Talk:Liza Minnelli/Archive 1

Discussion
[Moved new discussion to the bottom]


 * She also has the distinction of having won an Academy Award, an Emmy Award, a Tony Award, and a Grammy Award.

This is incorrect. The number of Oscar/Emmy/Tony/Grammy winners are 7 (or 8) and they include Helen Hayes, Mel Brooks, Marvin Hamlisch, Rita Moreno, and (possibly) Barbra Streisand, but Liza is not on the list.

Liza Minnelli won the Academy Award for Best Actress in 1972 for Cabaret. -- Zoe

Liza won a Tony award in 1965 for Best Actress in a Musical for Flora, the Red Menace. --SeanO

She won the Emmy award in 1973 for Liza with A Z. -- Zoe

But according to Grammy.com Liza has never won a Grammy. That's what disqualifies her from the "Grand Slam". --SeanO 05:14 Mar 27, 2003 (UTC)


 * Ha. I thought she had won a Grammy for the Liza With a Z album.  Good research.  -- Zoe

Actually, she was honored with a Grammy Legend Award in 1990 so she is in fact a "Grand Slam" winner.

Why no mention of her struggle with alcoholism and pills? Her addictions are well known in show business circles and her career has suffered as a result.

This article is terrible. There's barely any info on her life at all!

Liza did a wonderful rendition of NY NY on July 4th in NYC.

She also sang at the Freddy Mercury Tribute concert. She was mentioned as being someone Freddie would have been proud to see there. Anyone able to shed any light on this?

It's a shame that an >

"Minnelli has accused Mr. Gest of trying to have sex with her in his sleep." Ok, who is asleep here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lontjr (talk • contribs)
 * It's clear to me that he's asleep ("his sleep"). (the horror...) Cleduc 02:09, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Evocative of singer at her peak?
Liza's performance on the Macy's 4th of July spectacular was certainly evocative of her at her peak the reason being - it was lip-synced from her 1980s Carneigie Hall Performace - this has  been criticised and demonstrates that Liza can no longer count on her ability to sing - her performances are erratic - some good but more often the voice is not there all recent reviews make reference to this. To lip-sync for a singer is not unusual what is unusual is if they lip-sync to a 25 year old performance. She might as well lip-sync to her mother's recordings - at least that was a great voice. 145.229.156.40 10:19, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Adoption
An "editor" keeps adding incorrect information and has used a link to a movie site that also has incorrect and UNTRUE information about Liza Minnelli that is obviously written by a "fan" - Liza Minnelli has not adopted a child - it is clear that the stories about adoting a child were either a PR stunt or blatant lies spread by her then husband David Gest. The article that the editor links the statement to is badly written and does not provide verifiable evidence as a  citation should under Wikipedia guidelines. This continual addition of clearly untrue information is vandalism and only a figment of some fan's imagination that for some reason wants people to "think" that Minnelli is a mother -  Minnelli has had several miscarriages (some quite far along at the time of miscarriage) but she has not born a living child  nor has she adopted one. 86.12.250.117 13:01, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Tony,Oscar, Grammy, Emmy
In the See also section there is a link to list of people who have won a Tony, Oscar, Grammy, Emmy. But on the page it says she only won 3 of the 4 awards. Which is true? --BrenDJ 18:41, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Game show appearances
I can't remember off the top of my head if she appeared on Password Plus or Super Password, but I was wondering if it deserved any mention. 64.12.116.67 20:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Liza's link to the LGBT Community
Ive racked my brain as much as i can, and apart from the obvious links to her mother and the rainbow, and the speculated but unproven reports of her former husbands sexuality, How is Liza Minnelli so linked to the LGBT Community?? She is without doubt a gay icon, but how did this come to be??

