Talk:Llandudno

Capetown
A neighborhood of Cape town is also called "llandudno" this requires a disambiguation --Aliwalla 11:03, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * What's the Wikilink to the Capetown-related article?


 * Atlant 11:07, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I think I put a hatnote on here but it was removed&mdash;I can't see it in the hisotry now. Although, I didn't get round to creating an article about the Cape Town suburb as there isn't much to say that I know.
 * Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley talk contrib 12:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Llandudno, Cape Town, but there was nothing there until I created a stub a few seconds ago... Zaian 15:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Links
I have received abuse for removing a link to a commerial site. As others are also removing it, please join the discussion and state why this link is being removed. Soaring high 20:22, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * There are, I have learnt this morning, two "Llandudno" forums and there seems to be a "war" between them. One of the forums had its link left at the head of the wiki external links list while the other was repeatedly deleted and I gather that is a major source of complaint. I have deleated the other link. NoelWalley 08:00, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Which may explain why I have received extreme abuse for removing the link. This is not a place for such behaviour.Soaring high 10:15, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * As far as I can see from my own previous visits to both of the sites concerned, neither site/forum is a commercial venture so I don't quite understand why either link was removed in the first place, as they are both very relevant to Llandudno? Davellandudno 12:15, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I note in the page history that user Soaring high answered my question and then deleted his/her answer. I have to say I do find it odd that the user Soaring high only joined on the 19th July and their sole 'contribution' to Wikipedia since they joined has been repeatedly deleting links to the Llandudno Enthusiasts site/forum. I think it's fair to say that personal vendettas have no place in Wikipedia? Whilst it may be argued by some that the www.olle.co.uk site is a commercial venture due to its links to an ebay page (albeit to raise funds for the not-for-profit Llandudno Enthusiasts organisation), I can't see how the link to the www.llandudno-forum.co.uk discussion forum can be considered unacceptable, as it is a unique resource of information as regards Llandudno's history. The 'other' forum, www.llandudno-forum.com has a more political feel to its discussions but is just as relevant in its own way. I would consider that both forums are suitable for inclusion on the grounds that they are "sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article". I would appreciate other users' viewpoints on this matter. Whilst we are on the subject, should commercial ventures such as Venue Cymru and the North Wales Pioneer newspaper be allowed to have an external link? All opinions welcome. Davellandudno 17:53, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I would remind "Dave Llandudno" that both forums are just that and therefore uncontrolled. This is not good material for an encyclopedia and he knows that they are specifically forbidden by the rules of Wikipedia NoelWalley 21:07, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I accept that point, for some reason I missed the specific mention of 'discussion forums' when I initially read the external links guide. Davellandudno 16:04, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

