn't named after the village and township in New York which itself named after the region in Europe? Anyone know Livonia's early history? --Criticalthinker (talk) 12:03, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I've added some sources connecting it to the place in New York. older ≠ wiser 13:06, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Whitest city
This is from the Warren, Michigan article. I don't know if it's true. "Another Detroit suburb Livonia, held the distinction of being America's "whitest city" as of the 2000 Census." Since I don't know its truth and don't have a source, I'm not putting it in, but maybe somebody else would like to follow up. 7&amp;6=thirteen (talk) 16:59, 4 January 2009 (UTC) Stan

City or suburb?
The first sentence says it is a city, while the second sentence says it is a very large suburb. These are quite different things. Perhaps it should read that it has a very large suburb. Chris the speller (talk) 21:09, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

It began as a joint Suburb movement to localize sector district's and labor/resource pocket's to prudentially create it a City. Perhaps confusing because it is a Very Large Suburb out skirted some 13 miles by 2 other notable cities. By census and tax revenue and diplomatic ties making the local district a "City" Cities may also be locally considered 'Suburb' by neighboring townships and district assemblies which also revolve around a central point of diplomacy and social political/grotto/minorities pockets (Such as markets, schools, town halls, banks) **If I'm correct anyway** It should be noted it wasn't originally a city (diplomatically or considered) until urbanization and social conditioning made it a legal city township, which the article points to as of 9/27/2013.. Settling and creating largely the township it is today serving a nearby municipality to Metro Detroit. So it is a City, socially it's construed as a "Very large Suburb". — Preceding unsigned comment added by GenericDrone (talk • contribs) 05:01, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I think it’s a city and not a large suburb because there is very clearly a downtown and a residential district. Junipiter (talk) 04:16, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Hinoki International School/JASSEM documents
WhisperToMe (talk) 16:59, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
 * http://www.jassem.org/JASSEM/JASSEM%20CHAPTER%20DOCUMENTS.pdf - http://www.webcitation.org/6Nnmsvdji - Chapter documents
 * jassem.org seems to be the old domain for the school - See http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://jassem.org and http://web.archive.org/web/20130926064034/http://www.jassem.org/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=3
 * http://www.hinoki-school.org/board/transparency/78307%20JASSEM%200612%20Final.pdf - http://www.webcitation.org/6Nnmx1uNB - Japanese American School of South East Michigan d/b/a/ Hinoki International School - Financial Report with Supplemental Information June 30, 2012
 * http://annemhooghart-educationalleader.weebly.com/uploads/1/7/6/8/17684325/2012-13hinokihandbookv02eng.pdf - Parent Handbook (English) - http://www.webcitation.org/6Nnn9FOEF
 * http://annemhooghart-educationalleader.weebly.com/uploads/1/7/6/8/17684325/hinokischoolboardmtgminutes_2011-7-11.pdf -
 * http://files.meetup.com/86856/HINOKI%20in%20Metro%20Parent.pdf - ????

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External links modified
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Semi-protected edit request on 15 October 2018
Please add the Livonia Symphony Orchestra under Arts and Culture. Reference: http://www.livonia.org/list/member/livonia-symphony-orchestra-livonia-1975

Please add Environmental Sculpture by Andrea Blum under Arts and Culture. Reference: https://books.google.com/books?id=DLqZKaoCLtUC&pg=PA238&lpg=PA238&dq=Environmental+Sculpture+andrea+blum&source=bl&ots=0krGvEwAKL&sig=a5eW4EaBc2dTEzn2WFjZLTxtqUA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwir5Jy17ojeAhVn9IMKHVLUBUcQ6AEwCXoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=Environmental%20Sculpture%20andrea%20blum&f=false Ab uno ad omnes (talk) 16:30, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

❌ Please follow the instructions. John from Idegon (talk) 16:46, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Government Section Overhaul
Hello peers,

I have attempted to change our "Government" section to "Law and government" and add crime statistics into that category. I believe that this will allow the page to be more informational to any viewers that are looking for information on crime in Livonia. All information that I have collected is straight from the FBI. The following is what I would like to add:

"In 2017, the FBI reported one violent crime for every 867 residents and one burglary for every 567 residents. On average there is one property crime for every 65 residents and one non-violent theft for every 82 residents. There is a negligible annual murder rate in recent years with the last homicide taking place in 2015 ."

Again, I would like to insist again that this addition would allow the page to have an addition of greatly valued information.