She is known to have Sapphic proclivities,(source: a buddy who was in dance classes with her) hence all the marriages to gay husbands, and, hey, wasn't she married to gay Billy Stritch for a few years, before the last goon?151.197.173.97 (talk) 04:26, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll take a stab in the dark here and say that it may, possibly, perhaps, be linked to the fact that she is the daughter of Judy Garland, whom I have been told is the biggest gay icon of all time. I've heard that the Stonewall uprising, that is, the entire gay liberation movement, was related to Judy Garland's death. Also, Liza is a musical theater star, and gays, at least stereotypically speaking, like musical theater. Andrew Parodi 12:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * She is an active advocate of the issues and she even receievd an award at one of the big LGBT's shows two years ago for that. The clips is available on the dvd for Liza With A Z. Dollvalley 15:23, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a question that only straight people ask, and that no one can truly answer. People will offer their lame "reasons," but the truth is that no one really knows why certain people (usually strong women) become gay icons. Judy, Liza, Barbra, Lucy, Madonna, etc. all have some things in common, but they're all quite different, too.  Let's just accept that she IS a gay icon and respectfully add that information into her bio, shall we?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.211.66 (talk) 16:31, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

This is obviously asked by gay people as well, as my girlfriend of 3 years asked this question :o) I must say that we DO accept she is a gay icon and we did not ask for reasons why, but merely whether there was any historic link that made her such the icon she is —Preceding unsigned comment added by NickiB81 (talk • contribs) 18:16, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Liza's Health
I know she's had several health issues, surgeries, etc. Should there be a section on that or at least some references to it. I thought at one point she was near death?

Signature song
The whole article should be redone, the sections are all out of place, and what is that "signature song" doing there sticking out like a sore thumb in the middle of the biography? Also it has been coded like a separate section while the rest of the sections are not, and they are all supposed to be under "biography". Does anyone mind if we change the article (only the layout)? I am more than willing to give this legend a proper article, because I think this one is terribly amateurish in its layout (not the actual content, although some things should be altered). Dollvalley 09:45, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd vote to rewrite it. Among other things, legal accusations that have been thrown out by courts should not be mentioned in articles. In court proceedings, anyone can make any accusation, no matter how wild, until the judge dismisses it.3Tigers 00:53, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes I agree, although I don't know how many, obviously several people have had a hand in here, because I can't understand how one can put so much effort with the boxes at the bottom, the timelines and then mess up the structure of the page. Dollvalley 15:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Liza contributions
The My Chemical Romance song she sang on should be mentioned in a separate section, and definitely not putting their album under Liza's albums section.`Dollvalley 09:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Page reworking
Ok I have taken some time, printed out the text and rearranged everythign so that at least life and career have two separate entries and nothign it thrown in the article with no time frame etc, also added several facts. Let me know what you think Dollvalley 08:29, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


 * you have not added facts but rather POV (point of view statements) given the fame and accomplishments of the subject POV statements are not needed the article is very poor lacking in citations and references and FACTS in general but your additions have improved the overall format - the trivia section is silly and again lacks any credibility and the few "facts" in it belong within the body of the article. Hopefully an ambitious editor will take it on as a project to improve it and bring it up to the standard worthy of the subject

Why aren't you signing your work and comments? Anyway, I did have to try and glue together the sparse facts that were on the article even though I know I added facts, some might have been buried in POV however I don't think that it is debatable that Pakula and Preminger are among the great directors of the 20th century, not to mention Vincente Minnelli. I did not say anything that is denied by critics. And I do have a day job so I just wanted to at least make the article more than a random montage of facts about Liza Minnelli. I don't understand why you removed the comments about the comments of her debut lead role, as it was lauded. Are you supposed to provide quotes for that if you want to keep them in? What about the fact that Cabaret won like 5 OScars, why take that out? I feel that since mostly Liza is joke to the average reader, mentioning that might put her in a more favorable light, albeit keeping it non POV.

