Talk:Lluís Llach

From 'musical artist' to 'person'
The infoxbox musical artist didn't seem appropriate for the varied career of Llach, and I therefore changed to the general 'person' infobox, and added relevant information from his career in literature and politics.

There is plenty more to add (see article in Catalan), and I hope that others expand this over time. User:HibernicusExul 14:20, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Vandalism
This article has been vandalized by an "eraser" in October 2010. I restored a previous version. 62.167.204.34 (talk) 08:54, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Catalan rather than Spanish
I feel that Llach should be described as a Catalan composer and singer-songwriter, rather than 'Spanish'. Obviously he is a Spanish citizen, but his identity is Catalan (as is made very clear in the rest of the article). It is no insult to the Spanish state to refer to a person as Catalan, any more than it is an insult to the United Kingdom to refer to someone as English, Welsh or Scottish. It is simply a more precise description. AgTigress (talk) 17:19, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * That's fixed now. Rwxrwxrwx (talk) 18:26, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Excellent! Thank you! AgTigress (talk) 21:56, 18 September 2015 (UTC)


 * What is the English wikipedia's policy regarding description of people belonging to minorities? Some days ago I changed Spanish for Catalan in the description of Lluís Llach, but it was undone. The man is, as the same article states "an outspoken advocate of the right to self-determination of Catalonia". I think it woild be both more respectful and more accurate to refer to him as Catalan, which does not mean that he is not a Spanish citizen. --Or8a (talk) 10:44, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

I have updated this article to remove reference to his disputed nationality/identity in the first sentence. The man is clearly a Catalan nationalist and would not describe himself as Spanish. Obviously the man has Spanish citizenship. You cannot describe him objectively as 'Spanish' however given the political situation in Catalonia. I have taken the same approach as in the Catalan wikipedia, which does not address his citizenship/nationality/identity in the first sentence. This is more balanced approach in my view. -- User:HibernicusExul 09:47, 9 July 2022 (UTC)


 * An edit war is starting over the national identity of Lluis Llach.
 * User are merely either editing to 'spanish' citing supposed consensus which doesn't exist on the talk page.
 * Other users are editing to Catalan with reason typo.
 * I've reverted back to neither - and hope that users engage in reaching an acceptable consensus on the talk page. HibernicusExul (talk) 20:13, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I have reviewed the manual of style for biographies, and while it is generally left to consensus to make the exact determination, it is weighed in favour of describing people by their preferred national identity.
 * Lluis Llach self-identities as Catalan and the current consensus on this talk page is to describe him as Catalan.
 * I would suggest we keep the status quo (no national identity referenced) for now, and allow time for others to weight in.
 * But the forming consensus and the weight of the manual of style is to describe him as Catalan.
 * WP:NAMES HibernicusExul (talk) 09:26, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks to User:Tomas Fernando Camargo for working through this issue, and highlighting the compromise options highlighted in the last RfC. Worth noting that the current compromise solutions outlined there are (predictably) not very clear themselves and leave a lot open to interpretation, and leave a lot to the consensus on each individual page. The consensus differs greatly across pages as you can see from Talk:Carles_Puigdemont/Archive_5.

Having said all that, seems that the current general consensus is that the lead section should include:

Catalan from Spain or Spanish from Catalonia

Based on the context of this page, the self-identification of Lluis Llach and the consensus on this talk page, I am editing to 'Catalan from Spain' and would invite anyone thinking otherwise to engage in conversation on this talk page.

--HibernicusExul (talk) 12:05, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:06, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Lluís Llach, by Elisa Cabot.jpg