"Dave Llandudno" I am not sure I follow your reasoning. I removed a link to a site that you agree is commercial. The first link on the front page of the site goes straight to an eBay shop. As NoelWalley says, it appears that an editing war broke out between two Llandudno sites, resulting in at least one party removing links to other organisations which is simple vandalism. I take your point about personal vendettas which is why I have not responded to extreme personal abuse I reecived from somebody who describes himself as the Editor (correction: Founder Member) of one of the sites Soaring high 07:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't agree that the site was commercial, I said that it could be argued that it was. Equally, it could be strongly argued that it was not! I still find it rather odd that you have apparently joined Wikipedia not to contribute anything of substance but just to perpetuate some sort of agenda you have against this caollerton person. A glance at your history confirms this Again, I would state that Wikipedia is not the place for such behaviour.  Davellandudno 16:04, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I had no idea who this person was until he started posting abuse. I could have just posted as an anonymous poster if I was doing what you are implying. Equally I could point out that the bulk of your contributions seem to be about this subject, what are we to make of your agenda? Wikipedia is not a place to promote friends etc Soaring high 16:58, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * "the bulk of your contributions seem to be about this subject" - that is a complete fabrication. Look at my history - I have contributed information/photographs on a range of topics, including an extensive article on the history of Llandudno's Pier Pavilion theatre. Resorting to untruths will do you no favours, I'm afraid, as the facts speak for themselves. As regards 'friends', I do not know either of the protagonists personally but have felt all along that is important that we have a 'level playing field' on this issue - either all links to forums should be removed or none of them. We have now established that links to any type of discussion forums are not permitted, so this is the policy that we must all implement in future. Davellandudno 13:37, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Davellandudno - I have no interest in your history. You attempted to smear me, and have attempted to do so again. There is no need for us to have any further discussion.Soaring high 14:48, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, the old 'I have no interest in further discussion' tactic, long favoured by those who have lost the argument! :-) Ok, Jon, we'll leave it at that, shall we? Davellandudno 16:35, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * there isn't an argument to lose, if there was, you just did. Soaring high 19:00, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Llandudno Brigade
I hadn't heard that there nwas a formed "Llandudno Brigade" during World War one. I know that many of the town's men were in the Royal Welch Fusiliers, but have not heard reference to the "Llandudno Brigade" before. Does anybody have further information? Soaring high 10:40, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Ivor Wynne Jones calls it the Llandudno Brigade several times but he also calls it the the 1st (North Wales) Brigade. Assuming that to have been the proper title, I have edited the paragraph and added a citation. NoelWalley 17:33, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Ceremonial County
The Ceremonial County is shown as Clwyd. Isn't it Conwy? Soaring high 13:24, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Clwyd is correct. Conwy is the admin county. NoelWalley 17:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Llandudno forums
As the Llandudno forums seem to be causing so much disruption to this page, I suggest that all links to them, in any form, are removed permanently? Soaring high 15:53, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * there seems to be more silliness emanating from these forums. Again, I suggest that they are prevented from linking permanently.Soaring high 13:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It also looks as if they are slandering/libelling somebody Soaring high 13:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It is libel not the much lesser offence of slander NoelWalley 17:18, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Right i've only just stumbled upon this this talk page, it is clear from what your saying forums are not permitted. I will however be removing all advertising from the Llandudno Enthusiast website at www.olle.co.uk in the near future in order to comply with these guidelines mentioned. OLLE is principally an information site with anything/everything Llandudno, we are a non-profit group/society, whether our homesite has a link to our forum should be disregarded so long as i'm not offering a direct link to it on Wiki. The forum is an integral part of one of many sections of our website so there is nothing I can do about this, though like I say, all advertising will be removed. I am not doing this for self-interests, but for the interests of those reading wiki who are simply looking to learn more about Llandudno, whether it be information, photos, research or reminiscing, we are a one stop shop for all and need everyones support on this.

I can confirm we have been subject to personal attack from Soaring high, who has been responsible for removing our web link persistently, though initially he decided to keep the latter. Can I remind those who are administering the links and calling Llandudno Enthusiasts commercial which we are not, yet allowing the likes of North Wales Theatre to remain on, a profiteering business.

All links have since been removed by another member, I will be adding our OLLE link at a later date once we have removed advertising from our site. If anyone has an issue with this, please say.

Caollerton 09:26, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I have taken a look at your "forum". Content includes a highly personal attack by you on an individual also named on these pages presumably by you or one of your forum members. It most certainly does not merit a link here Soaring high 07:18, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The way I see the relevant policies and guidelines. Under external links only links of the article subject should go, not links of organizations and events in the town. These could go into the articles about those organizations and events should those be notable enough.


 * Another matter is if those links are used as references to statement in the articles. Then the question arises if the link qualifies as a reliable source. Self published websites do only qualify as a reliable source if the are by an "expert", i.e. a website of a professor is as good as any of his books. If that is the case the should be placed under references preferably as inline references.