On the other hand I did not feel like altering the page so much for respect of the people who did it before, altho no-one complained or commented against my proposed changes. That is why I left the trivia section. I guess I'll have to watch the A&E bio and take notes??? rrr Dollvalley 18:39, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Image
Thanks to who has bettered the Image section, however, I woudl not say she has softened her image in the 80s, if something, I would say it was at her heaviest, her eyebrows have never been thicker, and her hair was usually kinda big. She still has that style, altho it is more contermporary and not has hard, and it does flatter her. Dollvalley 19:56, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * In the 1980s Liza transformed herself from "an Ugly Duckling" into a swan - whilst she was never considered beautiful in the 1970s but rather "kooky", in the late 70s and early 1980s - she refined her look and with the help of people like Halston she became a fashion icon and photographs of her reflect this and she was referred to for the first time as "beautiful" by some journalists.The pictures taken for the Max Factor campaign by Richard Avedon were glamourous and sexy - her Carnegie Hall portraits were stunning and those taken by Kenny Rogers and her Interview Magazine Cover and Sunday News Cover reflect a glamourous and beautiful woman - she did some wonderful magazine covers during that time, brushing her hair away from her forehead gave a her a much more elegant look -   even into the early 90s by the time she did Radio City she was still looking radiant - it wasn't the "cabaret" look and it wasn't the harsh over-done look - it was a glamourous "natural" look that evolved from the early 80s into her "Results" look in the late 80s. The photographs of her with Princess Diana are an example of this look in that she looks every bit as beautiful and elegant as Diana  yet was a good bit older. When she stayed thin her figure was great and her legs were also very mauch part of her image and were considered along with her eyes to be her best asset - the Vanity Fair pictures in the early 90s were also wonderful. I think she has lost her way and doesn't really care how she looks anymore and does not have good advice - sad really, when you look back on what she was and still could be.  This article needs a few "beautiful" Liza pictures.

You are right, I do wonder what advice she has, because in the last two years or so she fluctuates from total classy makeup to overdone mime mask. She doesn't appear to have aged at all and she still looks 100% Liza. There are thousands of fab pics from the last decades, I'm part of a mailing list group that has several wonderful ones, from her youth too, I wonder how we can get around to put some here, because with the exception of the main one and the red-dress one, the other are just pointless, tho I guess they have been using what was available. What happens to unused pictures? I woudl like to add better ones, I think that the Eva Peron pic is totally useless, but would not want to lose it if we cannot find others or those get deleted. Dollvalley 09:45, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * the Interview Magazine Cover would be a great addition as would be the Richard Avedon pictures for as bad as the whole David Gest ordeal was for her in the early days she did look remarkable although I think he pushed her too hard and she is never comfortable looking "beautiful" There was a picture of her from New York New York in a white 40s style gown that was really stunning as were some stills from A Matter of Time - "Lots of photographs from her "Stepping Out" tour in the early 90s were also great. She has aged well given all her health problems - in European magazines she often remarked on her looks always claiming that she feels that she resembles her father more than her mother - which is true - except when she combs her hair back away from her face she then looks very much like her mother - one off-hand funny comment she once made about her looks was that she had an itallian nose and Irish complexion. I do think that she has terrible advice in clothes now - that white sequined twin top thing she has been wearing for years should be burnt - it is really a shame that she does not have family advice as no matter how you argue or fight with family they still will always tell you what they really think and look out for you but I guess her sisters have their own lives  and Lorna although not as famous works constantly  but looks fabulous, and the other one lives in Mexico and is probably a grandmother now but they were never as close as what she and Lorna were anyway. The Album cover from There is a Time would be a great picture for this article I am not sure what the copyright rules are and find uploading pictures very confusing and frustrating otehrwise I would add a few pics - the article should be comparable to that of her mother which is a very good and accurate article providing lots of references and a wide variety of information that is useful in demonstratign exactly what she is still so famous for- anyway good luck nice chatting about LM. -

Fair use rationale for Image:Lizawithaz.jpg
Image:Lizawithaz.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:48, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Lovepains.jpg
Image:Lovepains.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:49, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Only 58?
From the article
 * Losing My Mind (single) - Sony - August 21, 1989 - Amount: 58

Did her most recent single only sell 58 copies? Or is that thousands? In which case her first album seems to sell too many at what would become 98 million!--Timtak 11:52, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

