Talk:Ljubuški Fortress

Protected edit request on 27 August 2023
The first sentence under Location section contains WP:UNDUE link with improper WP:Piping and MOS:EGG to "Herzog of Saint Sava and". It was included to make a POV statement. Person mentioned immediately afterwards has its own GA article, and its title Grand Duke of Bosnia is the title person is regarded in historiography. Most of all, this is an article about the fortress, which in-article discussion about persons other titles makes redundant and unnecessary forking.-- ౪ Santa ౪ 99°  22:39, 27 August 2023 (UTC) The first sentence should therefore read: "The fortress of Grand Duke of Bosnia, Stjepan Vukčić, is located on the prominent top of the karstic rocky ridge of the Buturovice hill, which is located at the eastern end of Ljubuško polje."- ౪ Santa ౪ 99°  22:39, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Just as a comment for any reviewers of this request, the page is fully protected due to a content dispute for which there is no current consensus (except whatever consensus may be implied by WP:STATUSQUO, which is not policy nor is it enough to enforce a particular version during protection). I have asked both sides of this dispute to use the talk page to obtain a consensus and as of writing this, neither has made any attempt to do so. - Aoidh (talk) 00:07, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Allow me to make a comment too, to anyone who may find themselves concerned, including admin @Aoidh, who decide not to sanction IP for 3RR. There is no debatable "content dispute" - which almost always implies some broad range of complicated issues regarding prose, wiki-voice, sources. The issue is very simple policy issue, it is an introduction of MOS:EGG wiki-link without prior discussion and consensus, against our staple Consensus policy. Link itself, even if we turn blind eye on easter egg problem, has nothing to do with this article topics. However, I was informed by Aoidh here that my edit-request is not what he expected and that IP and I will find ourselves blocked if we revert further - the warning is really one-sided because what else is there for IP to revert. My concern is that any attempt by third party to fix the issue is now impaired by this exhausting process. ౪ Santa ౪  99°  02:26, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Since neither of the individuals involved in the edit warring on this article and Dračevica (župa) felt page protection was an adequate way to resolve the dispute since (in part) it prevented other editors from being able to edit the article and have expressed no interest in discussion of the content, I have blocked the two editors for edit warring and unprotected the article, which will resolve that concern. - Aoidh (talk) 04:41, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Deactivating edit request as page is no longer protected. * Pppery * it has begun... 13:52, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Santasa, you say that Stjepan Vukčić's title of Grand Duke of Bosnia is recorded in historical records. That is correct. What is also correct is his Herzog of Saint Sava title - the man himself used it in his documents and correspondence. It is of no less importance that the first title. In fact, it might very well be of greater importance for Stjepan since it was one of the ways he could display his power and autonomy from the crown. 93.87.123.180 (talk) 17:33, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Author of Vukčić's biography, great Serbian medievalist, Sima Čiirković had this to say about Stjepans titles in his book "Herceg Stefan i njegovo doba": "Uzimanje herceške titule od strane Stefana jedva da je imalo i onaj simbolični značaj koji mu se pripisuje, Stefan je formalno do kraja života ostao „veliki vojvoda rusaga bosanskog"." There is lots more about that title in Sima Čirković's biography of Stjepan, where he traces back and explains that the title possible origins and meanings, and mostly describes it just as Stjepan's charade, and ultimately concluded his writing on that subject in above words (I took out a quote, word-to-word). But the most important thing is that this is an article about the fortress, and bringing up one man's entire title style is unnecessary and off-topic. ౪ Santa ౪  99°  17:51, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Not to mention abuse with WP:piping by creating WP:EGG link - it's inacceptable and in breach of both guidelines. ౪ Santa ౪  99°  07:09, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Could you tell me on what page is that on? 93.87.123.180 (talk) 18:54, 4 September 2023 (UTC)