Thank you all, Ppizzo278 (talk) 00:43, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * , hey there! According to this news report Livonia experienced a a 26-percent drop in property crimes since 2013 per the recent statistics published by the FBI. My concern in this case would be that by including those statistics we might be placing an undue weight on the propensity for crime when reliable secondary sources are mentioning the opposite. Would there be some way to incorporate the aforementioned source into your proposed language? All the best! :) &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 01:03, 7 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Of course! The more reliable sources the better! How about this:

""Since 2013, the FBI has reported a 26% decrease in property crimes and a 27% decrease in violent crimes. As of 2017, reports have shown one violent crime for every 867 residents and one burglary for every 567 residents. On average there is one property crime for every 65 residents and one non-violent theft for every 82 residents. There is a negligible annual murder rate in recent years with the last homicide taking place in 2015 ."

Thank you for the feedback!Ppizzo278 (talk) 01:31, 7 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Which is why we require secondary sources. John from Idegon (talk) 01:10, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * "Crime" is not a standard section for a US settlement per WP:USCITY. It's allowed of course, but the only reason I can see for it is for major cities like Detroit, Chicago, or LA; or if crime were a major factor in a city's history (eg Gary, Indiana, East St. Louis, Illinois or Compton, California). Neither applies to Livonia. John from Idegon (talk) 01:19, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

, would that be okay with you? By having it in a hatnote will be able to find the information with accessibility, but it avoids making the content appear to be a Livonia-exclusive problem. &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 02:18, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Crime has been a large part in Livonia's southside and eastside. Any city resident would fully agree that crime deserves at least mention in this article at least, as I'm sure more would argue that it have it's own page entirely. Ppizzo278 (talk) 01:36, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Which would be significant if this article was for the city; it's not. It's about the city and the target audience is the world. It also isn't a newspaper. Reporting on recent trends is what newspapers do, not encyclopedias. I still oppose including a crime section completely. John from Idegon (talk) 01:51, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to agree with that assessment, but it does seem crime is a major factor in the city's history for this case.   Obviously, any community is going to have crime reports, but I guess Metro Detroit as a whole has had its issues.  &#8211;  MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 01:52, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree that crime is more a Metro issue than a local one. I'm not even sure if we have a crime section in the Metro article. But again, every city has crime. Citing  recent FBI stats, or even journalism sources violates WP:RECENT. Are there any sources that discuss long term trends? If there are, that might be encyclopedic as long as WP:WEIGHT is followed. John from Idegon (talk) 01:59, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Nothing on Livonia specifically (just did a bunch of digging), so we could just hatnote it with See also and write something up for Metro Detroit.

Although, if any trend, data, or event happens in the future I will again ask that Crime be fully inducted to the page, but only if it is obvious that it deserves it. Examples for full induction, in my opinion, would be occurrences such as: reported large spike in crime, state-wide/nation-wide criminal activities, notable gang activity (notable meaning has ties to a larger organization like the Yakuza or Cartels), or declaration of a state-of-emergency by the governor solely for the city. Until then, if ever, then these edits are completely acceptable to me. Please ask if you need clarification.

High Schools
Ladywood has since shut down so I think that should be mentioned. The school was given to Madonna University for their own use. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumeliano-Lemlar (talk • contribs) 06:32, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Can you provide a link to a reliable source that verifies what you just wrote? Otherwise, it does not belong on Wikipedia. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  06:40, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/wayne-county/2018/06/02/ladywood-high-school-final-mass/663866002/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumeliano-Lemlar (talk • contribs) 02:49, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2021
Torey Krug should be added to the notable people. 209.148.78.11 (talk) 17:56, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Sir Joseph (talk) 18:01, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 October 2021
Add Drake Ficara to notable people from Livonia, an actor known for movies like Sad Gun and Tenure (source: IMDb) 68.49.69.108 (talk) 15:24, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: No article about Ficara. See Write the article first Cannolis (talk) 18:16, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2023
Livonia Michigan was founded and named by settlers who named their town in New York state after the Livonia provence in Russia. They moved to Michigan, taking their town name with them. 2600:1005:B022:9D97:8885:FC3D:231E:7E3C (talk) 21:25, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 22:31, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 September 2023
Under "colleges and universities," I'd like to add the sentence "Davenport University left the city in 2017. Gimp1616 (talk) 14:05, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 07:13, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Government section
The “goverment” section doesn’t reflect the latest round of redistricting, where the City of Livonia was moved from MI-11 to MI-12, represented by Rashida Tlaib. Stonetire55 (talk) 14:16, 14 October 2023 (UTC)