In other languages
The list of other languages shows that the article is FA in Swedish, but if you go there, you will clearly see that it isn't. Nor does it seem to have ever been. I tried to remove the tag and re-add it to the article, but it showed it as FA, again. I checked the Swedish article and there seem to be no strange codes added there, so I have no idea why it shows the Swedish article as FA. Perhaps a short investigation would be in order. --Thus Spake Anittas 22:09, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed. --Krm500 (talk) 17:38, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Removed trivia
The section below was removed for citation and prosifying work. It cannot return to the article without it:


 * Trivia
 * Minnelli is the most popular selling Western music artist in Iran
 * Minnelli is named after the song Liza (All the Clouds'll Roll Away), written by her Godfather, Ira Gershwin. Judy Garland frequently sang this in concerts, on radio and television.
 * She has had 2 hip replacement surgeries and 3 knee surgeries.
 * When Minnelli received the Grammy Legend Award she became part of a select group who have won entertainment's top four awards—the Academy Award, the Tony, the Emmy and the Grammy. On top of that she is the only performer to date who has made the "six act" which is what happens when one receives, not only the first four awards but also a Golden Globe and a Razzie.
 * Was briefly managed by Kiss bassist Gene Simmons in the late 1980s.
 * On September 30, 1991, Minnelli received a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. She was honored for her career in theater. (Her star is located at 7000 Hollywood Boulevard.)
 * One of only three actresses, along with Faye Dunaway and Halle Berry, to win both the Academy Award for Best Actress and the Razzie Award for Worst Actress (Dunaway shared her award with Bo Derek).
 * Her mother was pregnant with her while filming her guest starring role as dancer Marilyn Miller in Till the Clouds Roll By (1946) (Garland's scenes were directed by none other than Vincente Minnelli). In order to hide her pregnant abdomen she was hidden behind stacks of dishes while singing "Look For The Silver Lining" (However, a small bump on Garland's stomach is visible while she is singing "Who (Stole My Heart Away)?"). She joked with Liza's godmother Kay Thompson, "What a song to sing in my present condition".
 * Minnelli was very close friends with her favorite fashion designer, the late Halston, who not only designed her outfits for her award-winning special Liza with a 'Z' but for other shows and events as well.
 * In April 1992, she performed "We Are the Champions" with the surviving members of Queen as the last number of The Freddie Mercury Tribute Concert. Mercury had admitted that Minnelli was a big influence on him.
 * Liza Minnelli is featured in a song on My Chemical Romance's album The Black Parade. The song is called "Mama", and she represents Mother War, the mother of the album's protagonist, The Patient.
 * Her godparents were Ira Gershwin and Kay Thompson.
 * Liza Minnelli is also described in Loudon Wainwright III's song, Liza.

About her godparents: it is strange that Ira Gershwin would be Iza Minelli's godparent, since he is jewish.--189.29.107.181 (talk) 14:44, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

- Arcayne   (cast a spell)  09:06, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * "Prosifying work". Wow.  "Prosify" is not a word, but I think you mean that you this section needs to be written in paragraphs (or incorporated into the main article's paragraphs) rather than as a bulleted list. --JeremyStein (talk) 15:47, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Um, of course 'prosifying' is not a word, much like 'trolling' or 'agf'ing' or 'wikifying' aren't words. Fortunately, you are up enough on the lingo that the kids, with their music are all using nowadays, what with their hair and the music and the hairpins and whatnot. (lol). Yes, I mean converting the text to paragraphs and providing reliable, verifiable citations. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  16:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Insinuation- encephalitis : -BLP
"She nearly died from a bout of what was widely reported as encephalitis in 2000 after one rehab visit. Not everyone, however, was convinced that this disease, generally caused by mosquito or tick bites, was the true diagnosis." ---A source is needed, per WP:BLP for implying something. So I took it out. It also needs to be spelled out, as I'm not sure what is being implied. Merkinsmum  22:57, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * A superb catch, Merkinsmum. Good job. :) And you are right; without citation, it cannot return to the article. Arcayne   (cast a spell)  23:46, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The thing is, she'd already said that she was in for rehab, so she'd have no motive for lying about the cause of any illness anyway. (if they're implying it was an alcohol-related illness.) Merkinsmum  01:03, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