 * Thirdly most importantly: never ever place links to your website or a website you control onto an article. Proper procedure would be to suggest it on the talkpage and let an uninvolved party check relevance and reliability. Agathoclea 13:04, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The article is unprotected now. I trust all has calmed down by now. Agathoclea 23:13, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Links (again)
I have again removed external links to a Llandudno forum (which breaches no 10 of these guidelines) and to Tudno FM (breach of no 13, possibly others). (Tudno FM itself needs some work, but that's another matter). I have left a message on the talk page of the IP that readded them, together with a note that removing inappropriate external links is not vandalism. BencherliteTalk 22:20, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose that Llandudno lifeboat be merged into Llandudno. I think that there is probably insufficient material concerning the Lllandudno lifeboat to merit an individual article. I think the current data could be adequately covered in the Llandudno lifeboat section of this article. Ka Faraq Gatri (talk) 13:23, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
 * there is already an existing article Llandudno Lifeboat Station which has and can be further expanded. The existing Llandudno article is already big enough! Removed tag from article. Rgds, --Trident13 (talk) 12:11, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:53, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Maesdu Park.jpg

Llandudno Pronunciation
While the English IPA transcribes the pronunciation of Llandudno as being, it might be worth mentioning that most people outside Wales (and to a lesser extent non-Welsh speakers in Wales) do not always use this pronunciation despite this article indicating that is the case. I'm saying this because the pronunciation of Llandudno itself is rather variable being a commonly mispronounced place name in the UK as many English speakers pronounce it either as, , or pronouncing the "Llan" bit as  or. So this to me demonstrates many inconsistencies in the English pronunciation of Llandudno while the Welsh pronunciation is more consistent because is usually used throughout North Wales (matching with the audio sample I added earlier) while  would be more common in the south (which Help:IPA/Welsh explains), which is why a part of me believes only the Welsh IPA transcription should stay in this article. I think if the English transcription is to stay here, it would be worth mentioning in a note that the English pronunciation can vary both with the IPA transcription currently provided in the article and the examples I have provided above. Broman178 (talk) 20:50, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

I agree with the above that the English pronunciation shouldn't be there, any pronunciation differing from the Welsh is a mispronunciation and it should be made clear that although some people may pronounce it differently these are not correct. Unlike some places which have an official anglicized name such as Cardiff, Llandudno is Welsh only and is the only accepted form of the name in English, for example, BBC Wales reporters on English language TV and radio (and English-speaking Welsh people generally) would be expected to use the Welsh pronunciation when speaking in English, For example in this BBC Wales news, the newsreaders and the reporter use the correct pronunciation, including the Welsh ll sound and proper Welsh o sound at the end (except when saying "Llandudno's" when it is unavoidable to use the English "ow" sound due to the addition of the English "s" ending to denote the possessive form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=GjVuKwnrySw — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.152.76.179 (talk) 19:06, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I am okay with an English IPA being featured in articles as long as there is one English pronunciation in common use among English speakers e.g. [ˌæbəˈrɪstwɪθ] alongside the Welsh [abɛˈrəstʊɨθ] in the case of Aberystwyth, however, for Llandudno, there doesn't really seem to be one pronunciation in common use among English speakers because as I've explained above, its rather variable compared to the Welsh pronunciation even though this article indicates that Llandudno is pronounced in English as [lænˈdɪdnoʊ] when in fact that is rarely used. I think it would be worth explaining in a footnote in the lead that the English pronunciation is variable and add the examples I've mentioned above because as per WP:MOSPRON, it does mention in the Appropriate use section that English pronunciation should be added before other languages if they are used so I don't know now whether removing the English IPA completely would be a good idea. And we can't really say English pronunciation is wrong because it doesn't have the same rules and phonetic sounds as Welsh not to mention that English speakers don't really have much exposure to Welsh outside Wales so they would ideally use whatever the spelling appears to them, even though the Welsh spelling has a different pronunciation. Broman178 (talk) 19:02, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

English IPA
There are a great deal of English pronunciations, all of which approximate the Welsh pronunciation to varying degrees of accuracy. Why is this one ([lænˈdɪdnoʊ]) chosen as the representative English pronunciation? Surely consensus is needed, and preferably a reliable source. The problem would remain, however, that there is no standard English pronunciation, and any one choice will be inherently arbitrary. Llabbillob (talk) 10:39, 7 May 2024 (UTC)