The whole article ...
... includes a lot of information, but is written in a very bad way. Why not describe her multi-facial career in theatre, music, television and film in a chronological order? Why not describe her artistic development as an actress, singer, dancer and allround-entertainer on screen, stage and television? Why not describe her development as an unsuccessful pop singer to a Broadway diva? Why not describe her multi-facial repertoire as a singer (traditional pop, jazz, pop, rock, show tunes, adult contemporary)? Why not describe her recordings, her film and stage roles, her television specials and her concerts with her explosive style of entertaining? Why not describe her drug abuse, her private life, her marriages, her visits to Studio 54, her rehabilitations, her comebacks? Just have one look at the German article or other websites in general to find more information and to create an inspirational article in a good written style. PS: I'll be sorry, if I've written some mistakes (I'm German)!!! --79.247.136.25 (talk) 04:47, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree the whole article needs some attention. --Lightenoughtotravel (talk) 01:41, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I thought, a new introduction was really necessary! --79.247.133.73 (talk) 11:15, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

I redid the article a couple of years ago, it was much worse than it is now ;) however it is still a bad article. If you look at articles of other artists of her calibre and even just young singers, you have much better articles and they are structured in a better way. The discography and similar lists should be expanded and given their own pages. I am currently creating the long-overdue album pages but I don't have the literary skills to write a good enough article on her using what's in it at the moment. There are too many details that are not important, like her being friends with Katy Manning??? Liza Minnelli has grown up with kids of the biggest stars of the planet who also grew up to be superstars, but we're not making a list of them, and this Katy woman has no place being in the section of Liza's personal life. I can't believe none of her die-hard fans (and she has many) hasn't done it yet. Dollvalley (talk) 20:56, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Tony 2009
Minnelli herself did not win the Tony Award. This award was given to the production "Liza's at The Palace...!". It's like a film wins the Academy Award for Best Picture - but the leading actress does not receive this award. Just look at the Internet Broadway Database. --79.247.133.89 (talk) 07:44, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

First look at the editing talk before making mistakes with using wrong sources! The production won the Tony, not Minnelli herself although she accepted the award together with various producers. --Martin G. Wimmer (talk) 07:14, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but: CAN'T YOU READ?! :-( --Martin G. Wimmer (talk) 17:23, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

By the way: "Liza's at The Palace...!" is a studio album, recorded at Legacy Recording Studios, NYC. It was recorded before the show's run. --79.247.138.5 (talk) 16:12, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

--79.247.162.131 (talk) 09:45, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

"Mama"
Why is this "Mama" song covered in three different sections? --71.205.212.187 (talk) 03:38, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

TV show
Hello, I can not seem to find anything on the TV special Liza had some 20 years ago with a terrific bunch of ladies from the stage. Is there anywhere I can look to play this special?

TV show
Hello, I can not seem to find anything on the TV special Liza had some 20 years ago with a terrific bunch of ladies from the stage. Is there anywhere I can look to play this special? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.37.212.126 (talk) 20:41, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Cabaret? Was she in it?
Well, yes, she was. It was the single role with which most people associate her above any other. Yet would you know it? Not from this article. It has been buried with barely a mention.

One smells the odour of the ignorant PR machine at work. Someone has told her that she needs to concentrate on her other work, especially her more recent work, even though most readers will be ignorant of it. That is the Great American Way... no ageing, no flaws, no diminishment, just eternal life, propped up by rich doctors.

Poor Liza, ever caged by the publicity machine. She shares that fate with Elvis and Michael Jackson, ever unaware that people love her as she is, not the false image created by those who profit from her fame.

To redress this bias Wikipedia could give prominence to her role as Sally Bowles and acknowledgement of her battles with substance abuse. She is no less for those. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.108.81 (talk) 19:17, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

balls?
to whom? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.214.14.63 (talk) 10:19, 27 October 2012 (UTC)